Curse

Hoppervalley · May 27, 2007, 06:57 AM // 06:57

The RC monk- The Restore Conditions monk is rapidly finding its way into every party in HA and GvG alike, it is also effective in almost all other pvp formats.

My favorite Build-
13 Protection Prayers-11 +1(scar pattern) +1(rune)
11 Divine favor - 10 +1(rune)
11 Healing - 10 +1(rune)

1-Restore Condition (elite)
2-Reversal of fortune
3-Spirit Bond / Protective Spirit
4-Shielding hands / Shield of Absorption
5-Gift of Health
6-Mending Touch
7-Holy Veil
8-Glyph of Lesser Energy

Reasoning-

1. Restore Conditions removes all conditions from target ally and heals for each removed, and get this 5 energy.... 5! It takes some team coordination but the best way i have used this skill is to bait a few extra conditions onto a target for a wonderful spike heal on top of the flat removal. However, with its very fast recharge it doesn't hurt to just remove conditions as they go on.

2. Reversal of Fortune is widely regarded as one of the best non-elite protection skills, and has been good enough that monks on occasion will even go deep into prot. magic just to get this skill even though the rest of their bar is healing/divine favor.

3. Here i have listed two skills both save generally the same function, that is to catch spikes. However it is very common to have two monks in a party, and you do not want both monks running the same skill so that if they cast on the same person they do not replace the other. Rather if they are running different skills and cast on the same character they will just have a greater effect.

4. Again these two skills serve the same generally purpose of slowing down pressure from lighter damage. Again two monks in the party make sure you coordinate so you do not collide.

5. Now at first many people asked me why i was opting for this skill when i could be more focused by not making the stretch for Healing Prayers. However this skill costs 5 energy recharges decently fast and at 11 where i keep my healing prayers heals for around 100 health. Its typical downside of disabling all healing prayers is negated since i do not run any other skills. I'd also like to note that since me and a friend, Those about to rock, started running this skill a few months back it has become more and more accepted. NOT saying i'm the first just saying "told ya so"(I like to brag

)

6. Mending Touch, this is where things start getting a little controversial and i have had to run the build ALOT to decide which skill i preferred. I've tried several other skills in this position and with the meta game being the way it is i have found this skill to be the most generally useful. Restore conditions can not target you and alot of the time the other monk may not run condition removal because you are an RC monk. When things get hairy for you this skill is like a mini RC just for you.

7. Holy Veil, now this one is according to preference I have seen several other hex removal skills placed here. I (note i said I!) prefer this skill because it cost little energy has a good recharge and does not just remove hexes. While yes it takes a little extra work to remove a hex with this skill it does, while it is still on the target, slow down the other hexes which are being cast on the target, and frequently such as matches against hex overload teams (in which RC is basically dead) become a very useful skill just to place on team mates to be popped off when they call rather than immediately, since while it is on it makes the overload teams life suck.

8. Again this a touchy skill selection, as many people have all sorts of preference for energy management. I have opted for glyph after using an array of other skills (channeling, power drain, leech signet, energy tap, etc.) I have opted for Glyph because; it can not be stripped, it always nets me at least 5 energy (casts for 5 reduces casting cost by 10 for next two spells, i cast two 5 costing spells and i saved 5 energy) I do not have to be close to opponents to "gain" my energy. I can use it to "hide" energy, you can cast with 0 energy while this skill is on you. It can be used in conjunction with energy switch weapons to steal a little extra energy while still getting 4 energy regen (you can switch to your high energy set, cast glyph, switch back and cast two spells at your leisure). I also like that i do not have to dedicate any points into energy storage to get a full effect out of this ability, this allows me to stay more dedicated to my main goal.

Alternate build-
Forgive me i have forgotten how my skill split looked but it was something like

Protection Prayers-11 +1(scar pattern) +1(rune)
Divine favor - 10 +1(rune)
Healing - 8 +1(rune)
Inspiration - 6

1-Restore Condition (elite)
2-Reversal of fortune
3-Spirit Bond / Protective Spirit
4-Shield of Absorption
5-Gift of Health
6-Shielding hands
7-Holy Veil
8-Channeling

Generally i try and comply with whichever my group wants me to run as i like to avoid arguments (less talk more pew pew).

Advantages-
Can net more energy per spell than the glyph set up.
Has more in the way of damage reduction since it runs both Shield of Absorption and Shielding Hands relying on channeling to pay for the skills

Disadvantages-
Takes more awareness to play as you will be in the "fray" of battle to get a decent effect out of channeling, as such you will have to be moving and healing yourself a lot more.
Have to go into inspiration magic to get an effect out of channeling.

I like to leave it to people to decide what they prefer but i hope this gives you a good idea of how to get started.

I'll be making my best effort to post one build a day, hopefully I'm not impeding any rules of this forum, I'm really only starting since the builds page went down on GuildWiki (may i have a moment of silent please?). If there is any build you'd like me to try out or suggestions for one I've already posted please feel free to email me at [email protected].

While I do not claim to be the best player online, I have been playing since day one and have had a great deal of experience in a wide array of positions, i have unlocked a large portion of the skills (all the elites) and can generally get the faction together for any new build in very short order so no real stress trying something new.

