Curse

Hildi · Apr 25, 2007, 01:09 PM // 13:09

I know that Axes and hammers are best Sundering and swords are vamp., but what about the other mod? Is it always best to have a Fort. mod, or are there better choices?

Also, in general, what should the primary weapon mods be for all the different melee/Ranger/Para weapons? I understand that the build they are running plays into this selection a lot, but what in general is most common?

Mr_Unlucky · Apr 25, 2007, 01:17 PM // 13:17

No. I think sundering is best in every weapon + fortitude ofcourse :P

Div · Apr 25, 2007, 01:26 PM // 13:26

Sundering by far for pve. Vamp does more damage regardless of weapon type, but it often takes too much effort to weapon switch when not fighting.

LightningHell · Apr 25, 2007, 01:34 PM // 13:34

This is glad's arena...not PvE...

Byron · Apr 25, 2007, 03:57 PM // 15:57

In all physical builds ('cept ranger), I tend to run the same setup:

1) Sundering (standard big-critical weapon)
2) Elemental (for swaps against physical AL targets)
3) Build-variant (eg, crippling mod on a crip slash waru)
4) Ranged adren building(waru) -or- energy swap(derv/paragon)

Vamp is not that great, except perhaps on a split. In theory it would be better than sundering if every swing was a hit, but that is never the case. When, as usual, many of your hits are being blocked or missed, a vamp mod hurts you more than the other team.

icedwhitemocha · Apr 25, 2007, 04:04 PM // 16:04

You should have fortitude mods on your weapons for PvP.

For prefixes, you always need an elemental mod and a non-elemental mod. For swords/spears/daggers the non-elemental can be vamp, but sundering shines on about everything else.

For my own related question, I've seen fewer and fewer warriors use vamp weapons in obs mode lately. Is it because a) it gives away the damage type as physical or b) the gw community has reversed its consensus on which mod is better for damage (...again)?

Diddy bow · Apr 25, 2007, 04:38 PM // 16:38

Any wammo can tell you sundering is the best cus of its eliteness. but vamp deos more damage regardless of weapon.

Fortitude is usally the best imo, unlike +5 armor it helps against degen+armor ignoring to whoich is handy and can help counter deep wound and spikes a bit better. Enchantment, if your using enchantments, which your proberlly not as a melle/ranged. and +7 armor vs type if you can be bothered but tbh whats 2 armor as a diffrence anyway?

Seamus Finn · Apr 25, 2007, 04:54 PM // 16:54

There was a long thread recently about th enew view on sundering vs vamp. Basically, some top players argued that it was the unpredictable crit+sunders that causes dangerous spikes that places it higher in teh totem pole than the reliable 3 or 5 damage from vamp(I believe that really daggers are the only weapon I would go for vamp on... if I werent using zealous for some reason. Spears I prefer sundering and bows... poison/cripple strings etc.). Also sundering is less of a hassle, and to be honest, the "damage mods" have an effect that is rather small and swapping around to maximise for vamping seems to be not worth the effort. Fort is basically a must mod for weapons. Sinces there are aspects of spikes that ignore armor(certain spells, deep wound, etc) people like to have hps whenever possible. It's not a terrible idea i suppose to run +armor on a skirmish weapon to swap to and from if it pleases you to do so.

In my opinion, elemental is the new damage mod. Since casters have taken a liking to shields and +armor vs physical sets I think I get more milage out of elementals than even sunderings these days...

Div · Apr 25, 2007, 05:09 PM // 17:09

Elementals are popular now because of the buffed conjure X spells.

Vamp is better for consistent damage pressure, whereas sundering can add some chance and power for spikes.

Blame the Monks · Apr 25, 2007, 07:50 PM // 19:50

IMO, rather than trying to debate if vamp > sunder or not, its better to look at the overall picture. Everyone who is decent swaps regularly. What swaps you bring and how you use them is far more important than sundering vs vamp, imo.

For example, I typically run:

resource building weapon -- zealous or furious
unloading weapon -- vamp or sundering
alternate weapon -- elemental
pulling/energy weapon -- flatbow with +5nrg

The zealous/furious is to keep my energy or adren fuel high. There is no excuse not to have the energy to recast conjure or to have a bstrike when you need it. And you can't put a price on having your rush ready to cancel frenzy on demand. A steady stream of resources to fuel your smart use of skills such as stances, bstrikes, ddaggers, and so on is far more important than incremental damage increases from running vamp/sundering. And even in terms of DPS, I believe having the zealous to fuel skills like frenzy + dash, frenzy + prot strike spam, frenzy + ddagger spam, frenzy + savage slash spam, and so on renders the question of what other mod provides the most pressure over time obsolete. Having the resources to have a permanent 50% damage boost without fear of a spike and while consistently being able to overtake kiters > a 5% damage increase from vamp or w/e, plus you can always use the energy for other more useful things as the situation and bar requires.

During pushes or if my energy is high enough, I swap to my vamp/sundering to increase my chances of scoring a kill. If I notice my crits do lower damage than usual or if I am fighting a war, I swap to elemental. The bow is to pull npcs and to break energy denial.

