Curse

IMMORTAlMITCH · Apr 09, 2007, 01:30 AM // 01:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sol Constituent

the guild was 'forlorn savior'...

This would explain why you guys managed to score kills

Yichi · Apr 09, 2007, 08:39 AM // 08:39

the rating pairing will be even more off now since there is only a +4/-4 cap on ladder rating gain. so yes unfortunately your rank 7k guild will hit r100+ guilds occasionally. back when the rating gain was higher, it wouldnt happen as often.

and yes JR is correct. you will learn far more from fighting a better team than you are, rather than fighting another hero team or a guild that is new to gvg thats under r1000

Relambrien · Apr 09, 2007, 12:37 PM // 12:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by MistressYichi

the rating pairing will be even more off now since there is only a +4/-4 cap on ladder rating gain. so yes unfortunately your rank 7k guild will hit r100+ guilds occasionally. back when the rating gain was higher, it wouldnt happen as often.

and yes JR is correct. you will learn far more from fighting a better team than you are, rather than fighting another hero team or a guild that is new to gvg thats under r1000

I heard some time ago that vD lost to a rank 1k+ guild and got a -6, which shouldn't happen with k=5 (current rating change system). Anyone care to confirm/deny? If true, then we really aren't at k=5.

Thom Bangalter · Apr 09, 2007, 07:06 PM // 19:06

I thought it was k=7.

Thomas.knbk · Apr 09, 2007, 07:13 PM // 19:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom Bangalter

I thought it was k=7.

The only thing I've ever heard is K=5

InfernalSuffering · May 02, 2007, 03:42 AM // 03:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by DutchSmurf

As rank 2000+ guild, all you learn from fighting against a top 100 guild is that the top 100 guild is a lot better. And not more then that. Just like when some pro-fighter beats on a little child, you tell me what the little child learns there.

I remember starting to get into gvging and playing teams that were so ridiculously better then us that the above quote is absolutely true. What can you learn from them if your monks both get spiked down in 3 seconds? If you are retreating to your base at the 1 minute mark? Your elementalist has yet to get a skill off before he is down to half health? At the worse level of gvgs the game moves a lot slower (I remember our strat in a 5k guild was to "let them come into our base" so we could fight with our NPCs...we won a lot that way) and when a guild with experienced players comes in knowing the millisecond they should each cast their skills + the help of ventrilo or teamspeak = gg. Most lower level guilds dont have either of these skills or accomadations and the only skill they see before they die is [skill]Frenzy[/skill] and a good view of the opposoing warriors tormented shields when they walk across their dead bodies to the assault the guild lord.

Farin · May 02, 2007, 04:25 AM // 04:25

I lol'd at the frenzy pic.

I guess this is true to a certain extent. At least after you lose you can go obs and see what they did that you got wtfpwnt.

Bankai · May 02, 2007, 09:13 AM // 09:13

As a monk, you learn a lot from playing higher-ranked opponents that know when to activate [skill]frenzy[/skill], know when to attack, know when to over-extend, etc. They learn you how to pre-prot, the most important skill of a monk.

And they make you kite. Lvl 1k+ just shout at you for 'being a pussy' when you kite.

Patrograd · May 02, 2007, 01:13 PM // 13:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by InfernalSuffering

What can you learn from them if your monks both get spiked down in 3 seconds?

Learn to quickly spike opposing monks? Get your monks to learn how to kite? To be honest, one of the things you really notice when playing low ranked teams is that monks tend to stand around and let you rage them.

Quote:

At the worse level of gvgs the game moves a lot slower

And so you learn to play slowly, which is why you get your faces smashed by every semi decent team in the world who are playing so much faster than you

Quote:

the only skill they see before they die is [skill]Frenzy[/skill] and a good view of the opposoing warriors tormented shields when they walk across their dead bodies to the assault the guild lord.

Do the warriors then learn that frenzying more is good and PVE toons on warriors look cool?

