Curse

4ssassin · May 23, 2007, 03:07 AM // 03:07

http://img454.imageshack.us/img454/531/gw160re6.jpg

I asked "Gaile, I would like to know why you continue to neglect all faction PVP."
She responded " I think you will be pleased that we are not neglecting PVP and Factions. You'll see

."

Now, ignoring the fact that she could have been saying Factions pve, and other types of non-factions PVP, lets assume she is talking about Alliance Battles (AB) and Fort Aspenwood (hereon referred to as aspen).

Now, let's do a rundown of all the different PVP's and their rewards, and my personal views on what is appropriate:

All PVP gives experience points at the standard rate, and Balthazar faction at various rates

Random Arenas (RA): 1 Gladiator point per 10 win streak.
Random matches of 4v4
Appropriate: I think this is right on. RA is basically a place you go to screw around, or test builds, considering the majority of if you win or not is luck, based on your other 3 teammates.

Team Arenas (TA):1 Gladiator point per 10 win streak.
Organized matches of 4v4.
Appropriate: I personally don't care too much about TA, but I do think that they deserve a bit more of a reward, since this does take a fair amount of skill and organization to be good at. Maybe increased Balthazar reward, or double Gladiator points for a 10 win streak would be better.

Heros Ascent. (HA) Fame, super rare items for doing well in the Hall of Heros.
Organized matches of 8v8
Appropriate: In my humble opinion, HA people are severely over rewarded. In addition to the Balthazar faction all pvp enjoys, this is also the only way to earn fame, which grants you a special, super shiny Emote. Add in the rare items that can only be found there (some can be found in Fissure of Woe) and you have a super high end Pvp, to the point where if your not a rank 3 fame wise, its super hard to find a decent group.)
I think that the chest needs to be removed, that would balance it out. Or, upgrade the rewards for other types of PVP.

Hero Battles (HB). Commander points, qualifier points in tournament mode
1v1 + 3 heros per team, shrine capture+kills for points
Appropriate: The stated rewards are just fine, I think. However, with the new tournament system(http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Automated_tournament ), this is now one of only 2 ways to unlock rare skins for PVP use (15k armor, etc.) The idea of limiting this to only 2 certain PVP, is, in my opinion, absolutely absurd.

Guild vs Guild (GvG): Guild ranking, qualifier points in tournament mode.
Organized 8v8
Appropriate: Similar to hero battles in that it is the 2nd of 2 ways to gain qualifier points. I think the guild ranking is fine, but again, limiting these points and unlocks two 2 types of PVP is unfair.

Jade Quarry: Kurzick or Luxon Faction
Random 8v8 (http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Jade_Quarry )
Appropriate: Not even worth arguing for, as it is rare to find even 3 people in any district of Jade Quarry, on either side.

Fort Aspenwood: Kurzick or Luxon Faction
Random 8v8 (http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Fort_Aspenwood )
Appropriate: Of all the game modes, Fort Aspenwood is the most plagued by leechers, on both sides. Its not uncommon for 2 or 3 people to be away from keyboard during the duration of the match. Some are so famous that their screen name is known by fighters on both sides (I wont mention them here for fear of getting banned.), and it is clearly obvious that many of these leechers are bots. Fort Aspenwood is also sometimes plagued with long wait times, again on both sides, due to the small number of matches Anet lets occur at once. The reward here is small, and you earn faction much slower than, say, AB, but it is not that big of a deal, should other PVP be toned down.

Alliance Battles (AB): Kurzick or Luxon Faction
3 teams of 4 vs 3 teams of 4.
Appropriate: Again, the rewards are ok, but when you look at HA, its actually really under rewarded. As any ABer will tell you, AB takes just as much skill to be good at as HA. Although there is a bit of luck factor in the 2 other teams, a strong team can often make up the difference. My primary "beef" with factions is that you can only gain the title if you donate your faction to the guild, instead of using it to get amber/jade or scrolls. Faction is faction, so why should I have to do a certain thing with it to get a title? donating it to your guild gives you faction AND title advancement, but getting amber/jade is just amber/jade. And trust me, no one is getting rich selling that stuff, unless they have tons of free time. If you get the faction, you deserve the title, thats what i say. AB also suffers from long wait times, for the same reason as aspen.

