Curse

yesitsrob · May 31, 2007, 01:13 PM // 13:13

Quote:

Shadow Stepping is also fine, Eles have Ride the Lightning anyways

Clueless much.

Quote:

There aren't many skills which cause Dazed, why must the ones that do be nerfed?

Because dazed is immensely powerful - and there is only one suggested nerf and that's BHA - you can sit your ranger on the condition removal monk and stop him from getting a skill of for a very long time. This really "forces" you to bring reliable off monk condition removal - possibly even backup incase one gets shut down... A lot of teams can have a warrior or their ranger mend touch it off... but all in all that's a lot of work to prevent guarenteed death.

Concussion shot is a buff to make it a viable choice instead of just Savage + Distrct

Quote:

That's a good point, if you want to crack some skull with your sin energy is pretty tight. If you nerf black lotus most people aren't even able to finish one combo. Without black lotus a lot of sin skills would become rather unviable.

As is BL provides enough energy to use an IAS and use 3 other attack skills, that really is a bit much - with a slight nerf it would probably make an IAS less viable / or an exposed defenses before hand less viable. It most certainly wouldn't make it impossible to get off combos however

_

Searing Flames nerf I would love. It's so mindless and extremely good at spiking and pressure that even.... [T... ... I love you Skuld.

Quote:

And Paragons...Why must they be shot from the sky AGAIN and be murdered by a pack of ravenous wolves before being left to rot in the sands? I don't agree with any of the Paragon changes.

Then you musn't have seen Paragons in PVP, or maybe you don't care about Paragons in PVP? Likely

Blame the Monks · May 31, 2007, 01:18 PM // 13:18

Good fixes. I agree with almost all of them and they show a hell of a lot better understanding of the game than any patch in the last 18 months. Please, please follow this list verbatim Izzy. Recall and Hexes are your priority nerfs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

Conc/Broad

Thinking about it a bit, I'd put it on 15e, 2...6s Daze, and 10r, with the intention of upping the recharge to 12-15 if it proves to be too good. Short daze is interesting for the windows it creates. I'd like to see that be part of the game.

I agree with your overall reasoning of these skills (draw should not be required) and I like the idea of a short term, reasonably spammable daze with a short term recharge. I think this would do a lot to keep splits alive and viable even against a single monk sent back and so forth. I like the 15 2...6 10r much better than just nerfing daze duration.

Broad I would like to see its insane duration kept the same but add a condition -- This skill cannot be used on nearby foes (like the pve wurm elite). This would make the flight time relevant but will still be crushing if you landed it on a really stupid player.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

Agg Ref

So while Aggressive Refrain is really good, I don't think it's problematic. No need to hit it then, when there are plenty of problematic skills around still.

I disagree. Its still an unremovable, permanent IAS boost with no cost and no drawback. Para damage is lower than warriors only because of crit rate and role (people use paras only as spikers who add some burning support and utility). Paragons are fundamentally support casters, and their damage potential should reflect this.

The 6a nerfs will help, but the duration still needs to be lowered to 2...10..12s or so to make it a real challenge to keep it up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

Blur

Another really good skill that's on the edge, but isn't really central to the problem (certainly not with hexes with 2x, 4x uptime floating around). I'd categorize it with Price of Failure, Spirit of Failure, Insidious Parasite, and the like that are strong hexes counterbalanced by high costs and long recharges.

Disagree. Too powerful, lasts too long. It may have a reasonably high recharge and cost, but the effect is definitely worth the cost. PoF/SoF likewise need a duration nerf, because they still wreck a toon for a long time and there is no reasonable chance of removing them against a hex spam team.

3...12...15 duration

Other Changes:

SoF/PoF need to be nerfed to last 10 seconds at the most, but the effect can be increased. Short term gunking up a warrior is fine, even if removal can't keep up but the shutdown should never be permanent. Slower attack speed I think your changes are good, but I still think the blur/reck/sof/pof needs a hit.

I would like to see some hit to passive defense. Maybe something as simple as a cap on block % (say 75%) and armor (say 40 armor). This isn't well thought out, just something I think hurts gameplay in general -- overly defensive teams that have aegis, wards, blindbots, stances, and then just sit and caster spike.

