Curse

Patccmoi · Apr 10, 2007, 03:15 AM // 03:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gimme Money Plzkthx

Then what's the third heal?

Words of Comfort's pretty good.

Personally i like 4 heals on LoD infuse though, i usually use Words of Comfort and Dwayna's Kiss, and give him Draw Conditions (Words acts as a better self-heal and Draw for the RC). Against hex teams Dwayna's Kiss can help soooo much against the degen, and also to throw big heals for cheap on the ghostly if he gets heavily protted.

Not to get too deeply into this thread that i do consider kinda laughable too, but the biggest irony in there is people who kept saying how N/Mo healers are skill less and for newbs (which i kinda agree) and then say that GOOD monks use Channeling... which basically lets you play your monk like a N/Mo healer in HA cause Channeling gives you nearly infinite energy. I do consider that Channeling > GoLE IN GENERAL in HA (still depends a bit on team setup and GoLE is superior in kill count, though usually fights are so short in kill count that you hardly run out of energy and if you do just fall back), but it has nothing to do with good or bad monks... it's cause HA makes positioning nearly meaningless in the way it's designed and you can afford to have your monks in the frontline. But saying that 'monks with channeling are better' more looks to me like 'monks with channeling don't actually need to be very good because one of the biggest challenge of monks, emanagement, is suddenly meaningless and you can overheal like crazy cause you have the energy for it'.

Gimme Money Plzkthx · Apr 10, 2007, 03:19 AM // 03:19

If it wins, does it matter? The debate isn't which takes more skill, it is which is better. It takes more skill/communication to channel properly than n/mo spirit spam. Also QFT on the part about killcount fight times and positioning, I'm just too lazy to actually quote it.

Konqq · Apr 10, 2007, 03:51 AM // 03:51

I'm getting so sick of this 'positioning' crap. Have you been to HA lately? There is some positioning sure, mostly in kill count, but in a majority of the matches, it doesn't matter where you are, they can access you easily. The only place you can hide is way out of range of your team... and you're not gonna do much for them there.

The arguement that GoLE is better because it lets you stay out of range is so irrelivant. This isn't GvG here. Frontline and backline are not finite things. Its just a blur most of the time.

GoLE does not give you enough energy against high pressure teams. I got killed earlier by two hammer warriors after them bashing on me for about 20 seconds (water ele with snares too). I didn't get one SoD from the prot monk the entire time, and his excuse was no energy. I very rarely run out of energy with channeling and I rarely die with *good* prot monks.

All this GoLE crap forces the prot monks to be way more careful with their energy, and preprotting is almost a thing of the past. I've preprotted with seed faster than prot monks with prot spirit (yes omg I still run seed). Anyone saying that it gives the monks way more time to preprot... how are they gonna preprot without energy?

Thing is, channeling is plenty of energy when you actually need it. Do you need energy for running around on kill count? No.. you should have full energy when you put up that first aegis for the battle, and you should have enough energy for the 20 seconds the battle is on even without channeling.

So in my opinion, positioning is a lame arguement for GoLE, and so is the 'its better on kill count' arguement.

gasmaskman · Apr 10, 2007, 03:51 AM // 03:51

Any decent monk knows that Healing Touch on an infuse is horrible, and so is Orison.

Dwayna's and WoC are the only heals, which include LoD and infuse. The rest is either dismiss/draw condition(s), hex breaker, holy veil, purge signet, channeling, reversal, or something else.

Llint · Apr 10, 2007, 01:09 PM // 13:09

I usually dont run three monks in HA, unless I'm pugging. And if I'm pugging, I honestly dont care. In any serious team, we do fine running two monks. We usually run balanced characters, that well... Can be defensive or offensive. We don't run this BoA crap. Also, they usually know how to kite. In a team that kites, energy shouldn't be a problem unless something you can't fix happens ( IE lag, rubberbanding etc etc ). I run gole every time because I expect my team to be able to understand kiting.

Also Kongg, if you're other prot monk was a SoD and he didn't preprot you, then I cant really say your argument means anything considering if he did preprot you, and they had no enchant removal, you never would have died. Considering that by the time SoD ends, you gain back all the energy you lost and are able to cast it again.

Badboy Thrasher · Apr 10, 2007, 08:49 PM // 20:49

I usually run chanelling on 5energy builds, such as inuse/heal (glyph before infuse = gg) but used it more frequent before the nerf in builds with more high-cost spells...