What do I want? Not much. Just the ability to unlock rare skins using balth faction, so i can stop unlocking skills ill never use, and not having to wait so damn long for matches. Also, Id love to be able to have a title for AB. 800,000 faction and im only r1 cause i like to use amber to fund my salvage kits.
Hopefully Gaile will give Faction people a little something, something, instead of ignoring us. Can't remember the last time WE got a double weekend.

Wow, this is my longest build ever. Ill end it with asking you to ignore my builds on the screenshots. I was trying to make prot bond work again (no, it didnt work)

To the whole 3 people who will read this, thanks!
EDIT: cleared up ambiguity about GvG and HB

ogre-mage · May 23, 2007, 03:32 AM // 03:32

Cacheelma · May 23, 2007, 05:23 AM // 05:23

...I nearly stop reading when you say AB requires as much skill as HA.

In a match of 3 teams with 4 people each, and you have no control whatsoever on people outside your team (2/3 of your team), I don't think your team's skill would matter much for a match. Can 4 godly players in a team with 8 headless chickens fight 12 headless chickens on the other side? I doubt it.

AB is casual, at best. Maybe not as casual as, say, RA or Fort Aspenwood/Jade Quarry, but in no way as serious as HA. Far, far from it. So I'd say it's to be expected that the reward for AB would be lower than HA.

4ssassin · May 23, 2007, 05:40 AM // 05:40

I think its pretty obvious that you don't AB much. Yes, a godly team of 4 people and 8 chickens can win vs 12 headless chickens. I've done it several times, and had it done to me several times as well. And I think that everyone besides people that play HA would agree that the reward for HA is far too big. Favor of the God's, a special emote, plus the highest level chest in the entire game all on one pvp, in addition to the faction and experience the other forms enjoy? Add in the eliteist attitude of HA and I think Anet has too many eggs in that basket.

Bankai · May 23, 2007, 06:40 AM // 06:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by ogre-mage

QFT

Also, from your post, I draw the conclusion that you suck at both GvG and HB. They get reward points because they're the only type of PvP in which you can have a reward. Also, GvG is the most important kind of PvP in Guildwars (Notice the similarity of name in "Guild versus Guild" and "Guild Wars".)

Hippie Bane · May 23, 2007, 06:55 AM // 06:55

AB is what I do when I'm waiting for the rest of my guild to come on so we can do HA.

AB is a bunch of idiots falling for lame tricks solely for the amusement of the people on my team and I. Granted, it's fun, but not satisfying in the same way that taking halls or winning a GVG match is. So, congrats, you owe some HA players a keyboard, as they just spit their drinks onto theirs when they laughed just now.

bungusmaximus · May 23, 2007, 07:32 AM // 07:32

Hehe, maybe he has the wrong idea about HA, and lots of people got the wrong idea about AB. A guy like Hippie Bane plays in ab AND says its full of idiots, so he is more or less calling himself an idiot :P. Nah but that's bull, I like the idea of the post, factions PvP deserves some love. Theres some neat ideas from people in the Alliance Battle forum anyways.

Skuld · May 23, 2007, 07:47 AM // 07:47

Want to see another funny one?

savage vapor 33 · May 23, 2007, 07:48 AM // 07:48

LoL....This atleast gave me a GREAT laugh...

My favorite part is describing GVG. Similar to Hero Battles? lol...Thank you for the laugh 4ssassin.

4ssassin · May 23, 2007, 08:03 AM // 08:03

I was saying that GvG and HB are the only 2 forms of pvp that get qualifer points, not saying that they are similar gameplay wise.
Yes, I wil admit, this is written from a biased point of view, but one thing cannot be denyed: people that enjoy factions pvp have gotten shafted in a big way over the past year, with AB and fort aspenwood waits getting longer, being less rewarding for some due to amber/jade prices falling, not to mention the death of Jade Quarry. RA and TA are fairly impossible to break as long as the wait times are kept down, and HA, GvG, and now HB are being tweaked, modded, and basically are drawing much of Anet's attention.

Lord Natural · May 23, 2007, 08:09 AM // 08:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4ssassin

As any ABer will tell you, AB takes just as much skill to be good at as HA.

