Curse

Cass · Apr 02, 2007, 12:40 PM // 12:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by elektra_lucia

Going around in circles here. I've already made my point on this.

I've never been in a team (unless I've personally asked for aegis to be up) where the monks have put a yellow arrow on everything. The times I have asked for aegis to be up for the yellow arrows and looked at it going down. The spike wasn't anywhere near as perfect as one might assume.

For the first two spikes I disagree. Plus the monks will be high on energy to save them.

Repeat - play monk a bit. Check what your idea of perfect is. I think we're talking about two seperate things.

The use of Aegis against non-physical spikes is a mistake in disguise, in my opinion. It may save you against bad teams that disenchant whenever a yellow arrow is present, agreed. But it will be an unacceptable drain of energy and time against a good team that will ignore it. A good team keeps an eye on the target for relevant enchant animations and/or on the prot monk for recent casts. I also agree that such teams are rare. In essence, however, you are counting on the weakness of the opponent.

The whole discussion about spikes being uninfusable is somewhat ridiculous. In my experience, by far the most common reason for failing to catch a spike is simply game lag. GW lags so much for pretty much everyone (this is no 30ms consistent ping PFS) that perfect timing on either side has a large margin of error/luck. Sometimes you time it right, but the game doesn't feel like actually doing it. 10 seconds later, the game suddenly responds again within 10 ms.

If there is a problem with spike teams it is that your team fails to kill them within a reasonable amount of time. The chance of being unlucky and suffering spike deaths aside, the main problem is that a good spike build will spike so often and so hard that you run out of energy eventually. A spike is relatively costly to counter, even if you use spirit bond/prot spirit well. (To exempt the argument that a perfect monk can single-handedly stop most spikes with casting just one of those: this cannot be done without over-protting, as there is some uncertainty as to who will be spiked. If there is none, their caller gives it away like a noob and all your teammates are positioned like the numbers on a clock, grats.)
Of course, there are various ways of lengthening the match like a good use of channeling, but you risk disenchants due to being a likely match for "c". A lengthy match favors the spike team though as being lucky makes them kill, and you being lucky only saves someone.

elektra_lucia · Apr 02, 2007, 01:25 PM // 13:25

The bit about the energy - well, I did that with glyph. As I wasn't likely to cast spirit bond twice in the time I was using glyph. It didn't cause me much trouble.

I'm surprised they don't show a ping chart of every player per match. It wouldn't be hard to impliment.

0.188 Average on that sheep thing. Then again, it's not like infusing or protting. You have to move your mouse...

Wilhelm · Apr 02, 2007, 01:40 PM // 13:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cass

A lengthy match favors the spike team though as being lucky makes them kill, and you being lucky only saves someone.

I'd have to disagree, only because any lengthy matches against a pure spike team results in them running around after one of their spikers has dropped. And we all know spike teams can't kill and heal at the same time.

.166 on the sheep thing lol

infymys · Apr 02, 2007, 01:53 PM // 13:53

Choking gas ftw.

Cass · Apr 02, 2007, 01:55 PM // 13:55

Never underestimate your enemy.

.1754 while answering the door.

erk · Apr 03, 2007, 03:37 AM // 03:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by elektra_lucia

I
...
Do you PVP at all? If this phrase was relating to PVE can you suggest a place where soul reaping is important in another part of the game and the skill bar (all 8 skills) you'd be using? Just be interested to see if you thought of soul reaping as the only energy management needed. Which seems a bit unfair, considering a monk has none (unless you use skills).

Yes, I pretty much only PvP every day, I often like to run a Reapers Mark/curses Necro in TA or RA, did a glad point a couple of hours ago with a spirit spamming Rit on my team and I was often low on energy, getting back 6-7 energy off a spirt is nice in theory, but there are just not enough of them dying to keep up with the demand. I don't run anything higher than a 10 energy requirement on the bar.