MaaKotka · Apr 10, 2007, 10:06 PM // 22:06

There is lots of laughable arguments in this thread and I thought a while whether to post here or not. I won't say anything about positioning because those who don't know its huge emanagemen potential seem to ignore every piece of advise they are given here. Also if you actually ever think using skill like aegis seriously without enchantment set, you are a bad guildwars player. End of story. (For those who might listen something I meant +20% longer enchantments.)

I would say that channeling is perhaps better for ha than gole, but I play very little ha nowadays. Anyway to the thread starter who asked why he sees most gole monks to be worse than channeling monks. Channeling works pretty good with a bad monk. If you don't know how to kite or are bad at it, channeling lets you to spam skills and gole doesn't. To be succesful with gole you have to know some "advanced" tactics while monking. You have to know when to cast and what skills for not to waste that energy. Channeling lets you to spam skills like no tomorrow even when you are so bad monk, that you don't even know what kiting is. And when an average ha monk isn't very good, when you watch ha monks, it seems that most gole monks are worse than channeling. Gole is easier to use at full potential than channeling, but channeling works better with a bad monk. This gives you the feeling that an average gole monk is worse than channeling monk.

Sry for a bad english and grammar.

kanaxais_scythe · Apr 10, 2007, 11:06 PM // 23:06

I like to stay mobile so I use GoLE. CHannelling restricts movement to near enemies so you can get at least a +3 return whenever you cast. In most of my builds I ise alot of 5 energy spells and only a couple higher. So using careful casting I am able to not worry too much about energy and use glyph for th ebig spells. If my energy gets low I temporarily switch to high energy set and then use glyph before switching to my normal set. That way when I switch there is some energy built back up.

Konqq · Apr 10, 2007, 11:34 PM // 23:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Llint

Also Kongg, if you're other prot monk was a SoD and he didn't preprot you, then I cant really say your argument means anything considering if he did preprot you, and they had no enchant removal, you never would have died. Considering that by the time SoD ends, you gain back all the energy you lost and are able to cast it again.

My arguement doesn't hold water because if he had had energy I wouldn't have died? <-- Insert logic here please.

The point is that yeah, if he had protted me I wouldn't have died... but he had no energy against a heavy melee team against which prot monks need a lot of energy. Reason? Well in my opinion (clearly) it's because he was using GoLE instead of channeling.

Oh, and its Konqq.

Gimme Money Plzkthx · Apr 10, 2007, 11:50 PM // 23:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaaKotka

There is lots of laughable arguments in this thread and I thought a while whether to post here or not. I won't say anything about positioning because those who don't know its huge emanagemen potential seem to ignore every piece of advise they are given here. Also if you actually ever think using skill like aegis seriously without enchantment set, you are a bad guildwars player. End of story. (For those who might listen something I meant +20% longer enchantments.)

I would say that channeling is perhaps better for ha than gole, but I play very little ha nowadays. Anyway to the thread starter who asked why he sees most gole monks to be worse than channeling monks. Channeling works pretty good with a bad monk. If you don't know how to kite or are bad at it, channeling lets you to spam skills and gole doesn't. To be succesful with gole you have to know some "advanced" tactics while monking. You have to know when to cast and what skills for not to waste that energy. Channeling lets you to spam skills like no tomorrow even when you are so bad monk, that you don't even know what kiting is. And when an average ha monk isn't very good, when you watch ha monks, it seems that most gole monks are worse than channeling. Gole is easier to use at full potential than channeling, but channeling works better with a bad monk. This gives you the feeling that an average gole monk is worse than channeling monk.

Sry for a bad english and grammar.

1. You can kite while using channeling
2. According to all the people who make it seem impossibly hard to stay alive using channeling, channeling is super-hard to use.
3. The issue is not which is the better monk, the issue is who keeps his team alive longer. There is nothing wrong with "spamming" skills if your team is staying alive, whereas if you weren't spamming, you would be dead.

deadmonkey4u · Apr 11, 2007, 12:07 AM // 00:07

When it comes to Ha channeling is fair game. Yes it can be stripped and theirs apostasy in some cases but Ha is alot more clustered then gvg tends to be and channelings effectiveness goes up substantially.