I think some of the water hexes need to be looked at. Specifically, I think gust should be 10r and Icy should be 1...8..10 15r. Make icelocking more difficult than it is now, but don't destroy ice.

If anyone cares about 4v4, spirit spam still needs to be looked at.

moko · May 31, 2007, 01:34 PM // 13:34

excellent list, i can't say that i really disagree with any of it. with these changes, i would LOVE to play a lot more again.

_________________________________________

KEEP YOUR PvE CRAP OUT OF THIS TOPIC! i'm sick of deleting posts of people who have absolutely NO clue and 5 others replying to it while the site loads 5 minutes. this is about a PvP balance, so please do not post if any of your points refer to PvE. anymore of those and i'll seriously rage at you all< lol.

Quote:

If anyone cares about 4v4, spirit spam still needs to be looked at.

i personally wouldn't mind a buff to Banishing Strike or Unnatural Sig making it adjacent spirits or anything, not other players, just spirits -- bringing a skill just against Spirits is already really hard on 4v4 teambuilds (lack of space) so it should at least be a good one.

Burton2000 · May 31, 2007, 02:20 PM // 14:20

I really dont see the problem with BHA. Sure you can daze the rc but seriously when did people stop bringing draw on an e/mo or mesmer? And saying you can shutdown the draw is a load of rubbish imo.

Patccmoi · May 31, 2007, 02:27 PM // 14:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

I think you want to buff it enough to make it competitive with Distracting and Savage Shot. Right now every single Ranger bar has those two interrupts, because they are without question the best and there are no substitutes.

Thinking about it a bit, I'd put it on 15e, 2...6s Daze, and 10r, with the intention of upping the recharge to 12-15 if it proves to be too good.

Short daze is interesting for the windows it creates. I'd like to see that be part of the game.

That would be pretty interesting. I'd be much happier with this than with the current one which is really expensive but has a retarded duration if it can't be removed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

That's a good one. It's right on the edge.

Here's something to start with - a Paragon is not a Warrior in any way, shape, or form. I've never seen anyone try to run a Paragon as a Warrior substitute - it's always there as some sort of midline support guy. The damage is very good, to be sure, but it's not a melee replacement.

Never meant that it was, just that DPS is comparable for auto-attack to melee that can hit his target without kiting, and i'm not too sure that this is a good thing.

But overall i'm fine with what you say about Aggressive Refrain. If all the other changes you suggest are implemented, you already nerf a big part of what's wrong with Paragons atm, so a change to Aggressive Refrain wouldn't necessarily be required.

However, if the other changes you suggest aren't done, it needs to be hit hard. And even if they're done it needs to be kept under observation. But nerfing everything at once might just remove the class from PvP play which, although personally i wouldn't care that much because i hate Paragons, shouldn't be what is aimed for.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

Another really good skill that's on the edge, but isn't really central to the problem (certainly not with hexes with 2x, 4x uptime floating around). I'd categorize it with Price of Failure, Spirit of Failure, Insidious Parasite, and the like that are strong hexes counterbalanced by high costs and long recharges. That said, I wouldn't cry at all if it got tapped on as well - direct comparison with Reckless Haste implies that it's a bit too good.

I think that the 1s cast time is absolutely key to making the AoE part of it matter. 2s cast, adjacent AoE really doesn't matter. If Blurred is just a generic 2s cast, long duration miss chance hex, it perhaps becomes even more part of the problem - any skill in using the skill is removed in favor of it just being another dumb miss chance hex to stack. So I think the thing you tweak on it is definitely the duration, so that it doesn't have the permanent uptime. 8...14 is the number that springs to mind.

I'm absolutely fine with that. I was hesitating about the 2s cast time too cause it would seriously hurt it's strength in skirmish (chance of landing a 2s cast Blurred on a Ranger is laughable unless you got a handy wall) and it does limit how well you can use the AOE effect since it becomes a bit random, though tbh i used Shadow of Fear for a long long time and even with the 2s cast it was pretty easy to hit many melee quite often. Melee tend to converge regularly.

