Curse

Hoppervalley · May 28, 2007, 08:22 PM // 20:22

The SOD monk - Has become one of my favorite monk picks in a 3 man back line

My favorite build-

14 protection prayers 11 +1 (scar pattern) +2 (major rune)
11 healing prayers +1 (minor rune)
11 Divine favor +1 (minor rune)

1. Reversal of Fortune
2. Gift of Health
3. Shielding Hands/Shield of absorption
4. Holy Veil
5. Shield of Deflection [elite]
6. Spirit Bond/Protective Spirit
7. Aegis/guardian/mending touch/dismiss condition
8. Glyph of Lesser Energy

Reasoning-

1. Auto include on most of my monk bars

2. 100+ health every 5 secs, fast cast, 5 energy, draw back in consequential

3. make sure to coordinate with the other monk it will be very bad if you are both running the same one. In the event he is running neither i prefer SOA

4. If you have read my other posts you'll know I'm a huge Holy Veil fan.

5. Here we have the elite and for the most part you'll notice that the bar is very similar to the RC build i proposed earlier. Shield of Deflection for lack of a better way to put it makes someone stop dying. It can be recast very quickly, and considering its dramatic impact costs relatively little at 10 energy. when i first tried this i was very conservative with it however a buddy told me to "cut that puppy lose" and after a few matches realized that if i kept up SOD it severely decreased the amount i was needing to cast other spells and thereby in a strange way making up for its higher casting cost.

6. I think of this as my spike protection slot, again make sure to coordinate with the other monk.

7. Utility slot

8. Glyph as always my favorite energy hiding/management skill.

Notes-
I put a major run to squeeze an extra second out of SOD.

Don't get to happy with SOD i know i made it seem like a spam it but that's not entirely accurate. You still need to have energy for the rest of your skills, don't go deep into your energy switch just to keep casting SOD.

Living Parasite · May 28, 2007, 08:30 PM // 20:30

SoD sucks energy.

Guardian is so underrated in HA.

pigdestroyer · May 28, 2007, 08:39 PM // 20:39

taking 3 monks is a waste of a character slot.

Hoppervalley · May 28, 2007, 11:12 PM // 23:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Living Parasite

SoD sucks energy.

Guardian is so underrated in HA.

yes i agree guardian is under rated. but while SOD does eat energy it is energy well spent.

elektra_lucia · May 29, 2007, 12:05 AM // 00:05

In manner's group in six man (think it was then), we ran three monks but a monk had foes, spellbreaker and stuff. Was weird, but it worked really well. I was trying to think up a similar idea. At the moment a lot of people are either using SoD monk, or simply using two monks.

For most monks, cancling healing and then infusing is hard. For a third monk, it'd be nice to do more than monking.

grasping earth, spellbreaker, infuse, ward of foes, deny hex, divine spirit, and I'm not sure what else to have yet. Would mean, no need for divert hex, snares, energy management and a dedicated infuser would be nice for spikes.

Most people I have messaged with this idea think it is retarded. :>.

I don't think using this is a waste of a character slot, but maybe not at full potential.

I Brother Bloood I · May 29, 2007, 12:07 AM // 00:07

The only thing i have a prob with is how u had guardian as a possibility in aegis slot...

EDIT - Ur just bringing up sb/infuse again. Not that i had anything against it i just dont wanna run it. Infuse, sb, grasping, foes, deny hexes, divine spirit(not a fan of it but w/e maybe intervention or somethin else), draw(theres 2 etra spots on ur infuser), gole. Doesnt look bad to me. Spell shield isnt to bad but then what do u have sb for? Devotion is meh when infuser cuz 2 sec.

Hoppervalley · May 29, 2007, 08:58 AM // 08:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by elektra_lucia

In manner's group in six man (think it was then), we ran three monks but a monk had foes, spellbreaker and stuff. Was weird, but it worked really well. I was trying to think up a similar idea. At the moment a lot of people are either using SoD monk, or simply using two monks.

For most monks, cancling healing and then infusing is hard. For a third monk, it'd be nice to do more than monking.

grasping earth, spellbreaker, infuse, ward of foes, deny hex, divine spirit, and I'm not sure what else to have yet. Would mean, no need for divert hex, snares, energy management and a dedicated infuser would be nice for spikes.

Most people I have messaged with this idea think it is retarded. :>.

I don't think using this is a waste of a character slot, but maybe not at full potential.