The point I was making is you might nerf TA/RA energy as a side effect of your HA requirements.

Llint · Apr 03, 2007, 08:24 AM // 08:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by erk

Yes, I pretty much only PvP every day, I often like to run a Reapers Mark/curses Necro in TA or RA, did a glad point a couple of hours ago with a spirit spamming Rit on my team and I was often low on energy, getting back 6-7 energy off a spirt is nice in theory, but there are just not enough of them dying to keep up with the demand. I don't run anything higher than a 10 energy requirement on the bar.

The point I was making is you might nerf TA/RA energy as a side effect of your HA requirements.

How can you be low on energy with a spirit spamming rit? How many spirits was this guy running? 2?

baaba · Apr 03, 2007, 08:44 AM // 08:44

Right now the Meta is based on "Soul Reaping". Anet needs to fix it fast.

In order to kill the team, you need to kill most of the defensive spirits first but if you do then you are just giving free energy to the Necro to put up more spirits or other skills.

Not only that, you are already wasting your time to kill spirits while your backline is losing energy fast trying to heal everyone.

If you want to kill the spirit spammer, you have to go so far that you are likely to be overextended and get spiked.

You don't want to bring shut down in your build because in Kill Count, it is useless and will not give you point. You are just helping the third team winning.

Everyone is now running R/W or R/D with Splinter Weapon, OoA Necro, and spirit spammer that gives the Necro almost unlimited energy to spam skills like OoA and healing. It is the new FoTM.

***Fix Soul Reaping FTW***

elektra_lucia · Apr 03, 2007, 09:12 AM // 09:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by erk

Yes, I pretty much only PvP every day, I often like to run a Reapers Mark/curses Necro in TA or RA, did a glad point a couple of hours ago with a spirit spamming Rit on my team and I was often low on energy, getting back 6-7 energy off a spirt is nice in theory, but there are just not enough of them dying to keep up with the demand. I don't run anything higher than a 10 energy requirement on the bar.

The point I was making is you might nerf TA/RA energy as a side effect of your HA requirements.

I'm going to be awfully blunt here and say, I really do NOT care what you found 'nice'. I asked a question. Your attempt at answering has been pathetic. Now may you like to answer?

Plus, you're hexing four people. With other e-management like GoLe. How the hell can you be low on energy? Or maybe, you avoided the question because your bar sucked, had no other energy manegement?

RA - So ugh, let's not nerf the game because you might get lucky and join a team with a RT who spams two spirits. Heaven forbid you don't find enough energy to hex a whopping... One... Two... Three... Four people!

Quote:

Everyone is now running R/W or R/D with Splinter Weapon, OoA Necro, and spirit spammer that gives the Necro almost unlimited energy to spam skills like OoA and healing. It is the new FoTM.

I'm not running that and I didn't have much difficulty winning halls yesturday :s.

Not everyone are lamers you know

.

baaba · Apr 03, 2007, 03:32 PM // 15:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by elektra_lucia

Not everyone are lamers you know

.

Not everyone but MOST are. Sadly but so true.

I don't blame them though. It takes whatever to win but it is very funny when they think they are leet which really make me laugh.

Mr Jazzy · Apr 03, 2007, 09:54 PM // 21:54

I think you are taking this way too dramatically. Not every build that is holding halls right now is running this build you speak of. Sure, alot of noobs may run this build for some easy fame against lesser groups, but people are always running gimmicks.

Give it a little time.

And to keep the discussion flowing, Soul Reaping is NOT broken!!!!

(flame me )

God Apprentice · Apr 04, 2007, 11:42 AM // 11:42

Noobs run Necro heals cause....they can't monk

>

Nadia Roark · Apr 04, 2007, 12:00 PM // 12:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patccmoi

Honestly, the one thing that annoys me the most in HA is SR abuse. You can't actually pressure efficiently through N/Mos and N/Rts that have infinite energy to throw 300 heals nearly instantly every 2s and can Heal Party for 100 in 1s at will. So you kinda have to spike, and it gets lame.