But a simple hit to the duration to something like 8..14 would also likely be sufficient. But i don't consider it good that the skill can be kept up permanently because especially in skirmish this becomes extremely powerful when you can't always have hex removal around.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

I agree entirely, I'd prefer Spirit Burn to be a pressure skill as well. I've suggested it in the past. However A.Net seems set on making it a spike skill, so I'm going to stick with that for now.

Bah, since it's a wishlist I might as well stop thinking about what A.Net might do, and put what would be best for the game there instead.

ANet might seem like they're trying to make it a spike skill, but it's about what they're doing with the full channeling skill set atm. Whatever's not a spike skill in there sucks (well for direct damage spells that is. Not including stuff like Splinter or Warmonger), and giving multiple spike skills to a class that is about as close to a primary healer as you can get without being a monk is just a bad idea. Channeling requires good pressure skills that can score kills but not in a 3-2-1 format. And Spirit Burn is just the natural choice for that.

I'd be very happy if Wielder's Strike was one too (honestly i'd be fully happy if Wielder's Strike had the exact same stats as my suggested Spirit Burn with simply a different condition. A slightly higher damage/slightly higher cooldown would be fine just to differenciate them a bit more too which is why i'd be happier if it was something like max ~90-100 damage at 16 with 8s cooldown. Kinda similar to the current Spirit Burn with just a small damage nerf so that it's less spike-worthy), and leave the spike level skills to Channeled and Gaze which have an appropriate 2s cast. It would make Channeling much more interesting by adding a couple of nice pressure damage skills in there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

Perfect world? No Soul Reaping from spirits or minions, period. Chop the damn head off. Let the PvE lifers go nuts if they're bulldozing zones, it hardly matters.

Still keep SR from your own minions. It wouldn't really hurt PvE much then. Out of that, personally i'd be very happy with something like no spirit, no minion you don't control, and reduce the 'cooldown' on SR to 3s. It would be as good if not better for PvE than what it is now because of SR cooldown reduction but in PvP i can't really see a way to abuse it unless you plan on having a guy suiciding every 3s which sounds like a bad plan.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

Those skills are too powerful even without IAS stances.

Black Lotus Strike is "if you are hexed, I am at full mana to combo your face with, oh and I just landed an offhand so I get to start with my dual attack." This is the skill responsible for crazy long attack combos. It's your setup and your energy management in one shot. It's worth two pips of energy easy, plus whatever you get from critting on it, plus the damage, plus enabling the combo system. Chopping 5 energy off of your combo enabler, and giving it +damage in line with it being a utility skill and not a rawdog beater is entirely appropriate.

Shadow Prison is such an incredibly awesome effect between being a fast recharge offensive teleport, and a hard snare of the target so that they have no choice but to sit there and take it. It's spiking for retards in one nice little package. I think that at the very least you should have to invest points in the skill's attribute if you want your super spiking for retards tool to work. Unlike now, where you put your dump points in it and the effect is still up even after you finished your combo.

The mindset of leaving the problem skills intact, but nerfing everything but the problem skills to try and 'balance' things just makes things worse and slags a lot of skills in the process. When the problem skills aren't even good for the game, I don't understand how there can even be a question.

I fully agree on that. I consider BLS overpowered since it was reduced from 20s to 12s. But i wouldn't want the cooldown to go up again, sins need lower cooldown skills in general not longer, but hitting the damage and energy gain as you did would help balancing it a lot. It would STILL be good at getting energy, just not refilling your bar while being an offhand at the same time.

As for Shadow Prison, i guess your suggestion is about what you can use for nerf while hurting the skill the less overall. Not too sure what i'd want for Shadow Prison atm but i feel it's a little too good so i'd settle for that.

