Curse

assassin of the god · May 23, 2007, 09:20 PM // 21:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomcruisejr

Including the current acceptable gvg meta?

Gimmick builds maybe are ideally meant to counter, through extreme dmg, pressure, the usual balanced but certainly those builds arent impossible to defeat coz they aren't as flexible as the latter. Good teams, as someone said, won't ever lose (or lose less) to [prenerfed] gimmicks. When IWAY GvG was at its prime (via Sweetie Animal Girl) in GvG and basically raped everybody but War Machine and EvIL. We all know what [eF] did to [prenerfed]sb/ri ran by [iQ] and EvIL did to Orbspike by the Rifts. Or what War Machine to what i consider Gimmicky tactic by LuM(when they decided to completely counter WM's build). So yea, it all boils down to good teams running balanced defeating good teams running gimmick and to turn that around, the gimmick team must put effort. But when you nerf gimmicks and keep the balanced setup untouched, everything will boil town to good balanced teams and mediocre(or sometimes bad) balanced teams defeating good teams running gimmicks.

Back on topic, thinking pvp as being dead is subjective.

This makes absolutely no sense, why would a team build against another team if they are clearly better? Gimmicks introduces build wars, and that is exactly the problem. It negates factors of skill, and basicly either you have the right tools in your build, or you are so much better then the other team that you can win otherwise, or you lose.EviL lost to Deer back in the day, simply that despite all their tactical finesse and skill superiorty, they did not have the right tools to deal with them.This ofcourse would be fine if guild wars was advertised as the team with best build wins, but as it said right on the prophicies box, skill over everything.

lacasner · May 24, 2007, 12:36 AM // 00:36

Quote:

Gimmicks introduces build wars, and that is exactly the problem.

Not all gimmicks are build wars, some are just fun to play and are equally matched to balanced, or are specifically designed to beat another gimmick. As long as gimmicks are not overpowered, I fully support them as well. I just want more than 1 frickin option lol.

tomcruisejr · May 24, 2007, 12:05 PM // 12:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by assassin of the god

This makes absolutely no sense, why would a team build against another team if they are clearly better? Gimmicks introduces build wars, and that is exactly the problem. It negates factors of skill, and basicly either you have the right tools in your build, or you are so much better then the other team that you can win otherwise, or you lose.EviL lost to Deer back in the day, simply that despite all their tactical finesse and skill superiorty, they did not have the right tools to deal with them.

That's my point. Gimmick builds give a chance to less superior teams to bag a win and you need that "extra effort" to made that happen. Maybe Deer did EvIL because they spiked wonderfully and their monks healed better that match. or maybe EvIL were stressed or whatever.

Remember that EvIL lost to iQ back in the day, simply that despite all their tactical finesse and skill superiority, they did not have the right tools to control their guild lord and npcs. See, you have to think beyond the team build and skill bar usage.

Gillian Treehugger · May 24, 2007, 12:21 PM // 12:21

yes PvP is dead for the common player

heres why

GvG is a waste of time unless you are into AT's and as most people can not commit to 6 hours of play if its a six round tournament.

In my guild which was a solid PvP guild (100-200 area) we have given up on GvG now as we all have families and work so we can not spend the necessary time in one sitting on GvG.

the rest of PvP is just time fillers as they will have no real meaning in GW2 as all you will get is some meaningless title or some fancy armor.

for us now its just a case of having fun and keeping the guild together untill GW2 comes out.

red orc · May 27, 2007, 09:01 AM // 09:01

No it is not dead.
I played HA until I had to fight rt spike after rt spike => quit HA.
I played GVG till had to fight paraway on jade and rt spike on jade => got boring => quit GVG.
I played AB once => got bored => never even started.
I played RA and got a different group each time and different foe each time => I still play RA.
RA is still the only game in town, and as someone said, I play it cause it is the only game in town.

*lemming* · May 27, 2007, 08:23 PM // 20:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by red orc

No it is not dead.
I played HA until I had to fight rt spike after rt spike => quit HA.
I played GVG till had to fight paraway on jade and rt spike on jade => got boring => quit GVG.
I played AB once => got bored => never even started.
I played RA and got a different group each time and different foe each time => I still play RA.
RA is still the only game in town, and as someone said, I play it cause it is the only game in town.

You win the internet!

Epinephrine · May 27, 2007, 08:35 PM // 20:35

ATs killed GvG for the most part, solid guilds who could manage play every night at set times simply can't compete in ATs regularly.

HvH is a horrid format, yet ANet blindly pushes it.

HA never had any interest to me, and I hear it's pretty un-fun atm, leaving TA and RA really. Well, RA is RA, and there is little benefit to playing TA other than some glad points.

PvP is basically dead or dying, yes.

Servant of Kali · May 27, 2007, 09:37 PM // 21:37

Who cares. PvErs will at least buy GWEN and fund ANet. What will PvPers do? Nothing. Hence, it's in the best interest of ANet to remove most PvPers in the game, until GW2 comes. They wont use bandwith that way.