I agree totally with JR and others (we are actually having this debate in our guild at the moment, I argue that we need to occasionally farm rating so we can play balanced against better teams, others argue that such defeats to better teams are pointless - luckily I am guild leader so i win

), you learn from playing people better than you and observing why it is that they are better than you. Almost by definition, your peers have nothing to teach you, you are equal to them. They can never properly push you, and only by being really pushed do you get better. Often, you only play as well as you need to.

Now of course, if you dont actually *try* to learn from these defeats then it can be a pretty crushing experience, but go into it with your eyes open, determined to learn and observe movement, positioning and skill usage in obs mode afterwards (or even during the long periods you will have of lying dead on the ground) then you can learn more from one game against a top 100 team than you can in a month of playing against retarded players and retarded builds at rank 2k+

Some people of course arent actually all that interested in learning (the ubiquitous "play for fun" brigade), but to be honest they need to just take the defeat on the chin and get onto the next game with less crying imo.

Blame the Monks · May 02, 2007, 02:14 PM // 14:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Relambrien

I heard some time ago that vD lost to a rank 1k+ guild and got a -6, which shouldn't happen with k=5 (current rating change system). Anyone care to confirm/deny? If true, then we really aren't at k=5.

I am certain it is k=5. In cow, we had a stretch for about a month where we were so far ahead of everyone else in the game we got +1 for every win and -4 for every loss, even against other top 20 teams. In terms of rating, there was no difference between playing a top 20 and a rank 6k+ for us because we had a ~250 rating lead on everyone. And regardless, we never took below a -4, even tho we lost to bad teams at least a couple of times (I don't remember our worst loss, but I know cow has lost to r300 teams before).

Wish Swiftdeath · May 02, 2007, 02:49 PM // 14:49

hmm i was lucky to guest for some guilds around 600/700 mark so i learnt a bit there. Never really found proper guilds that do gvg alot, they mostly give up after a while which sucks...

Div · May 02, 2007, 03:17 PM // 15:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wish Swiftdeath

hmm i was lucky to guest for some guilds around 600/700 mark so i learnt a bit there. Never really found proper guilds that do gvg alot, they mostly give up after a while which sucks...

Yeah, most pve guilds that want to "try out pvp" operate on a "we play for fun" policy and let people bring riposte tanks, nukers, and healing breeze monks into gvgs. Then they draw a rank 300 guild, get smashed in the face in about 4 minutes, and whine about how Anet is unfair in matching them against someone that good. Most guilds don't take the time to learn from their mistakes and look at why they lost. After all, where's the fun in analyzing everything? It's no fun to have to work hard to get better.

People blame the pvp community for being too elitist. That may be true to an extent, but if the lesser skilled people aren't willing to work to get better, of course they're going to be looked down upon.

Thomas.knbk · May 02, 2007, 03:28 PM // 15:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

People blame the pvp community for being too elitist.

That was always kind of funny. They try to make a game all about skill, and then some people turn out to be a lot better than others? no wai!

Wish Swiftdeath · May 02, 2007, 04:00 PM // 16:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

Yeah, most pve guilds that want to "try out pvp" operate on a "we play for fun" policy and let people bring riposte tanks, nukers, and healing breeze monks into gvgs. Then they draw a rank 300 guild, get smashed in the face in about 4 minutes, and whine about how Anet is unfair in matching them against someone that good. Most guilds don't take the time to learn from their mistakes and look at why they lost. After all, where's the fun in analyzing everything? It's no fun to have to work hard to get better.

People blame the pvp community for being too elitist. That may be true to an extent, but if the lesser skilled people aren't willing to work to get better, of course they're going to be looked down upon.

they lost like 4 out of 5 and i guested 6 games and we won 3 of them

so they werent total noobs :P

did get owned by rank 15 guild tho, as a monk i had 60dp after about 10 mins lol and our base was getting owned...

deadmonkey4u · May 02, 2007, 05:13 PM // 17:13

Well I trust their system is for the best and they try to get you matched as evenly as possible within a reasonable time frame. We did hit a rank 8900 guild at 131 a while back.

Cass · May 04, 2007, 08:18 AM // 08:18

The poor OP runs GvG with 4 heroes and you guys are chastizing him for not learning from a crushing defeat. Priceless.

'Perhaps' the learning process would be facilitated by recruiting a few more players.