And i really hate the idea of nerfing everything around the problematic skills without touching them. ANet did this repeatedly before and it was always a bad idea imo. For example Mantra of Recovery that got buffed to 5E and then they nerfed skills around it so that they're worse without instead of realizing that MoR was fine at 10E (especially since they buffed Auspicious Incantation which would give you enough energy under MoR to keep it going even at 10E).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

Reduce the weakness to 5 seconds, who cares, it'll still be slag on anything but a Melandru's Dervish. Do it if it makes you feel better about hammering the damage and recharge on the thing. The skill's benefits have to be balanced entirely within the context of being used on a Melandru's Dervish, and from that perspective it's clearly out of bounds. Personally, I want to put a 15 second recharge on the thing. How fast do you charge Eviscerate again?

I think a reduction to 5s would actually help the skill on other templates significantly. When you add -20% weakness rune, and maybe use Featherfoot Grace or Recovery, you'd have it blinking out basically before your next attack (unless it's like Mystic Sweep, so it would still affect you when you try to do a fast spike without Melandru but it wouldn't destroy your DPS unless removed fast). For example Paragons have Wearying Spear with 5s weakness, and with -20% rune, shield and Recovery spirit, it's out before the next attack is thrown even in IAS iirc unless you try to chain it with Harrier's.

Making it more balanced on Melandru Derv and more usable on non-Melandru would help a lot. Atm on every non-Melandru derv i use i rely on Augury of Death cause Dervishes non-elite DW option is just too bad except on Melandru where it's too good (which is dumb).

red orc · May 31, 2007, 02:35 PM // 14:35

Reckless Haste is a 2 sec spell with recharge of 25 that provide you with 25% boost by reduces your output upto 50%.
How is that in a need of a nurf ? and it is the baseline of any curse necro skill bar.
Any blind ranger can send this necro packing for the next minute. Any mes can shut him down for good. Event a gale can do it.
Even if the necro get's off his spell he needs to add another 10 energy spell to make it effective + 5 energy to cover. So you have 30 energy just to shut down 1 melee that can be removed by purge-sig or a well placed holy vail or a hex breaker on the melee or convert hexs that removes them for 15 energy or hivert hexes for 10.

lacasner · May 31, 2007, 02:48 PM // 14:48

What about buffs, lets mention that since nerfs are only half the problem. Personally, I think that certain monk and sin elites should be buffed so that SP and ZB, lod etc. are not the only monk elites used. Also, perhaps buff ranger non-conditional bow attacks, and also tweak some enchant-required sin chain attacks so that more possibilites become available. Anyone agree,or have anythign to add?

bungusmaximus · May 31, 2007, 02:51 PM // 14:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mokone

i personally wouldn't mind a buff to Banishing Strike or Unnatural Sig making it adjacent spirits or anything, not other players, just spirits -- bringing a skill just against Spirits is already really hard on 4v4 teambuilds (lack of space) so it should at least be a good one.

Yeah, saying that noone cares about 4vs4 is pretty daft indeed, I see highly skilled players in TA when I play there. It's a unique format like the others that doesn't deserve to get ruined. Right now spirits and hex spam makes it suck imo. Its either sitting around with your thumb up yoour arse because your entire team is hexed, or people camping spirit nests that make matches last 30 minutes.

Your suggestion about adjacent spirits won't do the trick though imo. People would just spread them a bit more and you would get the shaft nonetheless. How about:
Ethereal Shock: Target foe takes 50 damage, if target foe is adjacent to a spirit target foe takes another 50 damage.
The numbers don't make sense ofc. but sometimes you just need a way to make people come out of their spirit nests other then running in and suiciding yourself. use the spirits against them so to say. Just a random mindfart.

selber · May 31, 2007, 02:52 PM // 14:52

Pretty much agree with everything on the list. 2 minor things:

Aegis: Simple solution - blockchance should scale with Protection Prayers from 10..42..48%.

Blurred Vision: As mentioned before - either reduce the duration or rework the skill at all. I think 10e/1c/12r with 10d at 12 would be fine, if the AoE-aspect gets removed.

Cebe · May 31, 2007, 02:56 PM // 14:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by yesitsrob

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celestial Beaver

And Paragons...Why must they be shot from the sky AGAIN and be murdered by a pack of ravenous wolves before being left to rot in the sands? I don't agree with any of the Paragon changes.