I skimmed your post, but you lost any and all credibility there. AB requires NO skill. Absolutely none. If the map favors your side, you win. If it doesn't, you probably lose. I go to AB with the most retarded builds I can think of, just to goof around, and usually end up winning. It requires no coordination, no ressing, and usually not even a monk. I run around aimlessly looking to cap shrines, and solo people with equally crappy builds. Don't even compare it to RA, as even in RA you need at least a portion of a clue to have success. Maybe you can fluke into a glad point with a dolyak signet warrior, but it's not very likely.

GvG
HA
TA
RA
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
AB

As for the topic of faction rewards, I would have said no way, a year ago. But at this point, with the game all but dead, I don't really care anymore. Getting tired of staring at UAX and a dead game, so it would be something to do at least.

4ssassin · May 23, 2007, 08:17 AM // 08:17

Yes, the map you play on does indeed effect your changes of winning, I personally would love it if AB was permentatly frozen on saltspray beach, the neutral map. By the sounds of it, your one of the people that comes to play AB only when the map is in your favor, which discredits your entire post imho. Come to me with that attitude after winning a good number of games deep in enemy terrority (yes, it is possible, I do it often) and show me a few screenies to back it up, and we will talk. Also, if its only YOUR build that sucks, and the rest of your team knows what they are doing, then yes, 1 person in a 12v12 doesnt have a huge impact, unless they a monk or are playing an equally important role.

Edit: As for your post about RA, I still remember my first 10 win streak. It was on a lvl 16 hammer warrior, with no elite skill, with a build that revolved around Armor of Earth. This was way, way back, like 15 months ago. I thought I was the greatest thing ever, but it was actually just cause we had a godly monk, which i now reliese. So, no, you dont need to have a clue to do good in RA. I fully admit that I had little understanding of the game mechanics at that point.

nugzta · May 23, 2007, 08:21 AM // 08:21

Any random PvP is hardly to be considered as PvP. Guild Wars is a team game and random element wont work.

4ssassin · May 23, 2007, 08:31 AM // 08:31

Ignoring the fact that every part of this game has a random element in it somewhere.
Yes, I will admit that AB is alot random, and there is luck involved. However, you do get to pick your own team, which is a massive step past things like aspenwood and RA.
When you make your team for TA, or HA, and you have a blinding surge ele, or a prot monk, dont you hope that the enemy has warriors or sins to blind, or high powered spells to defend against? All pvp and even pve for that case are based at least partially in luck on the "random" factor

This topic is out of hand. Am i really the only one that doesnt think "Screw you AB/fort aspen/jade quarry, omg HA is the shit give us more drops and ignore anyone that doesnt like what we like." If so, maybe I'm playing the wrong game.

Ive tried all parts of this game at least once. Ive played hero battles, and won some and lost some, but quit because it was too defensive. I played TA and won some and lost some, and I dont play it cause i dont like puging it, and not enough of my friends do. I played HA, and won some and lost some, but i dont play it because nowadays you need a mic (which i dont have), or a certain rank, and i generally dont like the snooby, self centered attitude of 90% of the people i meet in there. I played RA, and dont like it cause of the massive amounts of leavers, leechers, and general crap I get there. I played Jade Quarry, and just loved it, but that died cause the kurzicks have too strong of an advantage. I played fort aspnewood and loved it, because it is basicaly the GW version of "Assault" or "storm the base" from other games, and I have always liked those game modes. I played AB and liked it because it was basically a 12v12 battle that only required me to get a group of 4, and because it gives good balthazar and good kurzick faction, plus its just really fun to me.

Yet here I am getting slammed endlessly for trying to rally support for my favorite game modes, because Anet has given us the cold shoulder.

Shuuda · May 23, 2007, 08:33 AM // 08:33

AB, FA and JQ all have good conecpts, but if Anet put more effort into them they would most certainly be great. Removing the leechers and adding a bit more tactics would work wonders, and add a few more maps. And I do agree with the OP on HAers being overrewarded, considering the amount of fame farming build, and as a frim believer in "Farming takes little skill" I could even go as far to say that AB takes just enough, or more skill than HA. In the end, all none GvG or HA PvP is very very underrated.

bungusmaximus · May 23, 2007, 08:58 AM // 08:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by nugzta

Any random PvP is hardly to be considered as PvP. Guild Wars is a team game and random element wont work.

