Curse

Sile · May 18, 2007, 03:07 PM // 15:07

What are your opinions and thoughts on this skill? I honestly dont think this skill sees enough play. For shutting down casters etc stacked with a good cover hex, I dont think there is a better supression skill.

Perhaps something like this? No self heal however. Probably use this build in maybe HA and most likely GvG. Hence the hard res.
http://gwshack.us/2d81b

Exhaustion is impossible to remove, and even though you shift yourself up into a high priority target (As if you werent already one)

Narcism · May 18, 2007, 03:21 PM // 15:21

1) Most people swap cast, so even getting having them cast through one Arcane Languor won't do much.
2) Most people don't sit at max energy (or max energy - 10) if they, you've probably already lost.
3) Skill for skill, eliteness aside, Diversion is better then Arcane Languor imo because it:
3a)-Prevents casting
3b)-And if you do cast, it has a significant drawback

poobert · May 18, 2007, 03:26 PM // 15:26

I cant see much use in it other than catching a silly hex necro while they are busy spamming hexes.

I suppose you can put huge pressure on a prot monk then cast it on them and stop attacking just before they die. This will screw them up while you kill off the rest of the team. If the monk is still alive but exhausted while you kill the enemy, it will do wonders for their team spirit.

Narcism · May 18, 2007, 03:39 PM // 15:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by poobert

I cant see much use in it other than catching a silly hex necro while they are busy spamming hexes.

I suppose you can put huge pressure on a prot monk then cast it on them and stop attacking just before they die. This will screw them up while you kill off the rest of the team. If the monk is still alive but exhausted while you kill the enemy, it will do wonders for their team spirit.

Things like this don't happen in game. You don't nearly kill something, just so you can put exhaustion on them. It just doesn't work like that.There are just so many other factors.. what if a warrior gets blind? snared? aegis goes up? the prot monk can definitely afford to cast 1 maybe 2 spells through languor.. Arcane Languor DOES only last 7 seconds.

TMWNN · May 18, 2007, 03:44 PM // 15:44

imo a heavily underated skill, people say diversion is better theres no reason you cant have both on the one bar anyway.

works well in a heavy pressure build where monks need to constantly be casting.

poobert · May 18, 2007, 04:08 PM // 16:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Narcism

Things like this don't happen in game. You don't nearly kill something, just so you can put exhaustion on them. It just doesn't work like that.There are just so many other factors.. what if a warrior gets blind? snared? aegis goes up? the prot monk can definitely afford to cast 1 maybe 2 spells through languor.. Arcane Languor DOES only last 7 seconds.

I suppose you are right, but otherwise I really cant see it being any use if you are not seriously exhausting a monk/hex spamming necro with it. (Does exhustion stay once you are dead?)

If you catch an assassin or dervish casting spells they already have low energy pools so it might be usefull, but no one else will really mind. I have mesmered against people using the skill, and if i some how dont interupt it, it usually wears off before I actually need to do anything. I cant see why eles would even flinch.

Shuuda · May 18, 2007, 04:22 PM // 16:22

When I use this skill, I normally Echo it with high fast casting, lasts atleast 25 seconds overrall then, and bring interruptions.

moko · May 18, 2007, 04:36 PM // 16:36

Echoing skills in PvP is usually a very bad idea.

Mantra of Recovery simply outplays this, and Diversion as normal skill is more powerful. a very well timed Diversion can change a lot, while a very well timed Arcane wouldn't change that much, it's just exhaustion afterall.

the only good thing about this skill is that it's linked to FC and not Domination (on the other side, MoR outclasses it, again), allowing you to have some shutdown in other bars, but i'm not sure if that would be too effective.

suppose it's time to make a little test and see if i find something worth using with this skill. =P at least i'm sure there's no reason to use it with Domination.

Narcism · May 18, 2007, 05:22 PM // 17:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by poobert

I suppose you are right, but otherwise I really cant see it being any use if you are not seriously exhausting a monk/hex spamming necro with it. (Does exhustion stay once you are dead?)

If you catch an assassin or dervish casting spells they already have low energy pools so it might be usefull, but no one else will really mind. I have mesmered against people using the skill, and if i some how dont interupt it, it usually wears off before I actually need to do anything. I cant see why eles would even flinch.

You can't seriously exhaust someone with this skill, unless they're severely lacking in the brain department.

remmeh · May 18, 2007, 06:24 PM // 18:24

You can if you get a ranger to bring Equinox! then you dedicate TWO elites to generating exhaustion.

but seriously, Diversion > Arcane Languor in all aspects without even taking into account the elite status. If someone casts one spell through Diversion, they can't use that spell for another minute. If someone casts one spell through Arcane Languor, that spell isn't disabled... you just get 10 exhaustion which goes away after 30 seconds.

I suppose one could make the case that Arcane Languor might be fun to put on a monk while he spams spells trying desperately to keep the party alive... but you can do the same thing with Diversion, and it's also a billion times more versatile.

Shuuda · May 18, 2007, 06:29 PM // 18:29

Moebius and Exhausting won't work, due to the fact that Exhausting assault follows a lead attack (AkA not Moebius)

remmeh · May 18, 2007, 06:49 PM // 18:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shuuda

Moebius and Exhausting won't work, due to the fact that Exhausting assault follows a lead attack (AkA not Moebius)

it's good i don't know that. because it's a bad build regardless.

Riotgear · May 19, 2007, 03:07 AM // 03:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shuuda

Moebius and Exhausting won't work, due to the fact that Exhausting assault follows a lead attack (AkA not Moebius)

So you use your lead attack instead of Moebius and then you hit Exhausting again?