I started tinkering with the build a bit and while i have yet to decide if i like anything ill throw out somethings i was considering to see if anything strikes you as a "Oh try this"

Your general suggestion-

grasping earth
ward against foes
divine spirt
spell breaker
infuse
deny hexes

How i'm looking at toying with it-
11/10/10 split 11 in divine

grasping earth
ward against foes
divine spirt
glyph of lesser
spell breaker / glimmer / lod/ healer's boon
infuse
deny hexes
holy veil
kinetic armor
stone flesh aura
orison
signet of rejuv
eruption
dwanya's kiss
(other standard heal spells)

ironically I'd love to get channeling on this bar.

Div · May 29, 2007, 10:14 AM // 10:14

SoD monk > rspike and paragons

elektra_lucia · May 29, 2007, 12:00 PM // 12:00

You don't need to waste an elite on the current r-spike and paragons, really.

Hoppervalley:

The point of the bar was for relic runs. Spellbreaker the guy running, cripple/snare and infuse for spikes and be able to remove a load of hex's. Not really heal.

Kinetic armour doesn't help your team. Lod, gimmer, healers boon - they won't help the deny hex's.

glyph of lesser energy, divine spirit, infuse, divine intervention, grasping earth, ward against foes, deny hex's and spellbreaker. Is kind of what I came too.

I don't think you need many points in healing for infuse to work well, so I'd max out divine, for sure.

spellbreaker, infuse, ward of foes use a lot of energy. You don't want to be healing with this bar.

Hoppervalley · May 30, 2007, 09:22 AM // 09:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by elektra_lucia

You don't need to waste an elite on the current r-spike and paragons, really.

Hoppervalley:

The point of the bar was for relic runs. Spellbreaker the guy running, cripple/snare and infuse for spikes and be able to remove a load of hex's. Not really heal.

Kinetic armour doesn't help your team. Lod, gimmer, healers boon - they won't help the deny hex's.

glyph of lesser energy, divine spirit, infuse, divine intervention, grasping earth, ward against foes, deny hex's and spellbreaker. Is kind of what I came too.

I don't think you need many points in healing for infuse to work well, so I'd max out divine, for sure.

spellbreaker, infuse, ward of foes use a lot of energy. You don't want to be healing with this bar.

i was just throwing a lot of different ideas out there. I actually spent most of the night playing IWAY so i didn't get around to actually testing any of the skills i suggested. The kinetic armor idea I'll chalk up to it being late and i was tired. For some reason i got it in my head that we could use a monk as bait of sorts. Then some time after a lot of sleep i was like so what im saying is lets have a monk commit suicide, Gaze of contempt + no energy at all for the loss. I never thought i'd be saying that i played IWAY in a million years but i did. Conclusion too limited in the current format since the goals tend to favor high dps and fast teams. You also take an auto loss to hex spam. The slow but steady play style of the iway team was just to limited also the skill bars where to locked into place to adjust at all.

elektra_lucia · May 30, 2007, 12:19 PM // 12:19

Wouldn't need to use gaze of contempt if iway warriors knew how to interupt(which they don't, and will never).

I observed some points you said (and didn't say) :

• Adding health on a prot monk instead of the correct armour.
• Using Chop chop over extend panda as a quote for 'positioning'
• Using -2 energy offhand instead of extra armour shields (which is much much more important)
• The best way to save a spike is infuse.
• Using glyph on a heal bar with little 10 energy spells.
• The fact you mentioned 'those about to rock' as a 'good' monk.
• Happily showing you don't know how to set attribute points.
• Not talking about 20% enchant.
• Can not save rt spike with prot spirit and spirit bond (lolol)
• Mending touch and RC on the same prot bar.
• Using two monks and "draw condition is over kill on the healer".

After this, I realised that people must get brain washed (some newb who joins these forums and reads all these threads is just going to remain to know nothing). I can kind of empathize why wammos are wammos. They get told by some guy they look up to that using mending is good and the next thing you know EVERY wammo is using mending.

I also concluded the only way for you so happily to talk like you knew anything when you didn't, was because you IWAY'd. So that is no surprise, really.

Spirits in an iway team hurt monks. IWAY heals. That is the point, to heal and to increase attack speed. I don't know why you would put a monk in an iway team. I go to bed late but hey I don't think oh my everytime someone uses mirror of disenchantment I'll point a mirror at my screen and then it won't work...

I never started a glyph vs channeling argument either. I can see the room for debate when you have lots of ten energy spells, but when you mentioned it on a healer with few ten energy spells I felt there was no room for debate. It was a simple case of wrong or right.

This sounds awfully rude and there is no way to say it. You've just shown yourself to be a monk who doesn't know how to monk, and doesn't know a good monk when he sees it; in addition, wanting to inflict his ignorance on others. If I was new to this game I would want good advice. These threads are worse than an angry troll. An angry troll can be seen as angry and people don't usually take notice of him or absorb his nonsense.

