Curse

phoenixtech · Apr 27, 2007, 02:42 AM // 02:42

I posted this at sardelc but I think I can prob get better feedback from here, so please let me know what you think.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10147113

Lord Natural · Apr 27, 2007, 06:56 AM // 06:56

The difficulty of PvE is never radically effected by skill balancing, so why even take it into account when looking into PvP balance issues. Pretty much any build can get the job done in PvE, as best shown by the effectiveness of henchman with their 5 skill/no rune bars. I guess that can seem a little uncaring if you're primarily a PvE'er, but the fact is imbalances have much more of an effect on PvP than on PvE.

Who really cares if a skill is imbalanced in PvE? The AI doesn't complain. It makes no difference to me if Joe Farmer is using an uber wtfpwn build to make 500k an hour. Balance the game with PvP in mind and PvE will easily adapt.

phoenixtech · Apr 28, 2007, 01:33 AM // 01:33

That's my point, it makes no difference to me if farmer joe is making 500k either, which is why they should have these PVE only mods that will free up Izzy from having to deal with trying to balance skills and having to think about its effect on the PVE side.

While people like us can adapt easily to any nerfs and still handle PVE, the MAJORITY of ANET's customers that provides the INCOME to pay for Izzy's salary can't. They are casual gamers that WILL complain if you make the slightest adjustments ie: Soul Reaping nerf.

Patccmoi · Apr 28, 2007, 01:39 AM // 01:39

They're adding PvE only-skill to help alleviate the problem and give PvErs skills that they know won't be nerfed for PvP reasons. I think that's a good idea and i'd suggest to see how this works out before trying to come up with some other original idea (and personally i just don't like yours at all cause it leads to encouraging gear over player skill because then your gear will have a significant impact on your efficiency).

phoenixtech · Apr 28, 2007, 02:23 AM // 02:23

Grind over Skill will only happen if the item drops are extremely rare. If you make the items drop obtainable for even casual players (say something like sup vigor rate). It will only make the game more interesting and increase PVE replay value. Remember, we are still at 8 skills maximum, having new PVE only skills won't change that. Having gears that provide different effects will increase the different varieties of ways to kill monsters exponentially, and I personally love to think up new ways to play PVE.

Plus, how many PVE-only skills are they adding? Last I heard they are adding a total of 200 skills and you'd think atmost half of those will be PVE-only. That gives you only a handful of PVE-only skills per class. Plus the way ANET is currently implementing PVE-skills doesn't exactly excite me much. Light bringer's gaze is kind of a grind for LB points, so the whole skill vs grind thing is already eroding away anyways. So instead of grinding for better equipment I grind for a higher title to increase my efficiency? Look at LB gaze, lockpicks, etc... the general direction is to add a bit of grind into the game. A bit of grind keeps people interested, not to mention having random weapon mods drop makes for more "addictive" play, which will ultimately lead to better sales of GW2. Remember, GW2 isn't coming out for a while, and GW has to keep it's customers happy until GW2 is out.

Right now you kill a monster and hope for a new pretty item that you can use to kill the next monster pretty much the exact same way with. With the new system you can kill a monster and hope for a shiny new mod to slap on to your existing items to kill the next monster differently with. Like I said in the other post, you have to have played Diablo to know what I'm talking about.

Update: Just saw what birthday cupcakes do, so much for grind over skill.

Div · Apr 30, 2007, 03:17 PM // 15:17

Sup vigor rate is...really low. I don't think I've EVER had a sup vigor drop for me besides 1 from the HoH chest.

The problem with that system is that if you make it really easily obtainable, then it wouldn't exactly promote more pve replayability (outside of title acquisition) since it's so easy to get them. If you make it hard to obtain, then it promotes grind > skill.

Great idea in general, but it doesn't exactly apply perfectly to GW and wouldn't fix any problems.

And how would adding weapons in help with skill balance? I don't see the connection...if they adjust the weapon mods after balancing skills, say from a max of 10% IAS to 12% IAS, don't the people who have those 10% weapons get screwed over? What if something's reduced from +30 to +25? Do all the items in your inventory automatically scale, and how's that going to work? For example, they change it from max 20% to 10%, and you have a 19% weapon. After the scale, it becomes 9.5%, rounded to 10%. All of a sudden you have the new "perfect" weapon. Any further scaling will result in you having the perfect weapon still.

phoenixtech · May 01, 2007, 02:05 AM // 02:05

ANET can adjust stuff very easily, just like how some of the old 10% sundering turned into 20% and HOD helms hex duration all got changed to 20% or whatever it is now. It doesn't really matter though, alot of people have been "screwed" over by adjustments in the current system I don't see how that's really so vital.

It helps PVP skill balance, the reasoning was explained in the original post I think.

Div · May 01, 2007, 08:16 AM // 08:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by phoenixtech

ANET can adjust stuff very easily, just like how some of the old 10% sundering turned into 20% and HOD helms hex duration all got changed to 20% or whatever it is now. It doesn't really matter though, alot of people have been "screwed" over by adjustments in the current system I don't see how that's really so vital.

It helps PVP skill balance, the reasoning was explained in the original post I think.

And remember how all the people whined how their 100k+XX ecto sword with uber 10/10 sundering mod all of a sudden is worth 5 less ectos because the mod sucks? Imagine if Anet did a change like that every skill balance (maybe, every 2 weeks). And when it's reduced from 20 to 10, all the pre-nerf items will sell for insanely high prices, until anet decides to change it back from 10 to 20 again. Sure, people were screwed over by the sundering change, but that's only once, not getting screwed on a couple hundred ectos worth of mods every other week.

Yichi · May 01, 2007, 08:22 AM // 08:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by phoenixtech

While people like us can adapt easily to any nerfs and still handle PVE, the MAJORITY of ANET's customers that provides the INCOME to pay for Izzy's salary can't. They are casual gamers that WILL complain if you make the slightest adjustments ie: Soul Reaping nerf.

So because the majority is bad at the game, means that it requires a total overhaul of somethign that can be completed with the starter skills youre given? Honestly, if i didnt hate PVE and find it so long and tedious, i could make a warrior, use the frenzy and heal sig they give you as a starter warrior, grab hench, and beat prophecies, factions, and nightfall. its kind of completely rediculous that someone cant adapt to a game that could be done as easily with a monkey mashing a keyboard.

phoenixtech · May 02, 2007, 02:23 AM // 02:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

And remember how all the people whined how their 100k+XX ecto sword with uber 10/10 sundering mod all of a sudden is worth 5 less ectos because the mod sucks? Imagine if Anet did a change like that every skill balance (maybe, every 2 weeks). And when it's reduced from 20 to 10, all the pre-nerf items will sell for insanely high prices, until anet decides to change it back from 10 to 20 again. Sure, people were screwed over by the sundering change, but that's only once, not getting screwed on a couple hundred ectos worth of mods every other week.

Where are you getting weekly adjustments from? I'm not even sure we are talking about the same thing anymore. There would only be ONE adjustment period where ANET releases new "PVE-only" weapon mods.

Also, where are you getting this idea that when ANET decides to change something they can't do it across the board instead of this pre-nerf item business, have you seen any pre-nerf HOD hats on sale anywhere that gives -50% less hex duration?

Wasteland Squidget · May 02, 2007, 02:52 AM // 02:52

They're pretty much doing this with GW: EOTN, except they're releasing PvE-only skills instead of PvE-only item mods.

phoenixtech · May 03, 2007, 06:34 AM // 06:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wasteland Squidget

They're pretty much doing this with GW: EOTN, except they're releasing PvE-only skills instead of PvE-only item mods.

Yes, I know, please read my response to Patccmoi