Curse

Spazzer · May 07, 2007, 05:56 AM // 05:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mourne

For one thing Te is kinda still here

hi, welcome to pvp.

I had a feeling someone would miss the point of my post. You did not dissapoint.

There is no way you can argue that the Te of today is nearly as great as Te was. That's like saying War Machine is "pretty awesome".

I'm sure you'd like to take the stance that "the competition just caught up", but I don't see it that way. I feel a complete lack of inspiration all around.

Ensign · May 07, 2007, 06:16 AM // 06:16

Inability to balance the game is the biggest problem. Progress has been made, but it's been so slow that people just lose patience and go to different games.

Peace,
-CxE

around · May 07, 2007, 08:34 AM // 08:34

ANet are really conservative when it comes to balancing. The most they seem to want to do is change energy costs, recharges or other numbers, instead of getting to the root of the problem and changing functionality. Hence, things like paragons and ritualists will always either be really good or really bad.

Clord · May 07, 2007, 10:02 AM // 10:02

http://www.xfire.com/

Xfire points out that Guild Wars does very good. Only game what beat it with popularity from similar genre is WoW. However most from Guild Wars players mostly play PvE.

To get build diversity it need auto balancer to nerf skills what are mostly used and buff skills what are least used. Automatic system (simple things like energy cost can change builds greatly).

william1975 · May 07, 2007, 01:28 PM // 13:28

I'm not dedicated to pvp, i like both pvp and pve, but it seems to me most want you to dedicate all your time to one or the other, and if you don't dedicate all your time to pvp, you can't keep up with the current builds used, and when you don't have said build then you can't join teams, this is specifically in HA, GVG is diferent obviously as you need a guidl that does that, RA is a case of pot luck and TA is not as bad as HA, hero battles its up to you how you play so its your own fault if you don't do well

I think most seem to believe PVP is primarily HA or GVG, not doing GVG I can't comment on that, but I know HA is just a pain due to people not being willing to accomdate or teach newer player, this leaves a stigma about the place, most can't be bothered going in. This however doesn't make it dead, as people still play it and the other areas, it just makes certain areas less popular than they once were

Ec]-[oMaN · May 07, 2007, 01:41 PM // 13:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by william1975

but I know HA is just a pain due to people not being willing to accomdate or teach newer player, this leaves a stigma about the place, most can't be bothered going in. This however doesn't make it dead, as people still play it and the other areas, it just makes certain areas less popular than they once were

This seems to be the more common perception the new bread of GW players have. I hate to be rude, but if you share this view get off your high chairs and do things for yourself. No one taught me anything about guild wars, and I'm sure many other highly skilled PVP players learned by just playing and putting in the time.
Join an active guild, do TA when ever you can, partake in HA when ever you can.
It's sad though, todays HA is nothing like it used to be, and certainly playing in todays HA will never remotely relate/cross over to high tier GVG gameplay like it used to. The old stepping stone has been removed and is void. With nothing to take its place except crappy ra/ab/hvh/ta.

Nekretaal · May 07, 2007, 02:06 PM // 14:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by lacasner

. Everyone uses the same build, 3 monks, 2 warriors or so (1 being hammer one being eviscerate), a me/mo, and a e/rt flag runner, and a burning-arrow ranger.?

This is the classic balanced build. Why is this "balanced," but some other cookie cutter isnt? Because it fits the playstyle that those in charge of nerfs want to promote. Thats the only reason.

Everybody uses this build because it will never be nerfed, even as every other build will be nerfed if it can beat this build.

Balance in pvp means nerfing any build that can beat this playstyle.

Gosu · May 07, 2007, 02:09 PM // 14:09

Well Well the Chicken comes home to roost

I remember making similar comments in my threads from last year called "Evolve or die" about the state of the Meta and the problems with the implementation of new classes and skills.

I also said many a top guild and player would leave before the end of this blasted game.
But instead I got shouted down by you very Guru Members and blasted by moderators and notably by some buffoon called Thom Banglter.

Only one person backed me up most notably through my initial thread and that was Wasteland Squidget when I made comments about how Guild wars was becoming more about build rather than skill and how the game was becoming stagnant. I remember making a comment about one of A-nets slogans which is on the package of the European version of the game

Where it says "your skill will be your legend" I made the comment that they should have changed it to "your skill bar will be your legend"

I feel so vindicated when I hear others typing the same stuff I was typing a year ago.

Ah it feels so good....

lyra_song · May 07, 2007, 02:17 PM // 14:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by spawnofebil

ANet are really conservative when it comes to balancing. The most they seem to want to do is change energy costs, recharges or other numbers, instead of getting to the root of the problem and changing functionality. Hence, things like paragons and ritualists will always either be really good or really bad.