I know this is from page one (and I assume the SR discussion has continued well past page one) but QFT nonetheless. If they do end up nerfing soul reaping I'll be happy: but they should have done this a year ago. I've been bitching about SR from spirits/minions for months.

Necros should not be better monks than monks.

Swift Thief · Apr 04, 2007, 08:13 PM // 20:13

So, you are saying people with low rank are noobs? I have 28 fame and I do quite well in HA.

Gimme Money Plzkthx · Apr 04, 2007, 08:47 PM // 20:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swift Thief

So, you are saying people with low rank are noobs? I have 28 fame and I do quite well in HA.

Right, that's why you have 28 fame.

the_jos · Apr 04, 2007, 10:19 PM // 22:19

Quote:

Noobs run Necro heals cause....they can't monk

Quote:

Necros should not be better monks than monks.

I've played N/Mo (not HB) in GvG a couple of times.
Does that mean I can't monk?
Or that my necro monk is better than my regular monk?

No and no.
I can monk. It's one of my two primary roles in PvP.
But I can also run it quite effective on other primary professions.
It's also not better, but in the several team builds, it was working fine.

So why take N/Mo?
Essentially, it's the same reason as taking Mo/Me or Mo/E.
Other professions offer better E-management than DF.
So you take E-management of those other professions.

In the end (not considering spiritway) it's the skill of the person playing monk and the teambuild, and not the primary profession that makes the difference between a good monk and a bad one. Low energy professions being the exception.

ZenRgy · Apr 05, 2007, 12:00 AM // 00:00

N/Mo's are only really used in spiritway or spike builds, hence usually they have unlimited energy - meanings they can spam their bar and it won't make much of a difference.

Just like the way everyone could monk before energizing finale was nerfed.

Juno Onuj · Apr 05, 2007, 05:18 AM // 05:18

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[2] Bootlegger - Take It! - 1961 Viva Books

[3] Your guide to The Current HA Meta - Issue 98 - T36 Publishing

Patccmoi · Apr 05, 2007, 05:34 AM // 05:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juno Onuj

snip

That made me lol. Seems like a fun text to copy-paste in forums and just changing the subject =p

erk · Apr 05, 2007, 06:11 AM // 06:11

The Devs have seen fit to re-balance the Necro in the coming update:

http://www.guild-hall.net/forum/showthread.php?t=45234

Quote:

Necromancer:
- Animate Bone Horror: decreased Energy cost to 10.
- Animate Vampiric Horror: decreased Energy cost to 15.
- Enfeebling Touch: decreased recharge time to 5 seconds.
- Mark of Fury: decreased Energy cost to 5.
- Mark of Subversion: changed duration to 6 seconds.
- Poisoned Heart: decreased Energy cost to 5, decreased recharge time to 12 seconds.
- Price of Failure: increased recharge time to 20 seconds.
- Reckless Haste: increased Energy cost to 15.
- Soul Reaping: now only provides Energy at a maximum rate of once every 5 seconds.

Soul Reaping's synergy with Spirits and minions opened up a lot of builds that simply never ran out of power. Spirits still provide half Energy, and with Soul Reaping's Energy gain limited, a player death will now provide more net Energy, which we believe will help Soul Reaping get closer to its intended function. Mark of Fury was strictly inferior to Dark Fury, so we reduced the cost of Mark of Fury in hopes that this improves its playability. Mark of Subversion was changed to match the duration of Diversion, Shame, Mistrust, and Guilt, which keeps these one-time Hexes consistent with one another. Reckless Haste had its cost increased, and Price of Failure received a duration decrease to make it more difficult to keep these powerful Hexes on a large number of people. Poisoned Heart became cheaper and now recharges faster for some fun, creative play, and Enfeebling Touch has been improved so that it's more in line with other applications of Weakness.