Then you musn't have seen Paragons in PVP, or maybe you don't care about Paragons in PVP? Likely

Instead of saying words to the effect of "Well you 'PvE Noobs' wouldn't understand"...care to actually answer my question and shed some light on it?

Also for the record I take my Paragon into PvP from time to time, but having not used her in PvP extensively I fail to understand why they needs to be so severely nerfed yet again. Eventually they'll end up as casters, with 50 armor, all their shouts costing 50 energy and having 1 energy regen because they're too "overpowered".

...

Riotgear · May 31, 2007, 03:02 PM // 15:02

Aggressive Refrain seems fine, IMO. Possibly drop it to 15%, but it's the kind of thing that the whole class gets balanced around, so other things (i.e. base damage and adrenaline costs) can be adjusted if they're hammering out too many attacks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patccmoi

Whatever's not a spike skill in there sucks (well for direct damage spells that is. Not including stuff like Splinter or Warmonger), and giving multiple spike skills to a class that is about as close to a primary healer as you can get without being a monk is just a bad idea.

This was the problem for casters in general. Low-frequency spell casts require high damage packets to have competitive damage output to even autoattacks, but once they get too high in damage, then you can 321spike with it.

Eles kind of broke the mold when water and GoLE got some major love, but channelling doesn't have that kind of versatility. Warmonger's is a really nasty spell, but aside from that, Channelling is just Air Magic without B.Flash or Gale.

Quote:

Still keep SR from your own minions.

If minions become too expensive, then the costs can be reduced. PvE MMs are probably the weakest justification for SR rebalancing for that very reason.

Quote:

Not too sure what i'd want for Shadow Prison atm

I think removing it from the game would be a nice start, personally.

Quote:

Originally Posted by red orc

Reckless Haste is a 2 sec spell with recharge of 25 that provide you with 25% boost by reduces your output upto 50%.
How is that in a need of a nurf ? and it is the baseline of any curse necro skill bar.

No, the baseline of any curse necro skill bar is Faintheartedness. And p-bond.

pah01 · May 31, 2007, 03:06 PM // 15:06

Dear Ensign,

I agree with most of your wishlist except for these three.

1. Avatar of Melandru. In my opinion avatar of melandru should not be immune to conditions. It should be reworked to play like lyssa - hit with an attack skill and lose a condition. This means that Blind will actually be useful again.

2. Aggressive refrain. I completely agree with your statement that passive global defence needs to be looked at to make paragonway teams pointless, but this skill does allow a paragon to output comparable damage to a warrior. This needs a rework.

3. I completely agree with your argument that daze needs to be short in duration so that it creates short windows of opportunities. I would love for you to apply your genius to give the debilitating anti-melee hexes shorter durations and cast/recharge times that would actually work in the same way your present Daze..

Yours sincerely

Joe

Patccmoi · May 31, 2007, 03:07 PM // 15:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celestial Beaver

Instead of saying words to the effect of "Well you 'PvE Noobs' wouldn't understand"...care to actually answer my question and shed some light on it?

Fair enough if you care about the answer.

Paragon-based teams atm are a serious problem because they bring both heavy defense + heavy offense on the team and are EXTREMELY hard to kill (harder than a warrior in most cases because they never use Frenzy and never overextend and tend to have better armor against elemental). Their spears are both good pressure and good spike. They have an extremely powerful energy engine when using 4a shouts like WY! and GftE! (which is why Ensign is suggesting to raise them at 6a) that allows them to use high energy skills more efficiently than most casters.

This lead to totally degenerate team builds of mass Paragons. In the last GvG tournament, the team finishing second (Cry) played most of the tournament with a team build consisting of 5 Paragons, 2 Monks and 1 Hydro flag runner. And HA is in large part dominated atm by teams consisting of 3 Paragons + 3 Steady Stance/Fear Me! warriors or sometimes even 8 Paragons.

Masses of Paragons are extremely hard to kill because they have insane armor and tons of unremovable buffs like Stand your Ground! (and since Paragons hardly have to move they always have that +24AL on top), Watch Yourself! (warrior skill but Paragons use it more than wars for obvious reasons), Defensive Anthem chains, etc. and unlike any other similar team with very heavy defense with maybe the exception of Rt spike (also asked to be nerfed), they also have high killing power.