Nadia Roark · Apr 11, 2007, 01:25 AM // 01:25

I haven't been out there in probably 5 or 6 days so I don't know what people are running right now, but for me the issue with channeling had less to do with positioning (especially on maps like UW and Burial where it pretty much doesn't matter anyway, as long as you stay out of chokes) and more to do with the fact that HA was an AoE clusterf*ck (wts forum filter) for a while there. It seemed like every time I would find a decent well, they'd flush me out with AoE.

Living Parasite · Apr 11, 2007, 03:27 AM // 03:27

It's still like that except that it also has Invoke Lightning.

MaaKotka · Apr 11, 2007, 06:31 AM // 06:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gimme Money Plzkthx

1. You can kite while using channeling
2. According to all the people who make it seem impossibly hard to stay alive using channeling, channeling is super-hard to use.
3. The issue is not which is the better monk, the issue is who keeps his team alive longer. There is nothing wrong with "spamming" skills if your team is staying alive, whereas if you weren't spamming, you would be dead.

1. I never said you couldn't kite when using channeling. I said it works better than gole when you don't kite.
2. I never said it is hard to stay alive using channeling. I think it is easier than with gole. With gole you actually have to think what skills you use and when.
3. I don't actually care if skill spamming channeling monk is good enough for you or not. For me when playing anywhere I want good monks with me. I don't want monk who can play desently even if he would be actually bad because at some point he will make some bad mistake what good monk wouldn't have done.

And before anyone makes wrong assumptions again, I never said channeling monks are bad. I said channeling works with bad monks too where gole won't work and that is what makes the feeling all channeling monks are better than gole monks where actually they are at same level.

OneArmedScissor · Apr 11, 2007, 08:09 AM // 08:09

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned yet or not...
But people seem to be forgetting about the benefits of using channeling against a spirit way team. If the other team has roughly 10~ spirits up in an area and you run in, cast an RoF, and boom! +5 energy.

Using channeling against Spirit teams is great.

jana_the_stranger · Apr 11, 2007, 01:09 PM // 13:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneArmedScissor

Using channeling against Spirit teams is great.

just kill there spirits, its even greather

TMWNN · Apr 11, 2007, 02:56 PM // 14:56

I can't see why you wouldnt use chanelling in ha really, as mentioned earlier its easy infinite energy that let you easily maintain prot spirit and gaurdian on yourself which is enough pressure reduction to cover pretty much every team (kiting between casts obviously). sometimes it get stripped yeah, so you cast it again, even worst case scenario its only down 15 seconds before your back to a full blue bar and casting your skills on recharge.

Its so godly there is simply no reason not to bring it imo, jeez back when everyone ran healing monks in ha i used to to use it to spam HP no problem at all. Vs spikes you usually have tons of nrg anyway since there is no pressure.

Chan also synergises fantastically with wards, since you can just sit in the ward while warriors wail on you doing no dmg spamming your skills like mad. Imo wards shit all over aegis chains anyway, esp in HA where foes is just the most usefull skill ever.

I'm sure people can monk well with gole in ha but there is no doubt in my mind that they would have more nrg and be doing it better with chanelling (assuming they arent shit). Its just no contest.

Nadia Roark · Apr 11, 2007, 05:24 PM // 17:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by TMWNN

...Chan also synergises fantastically with wards, since you can just sit in the ward while warriors wail on you ....

Methinks someone is forgetting why wards fell into disuse. You can't really sit in wards on altar matches, and even on the 1v1 maps the chances that the other team has a handful of AoE spells is a good one; and the chance that you'll be targetted with them is nothing to sneeze at either.

Wards (even Elements, ironically enough) are ftl right now because of all the AoE that's being thrown around. You should never "just sit" in wards in the first place; they're for kiting through not standing in.

TMWNN · Apr 11, 2007, 10:11 PM // 22:11

duh of course you kite through them, my point was that with chanelling you could sit in them if you wanted due to the stupid amount of nrg it gives you.

And wards are not sued so much atm becasue ppl are sheep, they kick arse on altar maps, and the sin + fire ele fotm seems to have died down right now from what ive seen when playing anyway.

Living Parasite · Apr 12, 2007, 02:41 AM // 02:41

Sin and fire ele fotm is on the decline, hammer warriors and RaOs are replacing the BoA sin.