Ultimately, I don't think the sunder v furious v vamp debate is productive. People just don't win games in GW because one of them does an extra 0.00525% damage over time by using vamp over sundering. What matters is having the tools you need at the right time -- zealous/furious to keep yout appropriate resources high, sunder/vamp to unload, and elemental to switch up your damage type. My personal opinion is smack in the middle of the mainstream (vamp on sword/axe/dagger, sunder on hammer/scythe, and furious on spear) but I don't think vamp v sunder matters much, if at all.

TheOneMephisto · Apr 25, 2007, 11:25 PM // 23:25

Vamp vs Sunder is pretty much personal preference, as they both have their ups and downs.

As people have said, sundering has the advantage of damage compression, while vamp does more damage overall.

In my opinion, it's the big random spikes that kill people, and at the advantage of not giving away damage type and not hurting my team, so I like sundering. However, as Blame the Monks said, it really isn't that important, it's important that you at least bring one of them.

And on certain bars other weapon mods can become valuable. I wouldn't really use crip mod on a cripslash unless I'm splitting, but having a crip mod on a YAA or something can be very very good.

MaaKotka · Apr 26, 2007, 12:01 AM // 00:01

IMO no much reason to bring condition lenghtening mods for flagstand situations, because almost every team has RC and thus most conditions are removed before they last their full duration. On split/gank charachters it is a different story. Although still lenghten cripple is pretty pointles, because it is removed via mending touch on most flaggers/soloers. Anyway it never hurts having lenghten condition swap in your inventory.

BTW is furious worth bringing? As I have understood it doesn't make your adrenal gaining much faster.

Grizmor · Apr 26, 2007, 01:01 AM // 01:01

Vamp is best on all melee weapons with maybe the exception of scythe, where sundering may be an acceptable alternative cue to its high crit range. Sundering is a joke on swords and axes and if you have done the math you would know this. On hammers its okay, but vamp is still superior. The same is true for the scythe, but if you are wanting to roll the dice and are looking for those random sunders that can give you +20 dmg to enhance your spikes you can go for it.

Of course if you are not hitting much due to melee hate then swap out the vamp.

Seamus Finn · Apr 26, 2007, 07:25 AM // 07:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaaKotka

BTW is furious worth bringing? As I have understood it doesn't make your adrenal gaining much faster.

Furious is a useful swap in a few instances. Basically if you are running enraging charge or dragon slash, swapping to furious for those key hits can make a difference.

JR · Apr 26, 2007, 10:39 AM // 10:39

Vampiric is statistically better than Sundering on every weapon. People who have the time and intelligence to do the math themselves know this. The whole 'Sundering can give you bigger numbers on a spike' argument is retarded. Spikes go through on pressured teams.

Vampiric
Zealous
Elemental

Swap as necessary.

I also use a Furious Spear in my shield set for ranged adren building, particularly with Enraging Charge - as (with 13 Strength) you can get 8 adren with one hit if it triggers.

Sophitia Leafblade · Apr 26, 2007, 10:59 AM // 10:59

Damage wise Vampiric is the best mod but the degen is rarely is covered by the hp gain so i prefer to use Sundering. Elemental can be ok with combined with conjures etc. Zealous looks good on paper but i find it more of a hinder than a help and so i avoid it.

ayame ftw · Apr 26, 2007, 11:12 AM // 11:12

People care to much about mods… if u are good u can kill anything
Just watch the Korean teams there warriors prettily never swap weapons
I remember that hammer warrior form evil that always used his rhino hammer….

JR · Apr 26, 2007, 11:18 AM // 11:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by ayame ftw

People care to much about mods… if u are good u can kill anything
Just watch the Korean teams there warriors prettily never swap weapons
I remember that hammer warrior form evil that always used his rhino hammer….

A sentiment I agree with, but it is still ignorant to say Sundering is a superior mod to Vampiric.

Byron · Apr 26, 2007, 03:40 PM // 15:40

Okay, speaking of GvG here:

I think it's already been concluded in several other threads that vampiric and zealous mods are superior under ideal cirumstances. However, when there are snares, blinds, hexes, wards, and prots (as every good team will have defensive measures against physical pressure), the degen from the vampiric mod will hurt the character using it more than it hurts the other team. That is to say, in the very common circumstance of melee hate, a waru with a vamp mod would be pressuring his own monks more with that mod than the mod is pressuring the enemy.

Granted, the effect is often small enough to dismiss, but it is there. Mods don't mean much, imo.

And the same can be said for zealous: if all your hits are going through, then yes, zealous would work great. But that is never ever the case, not at the flagstand anyway. Natural energy regen works better against most builds.

My personal opinion is that neither sundering or vampiric are great mods. I go with sundering seeing it as the less of two evils. Neither one would make any difference on a skilled physical in an effective teambuild, imho.

Blame the Monks · Apr 26, 2007, 06:06 PM // 18:06

If your warriors struggle that much, you need to rethink your build, not your weapon swaps.