Hoppervalley · May 30, 2007, 05:31 PM // 17:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by elektra_lucia

Wouldn't need to use gaze of contempt if iway warriors knew how to interupt(which they don't, and will never).

I observed some points you said (and didn't say) :

• Adding health on a prot monk instead of the correct armour.
• Using Chop chop over extend panda as a quote for 'positioning'
• Using -2 energy offhand instead of extra armour shields (which is much much more important)
• The best way to save a spike is infuse.
• Using glyph on a heal bar with little 10 energy spells.
• The fact you mentioned 'those about to rock' as a 'good' monk.
• Happily showing you don't know how to set attribute points.
• Not talking about 20% enchant.
• Can not save rt spike with prot spirit and spirit bond (lolol)
• Mending touch and RC on the same prot bar.
• Using two monks and "draw condition is over kill on the healer".

After this, I realised that people must get brain washed (some newb who joins these forums and reads all these threads is just going to remain to know nothing). I can kind of empathize why wammos are wammos. They get told by some guy they look up to that using mending is good and the next thing you know EVERY wammo is using mending.

I also concluded the only way for you so happily to talk like you knew anything when you didn't, was because you IWAY'd. So that is no surprise, really.

Spirits in an iway team hurt monks. IWAY heals. That is the point, to heal and to increase attack speed. I don't know why you would put a monk in an iway team. I go to bed late but hey I don't think oh my everytime someone uses mirror of disenchantment I'll point a mirror at my screen and then it won't work...

I never started a glyph vs channeling argument either. I can see the room for debate when you have lots of ten energy spells, but when you mentioned it on a healer with few ten energy spells I felt there was no room for debate. It was a simple case of wrong or right.

This sounds awfully rude and there is no way to say it. You've just shown yourself to be a monk who doesn't know how to monk, and doesn't know a good monk when he sees it; in addition, wanting to inflict his ignorance on others. If I was new to this game I would want good advice. These threads are worse than an angry troll. An angry troll can be seen as angry and people don't usually take notice of him or absorb his nonsense.

O i'm sorry i have open mindedness to go out and test off the wall ideas and see if i can put something together out of it. An in real life friends who i consider a less than stellar player built an IWAY team and asked me to fill the infusing paragon slot, never played IWAY but i thought "what the hell" I'll give it a shot for my friend. And since we are on the point i'll go ahead and soil my hands in the matter, if you are poor enough at your energy management that you need to go deep into a single attribute to get a skill that forces you to play close to the enemy then with the exception of few and i might note very specific builds then you are a bad monk. Your only reasonable argument for channeling is that it will net you more energy than glyph so basically you are saying I opt for channeling because Glyph doesn't give me enough energy to maintain. Glyph does me enough Energy to maintain, it can not be stripped, i can cast it off my high energy set switch back and cast off zero energy. Glyph in all ways if you are a good monk is by far a superior skill. If you have opted for channeling I auto label you as a player who makes poor skill selection and has to spam skills to make up for his inability to accurately access what skills will have the most dramatic impact on the battle.Also I've found i do a lot less casting than most monks in the game, because of my extended experience and practice in this respect. I'd further like to add that every time another monk opts for channeling I spend the better time trying to keep him alive, as he happily spams away in the middle of a large pack, where unbeknown to him a very thin Shield of absorption/shielding hands/guardian/aegis/etc... is separating him from a hell of a lot of hurt. The only time i ever need more energy is when i get stuck with two of these channeling bird brains. By not running channeling, I can be assured my energy management is there when i need it (let me know when you figure out how to strip a glyph) My spells are more effective (my attribute points are much more focused than the channeling build). i am less likely to be on the ground or to be interrupted (cause oh yeah melee characters do that huh, maybe i should avoid them? seems like a good idea to me). I am more accurate in my ability to count, maintain, and manage my energy. I know exactly how much I am getting approximately when i am getting it (giving room for when i have to stop to infuse or what have you). I am able to figure up exactly how many spells I can cast over the course of the next minute I don't have to rely "if well i cast this many spells there are this many people around, and i don't get interrupted, and i don't get put in the dirt, and their teams isnt well coordinated in their movements, and they aren't using AoE I'll have to move away from." My play style is more accurate, better at accessing exactly what it can do comfortably thus leaving me energy to respond to emergencies, better at responding to those emergencies when they occur. As to your rabid badgering of my friends, I can only conclude that your poor skill selection forced them into playing in a much more frantic and urgent manner because in their mind "Oh crap i gotta relieve some pressure cause this guys gonna die soon" and if you haven't played with them then you saw them in observer mood, which speaks mounds for itself doesn't it? Your poor skill selection, obvious misunderstanding of play mechanics, criticism of two players that many have noted as one of the best warriors out there and the other I wouldn't dare stutter when i call a rising star in the monk community, your obvious misunderstanding of simple skill selections for younger players to build off of, your inability to understand what a utility slot is and why it will be changing constantly to fit the meta game as you insist on ramrodding your rigid and limited build without any thought of "ok this will be good some days but what skills to i need to keep in mind to adjust on other", your apparent inability to see that my stat point distribution is a very standard 11/10/10 split modified by runes to reach certain break points depending on my bar, and finally your inherent ability to criticize, which i hesitate to even call an ability, without even an inkling of forethought as to whether it is possible the build you are criticizing is as good or possibly superior to the one you are currently running, for all these reasons my responses to you have become more and more hesitant as i feel i am totally wasting my time, however I'm afraid that if uncorrected and unexplained your criticism will lead future monks astray. I'm also afraid that if I don't keep trying your suggestions I'll fall victim to hypocrisy and while I can vouch that, yes your build does work, it is by far inferior. A point I think is incontestable as our only key difference is channeling vs. GolE and after having extensively played both I know that until one is changed GolE is superior, oh we are also different in that I'm not narrow minded enough to criticize before I try your build to a great extent so as to be sure I am able to accurately access its good and bad points, instead of allowing m inexperience with it to conflict with its actual ability. Angry Troll enough for you?