But anyway, Arcane Languor's effect is just bad. The targets you'd want to hit with anti-caster hexes are the ones that care the least about exhaustion. And a 15 second recharge? Please.

Living Parasite · May 19, 2007, 03:18 AM // 03:18

The hex is pretty powerful however Diversion is a slightly better skill (even w/o faster recharge) b/c it can shut down an important skill. It also falls into Fast Casting, which really isn't the best attribute.

Patccmoi · May 19, 2007, 11:07 PM // 23:07

Honestly, i think this skill could have potential but only in a gimmick build based around it and likely forcing straight up combat (ala Jade Isles). In HA it could've been potentially interesting too if it wasn't for kill count where you have absolutely no time to stack exhaustion on anyone.

Because i think that this is great only in conjunction with Equinox. Because it takes out (or at least greatly reduce) the one big weakness of the skill : it has to be used on the same person repeatedly or it is wasted. While Diversion can be thrown on different targets all the time if you want to and depending on what's needed, ALanguor has to be used on the same target over and over because otherwise 1-2 'strikes' of exhaustion hardly affect anyone and it's gone fast.

For exhaustion to threaten a monk, it has to reduce his energy to something like <15-20E on his normal set so that he can't chain 2 x 10E spells back to back, and then again they likely have a high energy set for when that's required. For offensive casters, they often require a bigger energy pool imo since they often need to chain cast spells and exhaustion can be more debilitating to them fast if they get below 20-30 max E.

If you don't have Equinox, it means that you need your target to cast something like 4 times through Equinox under a minute (since in that minute 2 strikes are cleared) if you want any kind of effect. And since ALanguor has to be used on the same target over and over, only a braindead guy wouldn't notice before he's in trouble that you're going to cast it on him again, so he can just be careful about it. Especially since Languor takes effect on skill activation and not on skill ending, so you can't 'catch' them with it just before a skill ends like Diversion can (sometimes a skill gets Diverted without you ever seeing the hex cast on you cause it hits you too close to skill completion).

If you have Equinox, if you catch 2 casts back to back (and this can happen in certain situation, for example casting it on Infuser during a mini-spike) you already take 40E out of the guy straight. Now that's very significant because that caster is likely in deep trouble afterwards, and if you catch them once again they're basically out of the fight absolutely and totally.

But seriously the kind of team setup that would work with this is like 2 Mesmers with Languor, a Ranger with Equinox doing condition pressure, possibly an Assassin or R/A with Exhausting Assault or a warrior and a second warrior. You want high pressure to force them to cast and constant Mesmer pressure on their backline. But you'd have to sacrifice a lot of utility and splittability, so i can't see this working as anything but a gimmicky build in Jade.

Razz L Dazzle · May 19, 2007, 11:58 PM // 23:58

The only time i remember using it and thinking it was ok was when everyone was taking a Air of enchantment smiter who needed to spam in order to pressure. I'd put it up and if the smiter cast through some then he lost a lot of pressure and got exhausted, if he didn't at least the smiter was temporarily shutdown. While it was fun for a few matches i realized it didn't have much use if there wasn't a smiter, and i gave it up for better elites.

Riotgear · May 20, 2007, 07:20 AM // 07:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patccmoi

If you have Equinox, if you catch 2 casts back to back (and this can happen in certain situation, for example casting it on Infuser during a mini-spike) you already take 40E out of the guy straight. Now that's very significant because that caster is likely in deep trouble afterwards, and if you catch them once again they're basically out of the fight absolutely and totally.

I dunno, I'd rather have MOR+Shame for that.

Apok Omen · May 20, 2007, 08:27 AM // 08:27

Arcane Langour is just one of those many skills that won't see the light of day. Exhaustion is not that harmful as opposed to frequent e-denial.

Patccmoi · May 21, 2007, 04:19 PM // 16:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

I dunno, I'd rather have MOR+Shame for that.

It's not really the same. Honestly if you get 40-60E worth of exhaustion on a non-ele caster, it can be a total and absolute shutdown with no way to get out of it (except waiting it off ofc, but you're shutdown during that time). And if i got Exhaustion, i'd be much more tempted to throw that on offensive casters than monk too because they tend to require larger energy pool. But without Equinox, that's totally unrealistic.

Something like ALanguor, Shame and/or Diversion can be nice to mix shutdown on offensive and defensive caster, but you'd need a good energy engine to power it (not too hard if you use like AI + some 25E spell. Deep Freeze is quite awesome for that since the effect works at 0 water, especially if you got high FC).

A build like

11+2+1 Domination (i know Major sucks, but 1 major isn't that bad in my experience when the build requires breakpoints)
11+1 Fast Cast
8+1 Inspiration

Arcane Languor
Diversion
EBurn
Shatter Enchantment
Auspicious Incantation
Deep Freeze
Power Drain
Rez Sig

could possibly do a nice mix of shutdown + spike assist and has a nice utility with a FC Deep Freeze too. Energy should be sufficient with AI/Deep Freeze + PDrain.

I wouldn't really run this without Equinox though cause Languor effect is just too slow otherwise.

Symbol · May 21, 2007, 05:32 PM // 17:32

Meh, I'd rather have them change exhausting assault so it can follow a lead or an offhand. That's the most practical way to inflict exhaustion IMO-because it's also an interrupt.

Exhaustion by itself isn't nasty enough to bother with unless the skill is really aggressively priced in terms of cast/cost/recharge.