I dont even play the game anymore, and even when i did it was all RA lately, now when i think of it. It's been a while since i GvGed or TAed. Oh i did a bit of AB, which is at least better than dead-boring HA.

fenix · May 28, 2007, 02:59 PM // 14:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by red orc

No it is not dead.
I played HA until I had to fight rt spike after rt spike => quit HA.
I played GVG till had to fight paraway on jade and rt spike on jade => got boring => quit GVG.
I played AB once => got bored => never even started.
I played RA and got a different group each time and different foe each time => I still play RA.
RA is still the only game in town, and as someone said, I play it cause it is the only game in town.

Um...what?

HA has ALWAYS been gimmick after gimmick, did you only just buy Guild Wars? Smite? IWAY? Ranger Spike? Blood spike? If you quit because of gimmicks, you must be REALLY bad, because gimmicks is all you face.

You faced Paraway on Jade and Rit Spike on Jade. That's what, 2 of the top 20 guilds? I personally have never faced those builds, but I saw them on obs in the Monthly tourney, like you must have. Do you even PvP? Did you just watch obs and assume that's what people play?

AB =/= PvP.

RA is the only game in town? Wow. What? RA is the LOWEST form of PvP in Guild Wars, as it's simply tards with stupid builds, who have NO idea how to play. And a few good players testing things. No wonder you quit the other PvP types, you must have lost, or just been too bad to get into teams.

Can we get some opinions from REAL PvPers please? Kthx.

wuzzman · May 28, 2007, 03:24 PM // 15:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenix

Um...what?

HA has ALWAYS been gimmick after gimmick, did you only just buy Guild Wars? Smite? IWAY? Ranger Spike? Blood spike? If you quit because of gimmicks, you must be REALLY bad, because gimmicks is all you face.

You faced Paraway on Jade and Rit Spike on Jade. That's what, 2 of the top 20 guilds? I personally have never faced those builds, but I saw them on obs in the Monthly tourney, like you must have. Do you even PvP? Did you just watch obs and assume that's what people play?

AB =/= PvP.

RA is the only game in town? Wow. What? RA is the LOWEST form of PvP in Guild Wars, as it's simply tards with stupid builds, who have NO idea how to play. And a few good players testing things. No wonder you quit the other PvP types, you must have lost, or just been too bad to get into teams.

Can we get some opinions from REAL PvPers please? Kthx.

naw...we won't hear from any real pvp'ers we do get to hear from pvp'ers whinning like pve'ers

fenix · May 28, 2007, 03:31 PM // 15:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by wuzzman

naw...we won't hear from any real pvp'ers we do get to hear from pvp'ers whinning like pve'ers

So basically, you're a PvEr who decided to come to the PvP section and post? Nice work! For the record, PvErs whine (Soul Reaping thread, gogo?), PvPers simply post things that need fixing. There's a difference between the 2.

wuzzman · May 28, 2007, 03:40 PM // 15:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenix

So basically, you're a PvEr who decided to come to the PvP section and post? Nice work! For the record, PvErs whine (Soul Reaping thread, gogo?), PvPers simply post things that need fixing. There's a difference between the 2.

sorry I am a pvp'er...I'm just surprised when pvp'ers sound alot like them. and lol pve'ers say the same thing, that they are "fixing some game ending problem that is the end of guild wars has we know it".

fenix · May 28, 2007, 03:54 PM // 15:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by wuzzman

sorry I am a pvp'er...I'm just surprised when pvp'ers sound alot like them. and lol pve'ers say the same thing, that they are "fixing some game ending problem that is the end of guild wars has we know it".

But they are wrong, and over-dramatize things. Getting energy every 5 seconds, compared to all the time isn't a game breaking issue. It's a "making bad necro's ragequit" issue. Which is fine by me.

Faith Taylyn · May 29, 2007, 06:44 AM // 06:44

The AT's are really a double edged sword... Sure they increase the activity (talking about Europe side here) during them, but they also decrease the activity outside of those times. When before most of European teams GvG'ed during the same peak times which guaranteed you multiple high ranked guild to play against, now their split into 2, the people who GvG at the time of AT's and the people who GvG before/after AT's. This brings the amount of top 100 GvG's to a VERY low figure on the days when AT's are unusually early/late from European peak time stand point.

Also guilds aren't encouraged to play "normal" GvG's anymore as they really don't affect the ladder at all, which means less people in general play in them and from the guild's still playing, many of those guilds threat them as scrimmages and just test builds etc. so the quality of those matches really isn't that great always as the amount you can loose in rating during one evening can be easily gotten back in the AT's the next day.

On the OP, PvP might be dead in US side but it's still going relatively strong in Europe, but don't know for how long.

red orc · May 29, 2007, 11:12 AM // 11:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenix

You faced Paraway on Jade and Rit Spike on Jade. That's what, 2 of the top 20 guilds? I personally have never faced those builds, but I saw them on obs in the Monthly tourney, like you must have. Do you even PvP? Did you just watch obs and assume that's what people play?