elektra_lucia · May 30, 2007, 05:55 PM // 17:55

Lol. Stripping a glyph - no, it's a glyph, can not be stripped. Easily interupted, plus for the teams which run aegis it makes it VERY obvious when you are going to cast aegis. There is nothing forcing you to sit in the enemy with channeling, you can cast then run out. You can check your energy by looking around, if there is four enemies in one place you know you'll get four energy. It's pretty basic logic. Mantra of flame works nice at the moment too. You can run that with channeling. I don't doubt GoLE as a bad skill but when you mention it on an LOD bar (another thread) with little chance of using more than a five energy spell? Stupid idea.

Chop chop - one of the best warriors? I disagree; in addition, if you noticed my point was merely about his weakness - over extending. So quoting him as an example for positioning seemed like a BAD quote. May a 'good' player like to back me up on this.

As I said, I played with glyph of lesser energy when I monked for illicit awakening. Ironically, in a HoH battle when we got ganked I found it harder to maintain energy. So I would have loved channeling.

For GVG it is a different matter.

I do observe matches (a lot of players do), though I prefer to observe the matches I play. I play any build the leader asks for. I joined a group with those about to rock, I didn't dictate the bar. He simply monked bad.

So your assumptions were, well, nonsense.

People usually attack you. If you have a thumper and his pet attacking you, you don't have to stand in AOE. You will get the two energy from channeling. Channeling maybe stripped but it recharges fairly quickly.

What you conclude makes no difference, you're the one putting up your garbage threads filling people with garbage information.

Hoppervalley · May 31, 2007, 02:48 AM // 02:48

i think you missed my point i was trying to say that glyph can't be striped, it was sarcasm.

elektra_lucia · May 31, 2007, 01:33 PM // 13:33

You'd be wrong in thinking that.

Lord Natural · May 31, 2007, 05:17 PM // 17:17

Too hard on energy to be useful under high pressure or a double team scenario. More viable in gvg, as chances are if there's a spike it will include melee. But in HA there's a ton of crap rolling around, and not all of it melee. You'd be better off running channeling, guardian and saving the elite slot for something more practical. Glyph stinks in HA, but that argument has been beat to death already.

Mental Leteci · May 31, 2007, 06:21 PM // 18:21

Lord Natural you realize that SoD blocks both, melee and range attacks?

Oh and also, I'd like to add that guardian is a crap skill, so is Psychic Distraction. With love, Leteci

Hoppervalley · May 31, 2007, 09:04 PM // 21:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mental Leteci

Lord Natural you realize that SoD blocks both, melee and range attacks?

Oh and also, I'd like to add that guardian is a crap skill, so is Psychic Distraction. With love, Leteci

Gaurdian is actually a really good skill. I mean if you toss it on a guy who's taking mellee hate he just stops dying. Slows their adrenalin gain to a crawl. Makes assassin chains impossible. I really do like guardian i just never can seem to find room on my bar for it.

elektra_lucia · May 31, 2007, 10:18 PM // 22:18

distractblow

expose defenses

exhaust assault

disrupting stab

> Gaurdian

Ultra Mega · Jun 01, 2007, 12:33 AM // 00:33

Blind > Distracting blow/stab exhausting assault.
Holy Veil > expose defenses

Look it is easy to state counters to something, but because it has counters doesn't make it a crap skill. Guardian is a good skill.