Well obviously.

If anet did more radical changes, people complain even more vocally. Its just ridiculous.

Look at Soul Reaping...................The 5 second thing is such a conservative nerf, along with the reduction in costs of some skills, it doesnt really change anything.

See. Anet cannot win

If they adjust the game to make it balanced to make some PvPers happy, some PvPers and PvErs will complain that their builds got nerfed.

If they adjust functionality of certain things, PvPers and PvErs will complain that their builds got nerfed.

If they do nothing, PvPers will complain about a stagnant and lame metagame.

If they adjust map designs and gameplay styles, players will complain that "the old way was better".

If they revert to the old way, some players will complain that "the previous changes were better"

so on and so forth.

It will NEVER end.

No matter how small a group the complainers will be, they will find a way to be loud enough to get changes done. Hence, the squeaky wheel gets the grease idiom:

If you bitch loud enough, youll get what you want because people want you to shut the RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO up

Helcaraxe · May 07, 2007, 02:32 PM // 14:32

PvP is not dead... it's just ona vacation.

Ec]-[oMaN · May 07, 2007, 02:45 PM // 14:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

No matter how small a group the complainers will be, they will find a way to be loud enough to get changes done. Hence, the squeaky wheel gets the grease idiom:

Not really, there could be a 5000 page long thread about a change and ANET could just do what they feel is right(ie nothing). People miss that point. Any change that has happened to GW, A.net has shared the same/relatively same viewpoint of said change.

william1975 · May 07, 2007, 02:49 PM // 14:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ec]-[oMaN

This seems to be the more common perception the new bread of GW players have. I hate to be rude, but if you share this view get off your high chairs and do things for yourself. No one taught me anything about guild wars, and I'm sure many other highly skilled PVP players learned by just playing and putting in the time.
Join an active guild, do TA when ever you can, partake in HA when ever you can.
.

I'm not sure you got the meaning of my post there, I don't play pvp exclusively, I don't want to, I want to be able to pop in and out as I like, I dont want to be in a guild that is dedicated to pvp, and I'm not complaing about the way it operates, I'm putting forward a theory on why it isn't as lively as it was, that theory is simple:

In the begining all were of the same level, they learned to play together, became good and were able to keep up with updates changes, that created an elite, people with high ranks, anyone coming in after a certain period will not be able to compete with these players, that is understandable, however in a game where those players become elitist and disregard the lower eschelons it becomes demoralizing for those people to continue trying to learn on their own, or with others in their situation, they are left with the option of joining a guild dedicated to it or ignoring it, I believe most do the later, that is why i think HA is no longer as active as it was.

Personally if i wanted to become an ace pvp player i would join an active guild and I would spend what time i could playing TA and HA, but I don't

How to counter this is a difficult proposition, Anet always seems to be fidling with thing to try to achieve that, tryign to balance things, so newer player have a chance to be included or easier time to learn how to play, it never seems to work though, maybe they need to rethink HA all together, eliminate elitism and make it random

Ouchie · May 07, 2007, 02:52 PM // 14:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Domino

If all these people are quitting PvP, they sure aren't playing PvE.... cause a lot of cities and outposts, especially in older chapters, are practically empty (even during peak hours) - not that it matters, since the popular trend seems to be "Just hench/hero it"

Where are you playing and what are your peak hours? I see people everywhere I go in all three continents especially since HM.

I admit certain things are harder to find a group for

"LFG for vanquishing"

but most things are easy to get a group for "GLF more for HM" "GLF more for NM"

I even see "LFG to cap skill" which I never saw when I was capping my elites.

As for PvP ...

I was a fan of HoH at one point and lost complete interest in and the whining over it. I may go back one day but I am satisfied with vanquishing at the moment. I don't want to get to rank 101 or higher either.

I find AB funny to play and good for a once in a while treat - build up some Urgoz Scrolls to get back and forth

Ra makes for an enjoyable afternoon once in a while.

Ta ok with a guild group or friends but not top of my to do list

HvH - haven't even bothered to roll the dice

GvG - requires too much of a time investment to be the best for me right now - so I stay clear rather than messing up someone else's chance

Ec]-[oMaN · May 07, 2007, 03:03 PM // 15:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by william1975

I'm not sure you got the meaning of my post there, I don't play pvp exclusively, I don't want to, I want to be able to pop in and out as I like, I dont want to be in a guild that is dedicated to pvp, and I'm not complaing about the way it operates, I'm putting forward a theory on why it isn't as lively as it was, that theory is simple:

In the begining all were of the same level, they learned to play together, became good and were able to keep up with updates changes, that created an elite, people with high ranks, anyone coming in after a certain period will not be able to compete with these players, that is understandable, however in a game where those players become elitist and disregard the lower eschelons it becomes demoralizing for those people to continue trying to learn on their own, or with others in their situation, they are left with the option of joining a guild dedicated to it or ignoring it, I believe most do the later, that is why i think HA is no longer as active as it was.