An armor nerf wouldn't seriously hurt Paragons in PvE, they'd still have very high armor with the shield and they're not frontline tanks, warriors are. Some of the nerfs would likely hurt them a bit, but considering how degenerate Paragons are in PvP something needs to be done about them.

Cebe · May 31, 2007, 03:09 PM // 15:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by selber

Aegis: Simple solution - blockchance should scale with Protection Prayers from 10..42..48%.

/signed

Best idea so far imo.

And thank you Patccmoi for explaining that

linh · May 31, 2007, 03:19 PM // 15:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burton2000

I really dont see the problem with BHA. Sure you can daze the rc but seriously when did people stop bringing draw on an e/mo or mesmer? And saying you can shutdown the draw is a load of rubbish imo.

So that means you always have to bring draw bot everywhere that BHA go, even when they split and you are just an offensive Ele with only draw ? Forcing to bring skills reduce the diversity and not good.
Also reducing duration of dazed can show the difference between good players and bad players. Now they have to coordinate better to know when use dazed to make a push, not mindless spamming dazed easily whenever it recharges, it makes a totally clueless ranger still be a threat.

moko · May 31, 2007, 03:26 PM // 15:26

doh, Aegis.

for Aegis, personally, i want it to have a shout range.

why? because it's just SO easy to run behind and cast it in safety without having to worry about any sorts of interrupts.

also, i want a MTouch fix. get back the old recharge (4 sec) and make the condition removal based on prot prayers...or a Cripshot buff.

Yichi · May 31, 2007, 03:34 PM // 15:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by lilnate22

this "wish" list is a piece of garbage
SS 10R? it has already BEEN reduced its a ELITE as you said for soul reaping DEAL WITH IT

SS isn't even on the list. I'm glad youre paying attention...

Quote:

Originally Posted by lilnate22

wtf is wrong wit shadow stepping?

Shadow stepping (i.e. recall split) has always been too good. The full radar range allows this on some maps to allow persons to teleport the entire map away and makes playing this mind dumbingly boring requiring very little skill other than to know when to take off and reapply recall. /yawn

Quote:

Originally Posted by lilnate22

WYS?!?! thats been perfgectly nerfed
so has reapers mark

* wtf is D in splinter weap...damage?? you must be joking...hhaha great joke..no really.

spirit rift is garbage..any idiot can see a big white ball that shoots outa the ground...and he has 3 secs to get his butt out.

spirit burn is frikkin 8 secs...fine a 10r wudnt heart
WS has enuff of a annulment on it.. no need

Outside of the spirit burn comment, the rest is either plain retarded or unreadable... could u repost this in english for us please?

Quote:

Originally Posted by lilnate22

paragon bas earmor reduction to 70?!?! wut kinda "camando" goes in the front line w/ the 2nd best armor??? im sry but sum1 thats supposed to "lead" should get max AL

Yet reason number 298520357632507645 why PVE role playing has no place in PVP. Paragons aren't ment to "lead" as you so stupidly put it. The paragon has an amazing offensive capability, but with a ranged weapon, they are more mid line than front line. Most builds running a paragon in them utilize the defensive/support capabilities with them. The armor reduction in question isn't so much for the single paragon, its when you have multiple paragons that makes them rediculous to even touch.

Overall a very nice list that I would love to see implimented to the letter, but given the track record for balances, it'll never happen....

SirJackassIII · May 31, 2007, 03:40 PM // 15:40

Mostly PvE player here, so you can safely ignore evrything I write below.

First off, I agree with your list for ~90%. There are however some issues that need to be worked out since PvE is affected by this as well after all.

1) SR. This is a given. Simply put, no PvE'er is going to care about 0 EN from Spirits. No one. The Minions is worse, since one of PvE's most popular builds runs on it. So, unless you want to see Bone Fiends at 10/15 EN with the same power, 0 EN from Minions isn't going to work. An equally simple and less "ZOMG PVP Sucks"-thread solution is 0 EN from Minions not under your control. Leaves MM in PvE alone, fixes your PvP abuse issues. Unless all Necros in a PvP team start bringing Minions causes issues, which I doubt.