Why do you assume that if you've only seen those builds in obs mode, other's did as well ?

Quote:

AB =/= PvP.

Smart observation, do you see AB in obs mode too ?

Quote:

RA is the only game in town? Wow. What? RA is the LOWEST form of PvP in Guild Wars, as it's simply tards with stupid builds, who have NO idea how to play. And a few good players testing things. No wonder you quit the other PvP types, you must have lost, or just been too bad to get into teams.

You see, everybody can understand an argument if it is explained to them slowly enough

Quote:

Can we get some opinions from REAL PvPers please? Kthx.

Since you're such a REAL PvPer, what do you think of the subject ? or are you here just to flame others and to obs people posts.

fenix · May 29, 2007, 11:44 AM // 11:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by red orc

Why do you assume that if you've only seen those builds in obs mode, other's did as well ?

Smart observation, do you see AB in obs mode too ?

You see, everybody can understand an argument if it is explained to them slowly enough

Since you're such a REAL PvPer, what do you think of the subject ? or are you here just to flame others and to obs people posts.

I said that I hadn't played against those builds. I HAVE played against almost every other build that has been come up with, just not the Rit spike that HAnD ran, or the Paraway that Cry ran.

What? AB on obs? What are you talking about. This is about PvP dying, and you said you played AB. AB doesn't constitute the PvP that this thread is about.

I said it on my last post, and I'll say it again. RA is dumb. Your view of it being 'the only game in town', is a view that a lot of PvErs share, as it's REALLY easy to get into RA, as there is little or no skill required, and you don't need to find a team. Nuff said?

Since I am a "REAL PvPer" as you said, I will give my opinion. Oh wait, I already did. Top of page 2. Here, I'll quote:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fenix

yeah, PvP is dying. All the good players are quitting, and now there's barely any left. I imagine that very soon, there will be no good players, just high ranked gimmick teams, or guilds that got lucky from lack of opposition.

That's my opinion. And since then, even more players have started disappearing. There are still lots of guilds, but the skill level is dropping rapidly, as all the good players are leaving. There are enough guilds to sustain GvG competitively for a while, but GW:EN won't help, as it's a PvE expansion.

red orc · May 29, 2007, 12:35 PM // 12:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenix

I said that I hadn't played against those builds. I HAVE played against almost every other build that has been come up with, just not the Rit spike that HAnD ran, or the Paraway that Cry ran.

This is getting really funny. I did not say anything about Cry or HAnD. I did not observe them either. My level of playing is far from theirs. But if you say, you did not encounter any para spike or rit spike on jade in gvg I strongly suggest you start gvging some more, like more than once a month.

Quote:

What? AB on obs? What are you talking about. This is about PvP dying, and you said you played AB. AB doesn't constitute the PvP that this thread is about.
.

I said I did not play AB, read my post. I said I played it once and got bored and never came back.
Anyway this is the last I'm going to elaborate, cause my sarcasm is totaly wasted here.

bungusmaximus · May 29, 2007, 01:11 PM // 13:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by red orc

I said I did not play AB, read my post. I said I played it once and got bored and never came back.

At least AB is alive, opportunity to pick ur own teams plz aNet? So much potential wasted is downright painful ><.

fenix · May 29, 2007, 01:56 PM // 13:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by bungusmaximus

At least AB is alive, opportunity to pick ur own teams plz aNet? So much potential wasted is downright painful ><.

AB isn't worth the effort. It's a poor game-type. They should either remove NPC's from Shrines, and change the way they cap (so that it's more PvP rather than NPC killing), or add emphasis on killing other people.

AB was more popular when it was COMPLETELY random 12v12, because people could have fun with their own build, and own faces. Now it's just bad, because even if you put in the effort to make a good team of 4, the other 2 teams suck, and try to kill everyone. Then there's the grouping up and steamrolling crap.

bungusmaximus · May 29, 2007, 02:04 PM // 14:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenix

AB isn't worth the effort. It's a poor game-type. They should either remove NPC's from Shrines, and change the way they cap (so that it's more PvP rather than NPC killing), or add emphasis on killing other people.

AB was more popular when it was COMPLETELY random 12v12, because people could have fun with their own build, and own faces. Now it's just bad, because even if you put in the effort to make a good team of 4, the other 2 teams suck, and try to kill everyone. Then there's the grouping up and steamrolling crap.

Hmm I wouldn't say that it isn't worth it, poor game type only applies to some of the maps, the idea isn't too shabby imo. I think you can get pretty interesting matches when the players actually have a clue.

Just look at it from, say, my perspective. I started when factions was already out for a while, back then I was just a very bad player. Now I'm actually getting better and UAX and al that stuff. Since a little while I actually started doing harder forms of PvP (HA, TA and the like). By the time I get the hang of that and by the time I will have gathered enough fame/gladpoints to be taken seriously, most people will have stopped playing. That's PvP for me. AB however is a format I am quite familiar with, so I probably will be able to compete seriously if a pimped version of AB would come out.