Personally if i wanted to become an ace pvp player i would join an active guild and I would spend what time i could playing TA and HA, but I don't

How to counter this is a difficult proposition, Anet always seems to be fidling with thing to try to achieve that, tryign to balance things, so newer player have a chance to be included or easier time to learn how to play, it never seems to work though, maybe they need to rethink HA all together, eliminate elitism and make it random

I do get the gist of your point, although you have still missed mine.
Even in the beginning there were different players at different times, with low to ultra high tier skill differences. There were Elitists then, just as there are now. Sure some might have been buddy buddy with some higher skilled players and got a "better ride" into high tier PVP. Although players then still pugged with players relative of their skill and grew, something the current GW player base doesn't do. This is why you see such big spreads in the Elitism/player skill. Also don't forget the fact that alot of the Elites have left or are just about to, there might not be such a big spread soon.
Related to others who feel PVP isn't on a land slide down, just look at how many districts there are in any given PVP area, you are either blind or haven't been around long enough to notice the difference.

evil joo · May 07, 2007, 03:06 PM // 15:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

Inability to balance the game is the biggest problem. Progress has been made, but it's been so slow that people just lose patience and go to different games.

Peace,
-CxE

1) /agree with ensign

2) Introduction of observer mode created a fast pace meta-game. Innovation and the excitement of a making a "new build" has diminish, and Anet lost the ability to fix overpowered skills.

william1975 · May 07, 2007, 03:27 PM // 15:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ec]-[oMaN

just look at how many districts there are in any given PVP area, you are either blind or haven't been around long enough to notice the difference.

I think my point is that ha is not as vibrant as it once was, and that was your point too,

yes there are lots of districts in some areas, but when i play ha has about 1 distrinct in english and 2 in international, 3 if its lucky, this has been the case for the 12 months i have been playing, unless there is some weekend event and event hen it isn't as large as events for pve, I presume you are trying to say that the districts across all the pvp was a lot larger in the past to this

Ec]-[oMaN · May 07, 2007, 03:39 PM // 15:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by william1975

I presume you are trying to say that the districts across all the pvp was a lot larger in the past to this

Correct...

makosi · May 07, 2007, 03:57 PM // 15:57

The major problem with Guild Wars PvP is that they stated from the outset (see your prophecies box) that success comes from your player skill. Perhaps the meant 'skills'.

It isn't - that's marketing. With the exception of GvG, your build determines your victory in most aspects of Guild Wars but I don't mind. Of course, it's an advantage to have knowledge of maps, timers and win conditions but little things like that can be learned.

In my opinion, HoH was fine before they over-complicated it with relics and kill-count but the devs changed it because of people's complaints but the main problem about HoH (and the rest of Heroes' Ascent) was that skills/builds were imbalanced.

-IWAY was imbalanced until it 9 months later when they fixed orders and Eviscerate etc.
-Dual Smite was imbalanced until they fixed AoE.
-Paraway was imbalanced until they fixed energizing finale and co.
-Spirit Spam (and the modern Rit Lord) - goes without saying

When there's an imbalance the people who grasp the opportunity to farm fame cry once its fixed because they can't spam 1-7 on their keyboard and hold halls as a result. Some people measure their 'e-peen' from their fame count but it's totally flawed.

On ArenaNet's defence, it is impossible to balace a game like this so they have set themselves up for failure in that aspect. All I ask is that they respond more quickly and aggresivley to imbalances. Why do we still have thumpers and BoA assassins?

Yes there are counters. Counters =/= balance.

lyra_song · May 07, 2007, 04:07 PM // 16:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ec]-[oMaN

Not really, there could be a 5000 page long thread about a change and ANET could just do what they feel is right(ie nothing). People miss that point. Any change that has happened to GW, A.net has shared the same/relatively same viewpoint of said change.

i agree. this brings me to another point.

The majority isn't always right.

wynoski · May 07, 2007, 04:29 PM // 16:29

Meh...its an aspect of the game i don't enjoy...I get tired of an assassin shadow stepping to me and hitting 1-6 on his skill bar as my necro stands there defensless...then I get taunted...

Sorry...at lease the PVE mosters show some respect. For those of you who enjoy PVP, I hope its not dead, but it affect me little. GW is a PVE game to me.