2) 70 AL for Paragons. Would work, Paragon might survive in PvE, but will see it's popularity drop even further. As such, perhaps another aproach to nerfing Paragons could be used instead of this. The main issue I've seen with Paragons is that they work fine solo in a team, but become broken when there's more than 3-4 of them. So, why not tackle that problem? Letting Leadership not trigger of other Paragons would cripple their energygain, which would limit Paragons to 1-2 per team. Much less unstrippable defense to worry about. I don't know, but given the current popularity of Paragons, it doesn't take much more to put them even lower than Mesmers...

3) BHA/CS: I don't really see the problem with these skills. Seems they've been discussed through the thread, but really, the problem is they Daze for a long time? BHA is offset by the 15s recharge and high arc (okay, they run at you...), the other by a 25 EN cost, which is expensive even after Expertise.

Otherwise, no real issues. Shadowstepping over half the radar is fair (earshot would be a bit too small), maybe even 1/3 Radar Range would work. Splinter Weapon maybe a 20s duration instead of 12, but the current one is too long.

Nurse With Wound · May 31, 2007, 03:52 PM // 15:52

This is PVP discussion thread, in PVP forums . Keep your PVE out of it. The amount of posts we had to delete is frightening. If you have no clue about PVP state of the game, don't post. Unhappy with changes? Feel free to post a whining thread in campfire. End of transmission, proceed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by selber

Aegis: Simple solution - blockchance should scale with Protection Prayers from 10..42..48%.

Excellent suggestion. With lack of good, reliable enchantment removals other than point ones, aegis chains ( with GoLE combo )became a real nuisance. This would fix the problem, and still leave aegis as useful skill.

linh · May 31, 2007, 03:58 PM // 15:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirJackassIII

Mostly PvE player here, so you can safely ignore evrything I write below.

First off, I agree with your list for ~90%. There are however some issues that need to be worked out since PvE is affected by this as well after all.

1) SR. This is a given. Simply put, no PvE'er is going to care about 0 EN from Spirits. No one. The Minions is worse, since one of PvE's most popular builds runs on it. So, unless you want to see Bone Fiends at 10/15 EN with the same power, 0 EN from Minions isn't going to work. An equally simple and less "ZOMG PVP Sucks"-thread solution is 0 EN from Minions not under your control. Leaves MM in PvE alone, fixes your PvP abuse issues. Unless all Necros in a PvP team start bringing Minions causes issues, which I doubt.

2) 70 AL for Paragons. Would work, Paragon might survive in PvE, but will see it's popularity drop even further. As such, perhaps another aproach to nerfing Paragons could be used instead of this. The main issue I've seen with Paragons is that they work fine solo in a team, but become broken when there's more than 3-4 of them. So, why not tackle that problem? Letting Leadership not trigger of other Paragons would cripple their energygain, which would limit Paragons to 1-2 per team. Much less unstrippable defense to worry about. I don't know, but given the current popularity of Paragons, it doesn't take much more to put them even lower than Mesmers...

3) BHA/CS: I don't really see the problem with these skills. Seems they've been discussed through the thread, but really, the problem is they Daze for a long time? BHA is offset by the 15s recharge and high arc (okay, they run at you...), the other by a 25 EN cost, which is expensive even after Expertise.

Otherwise, no real issues. Shadowstepping over half the radar is fair (earshot would be a bit too small), maybe even 1/3 Radar Range would work. Splinter Weapon maybe a 20s duration instead of 12, but the current one is too long.

I agree that 70 armor for paragon and no energy from minions will hardly be changed because there will be cry fest from PvE'er and sadly ANet won't want to do that to the community majority ( although it is because most PvE'ers refuse to adapt and cry, not because the changes is too bad).
And as discussing a lot in thread, change to BHA doesn't kill the skill. It is still very good skill, but it will encourage ranger to become better, to know how and when to use it correctly, not spamming it.