Bullcrap, really, why can't you get into an AB match with a mic and get organised? All these snobs that piss on AB play it themselves as well. I've seen pretty high ranked people suck at it pretty badly too (I also seen them rock the house of course, you know who you are). Really, good players are rare, the rest are either followers, or just not that good, that goes for any PvP type imo.

Darth Kukulkan · May 23, 2007, 09:02 AM // 09:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cacheelma

Can 4 godly players in a team with 8 headless chickens fight 12 headless chickens on the other side? I doubt it.

Better be a headless chicken than a brainless build-plagiarist...

Quote:

Bullcrap, really, why can't you get into an AB match with a mic and get organised? All these snobs that piss on AB play it themselves as well. I've seen pretty high ranked people suck at it pretty badly too (I also seen them rock the house of course, you know who you are). Really, good players are rare, the rest are either followers, or just not that good, that goes for any PvP type imo.

Yes please stop snobing us all of you "elite" players.
Last week I went in Great temple of balthazar and saw a guy who was recruiting for his guild "only rank 5++"
I am rank 1, but everyone can see in this guy the basic grinder-which knows-nothing : I asked him how long last mirror of ice (he was an elementalist), he was not even capable of saying the school of magic in which this skill belongs.......... just plain pathetic...

Spazzer · May 23, 2007, 09:05 AM // 09:05

lolololololol

Did someone in this thread call Hero Battles pvp?

Deleet · May 23, 2007, 09:13 AM // 09:13

4ssassin.

I appreciate how you try to defend your opinions without hesitating to ad hominem arguments.

But, your argument is seriously flawed and when you compare skill in HA and AB and find them to be the same, you'll just decredit yourself.

HA requires to win:

* Coordination, usually ventrilo or teamspeak with microhpones.

* Organized builds and players.

* Somewhat medium skill level and decent team captain.

AB requires to win:

* Nearly no coordination. Maybe a little teamchat from time to time. Teams are 66,7% random.

* Nearly no organizing, you don't need monks because of ressing, nor proper team set ups, because everyone will just res fast anyway.

* No or low skill requirement. Very map dependant.

-

You actally get to semi choose your teams in RA, it goes like this:
1. Press "M" and click "Random Arenas" - Press "Enter Battle"
2. Do you see any monk on you team, if no, goto 1.
3. Do you see mending warriors or equally useless teammates?, if yes, goto 1.
4. Win, pray that you dont meet 2/4 monk teams and or ritualists.

-

Skuld: Nice quote.. lol @ anet for saying that they aren't pushing HBs.. Worst idea they got ever, I hope that HBs are not in GW2.

-

To play GW PvP requires a large friendlist and or an active PvP guild. Without any of these, you're left with RA and random HA pugging until you get either of the two i've mentioned above.

-Deleet

bungusmaximus · May 23, 2007, 09:16 AM // 09:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth Kukulkan

Better be an headless chicken than a brainless build-plagiarist...

bette be none of the above ^^. But hell, were getting miles beside the point made by the OP, and if we keep bashing eachother people will simply close the thread. Factions PvP deserves more support, because factions itself is more or less deserted, but there's anough people to AB with at an time of the day, go figure

.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deleet

AB requires to win:
* Nearly no coordination.

You simply don't get away with that on the harder maps, besides, playing wihout a clue is boring anyways.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deleet

* Nearly no organizing, you don't need monks because of ressing, nor proper team set ups, because everyone will just res fast anyway.

Team setups help you kill fast, monks prevent your team from falling apart,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deleet

* No or low skill requirement. Very map dependant.

Your either skilled or not, no matter where you are, pretty moot point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deleet

You actally get to semi choose your teams in RA, it goes like this:
1. Press "M" and click "Random Arenas" - Press "Enter Battle"
2. Do you see any monk on you team, if no, goto 1.
3. Do you see mending warriors or equally useless teammates?, if yes, goto 1.

Pretty much the reason why RA sucks and people always leave, if you want a team with a monk go to TA and make one (If u dare

).