Best Wishes,
Theo

P.S. - Am i the only one who wishes Anet would retroactively add fame?

elektra_lucia · May 27, 2007, 12:46 PM // 12:46

As this is an HA thread I'll stick to HA.

Your first bar seems some what retarded. The other monk should take draw, or something. So mending touch is pointless.

I don't see the point in using GoLE on an RC prot. It is like glyphing an infuse - not usually going to happen.

Personally I've been using (though just lately I only randomway =P) this:

channeling, rof, spirit bond (not prot spirit), soa, shielding hands, gift of health (sometimes gaurdian to replace this), veil, rc.

I don't see the point in putting such high attributes for divine, or healing.

Quote:

5. Now at first many people asked me why i was opting for this skill when i could be more focused by not making the stretch for Healing Prayers. However this skill costs 5 energy recharges decently fast and at 11 where i keep my healing prayers heals for around 100 health. Its typical downside of disabling all healing prayers is negated since i do not run any other skills. I'd also like to note that since me and a friend, Those about to rock, started running this skill a few months back it has become more and more accepted. NOT saying i'm the first just saying "told ya so"(I like to brag )

Fair enough that you like to brag. The first part of your post makes you look like someone that doesn't know how to prot though. Those about to rock isn't a good player.

Quote:

7. Holy Veil, now this one is according to preference I have seen several other hex removal skills placed here. I (note i said I!) prefer this skill because it cost little energy has a good recharge and does not just remove hexes. While yes it takes a little extra work to remove a hex with this skill it does, while it is still on the target, slow down the other hexes which are being cast on the target, and frequently such as matches against hex overload teams (in which RC is basically dead) become a very useful skill just to place on team mates to be popped off when they call rather than immediately, since while it is on it makes the overload teams life suck.

I can keep it up with channeling, hard to keep it up with GoLE.

I Brother Bloood I · May 27, 2007, 01:09 PM // 13:09

Gole is good with aegis chain. Which he can dump mending for unless its 2 monk backline. The rest of the build is fine except i prefer spirit bond on rc. Why? I dunno myself... I agree with ur bar lucia except that divine owns and id try to get as much as possible on prot bars that arnt zb. I never have problems with veiling on gole but its prob much easier with channeling

elektra_lucia · May 27, 2007, 01:12 PM // 13:12

With the current balance, you get far more energy from Channeling. With or without aegis. I spoke about the bar he gave anyway.

Spirit bond on an RC makes more sense, it takes more in prot for it to work, than prot spirit...

Then again, you screw up your attributes anyway so I don't know.

Zb sucks, it's for the prots who can't prot that want to make red bars go up. The only use I had for it was when I was playing a one monk backline in HA. Amusing

.

Saphatorael · May 27, 2007, 01:18 PM // 13:18

The problem with this thread is, you have one build. There's 7 other player slots in the team. It's as if you're saying (please correct me if I'm wrong): 'I'm running this, and the rest should just adapt to what I'm running', meaning you're already determining a skill slot (if not secondary) of someone else in the team.

Of course the RC Prot is a popular choice, but there's 8 players in a team, and just because one player wants to run exactly that one bar, the others have to change theirs?

Idiot · May 27, 2007, 04:37 PM // 16:37

Errm this may sound like a nooby question but what armour would you most likely wear?

Hoppervalley · May 27, 2007, 08:45 PM // 20:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Idiot

Errm this may sound like a nooby question but what armor would you most likely wear?

I wear, as you may have noted above, +1 attribute runes in healing, prot, and divine, also +50 health, and the +10 vitae

All my inscriptions are the +health

I avoid energy mods like the plague and generally my bas armor and items give me 23 energy. IF and ill note this is a big if i am having energy problems I'll weapon switch into a high energy set. The reason i do this is cause there will always be at least on random team with some energy hate and with careful weapon switching you can negate their whole tactic by keeping yourself in low energy. Also as i found out long ago a solid monk will rarely need more than 15 energy at any given time to stabilize a player (i hope that makes sense) the problem i see with most younger monks is they are overeager to cast, why cast three spells if you can make one do the work of three? Too many monks just spam away and are soon out of energy and struggling, careful scrutiny of what you cast will make you a much better monk. This is also probably why i opt for GolE since i use it mainly to hide a lil energy rather than for its energy gaining effect. "Energy management should be in your head not on you bar

"

Hoppervalley · May 27, 2007, 09:09 PM // 21:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by elektra_lucia

As this is an HA thread I'll stick to HA.

Your first bar seems some what retarded. The other monk should take draw, or something. So mending touch is pointless.

I don't see the point in using GoLE on an RC prot. It is like glyphing an infuse - not usually going to happen.

Personally I've been using (though just lately I only randomway =P) this:

channeling, rof, spirit bond (not prot spirit), soa, shielding hands, gift of health (sometimes gaurdian to replace this), veil, rc.

I don't see the point in putting such high attributes for divine, or healing.

Fair enough that you like to brag. The first part of your post makes you look like someone that doesn't know how to prot though. Those about to rock isn't a good player.

I can keep it up with channeling, hard to keep it up with GoLE.

I have no intention of making this into a GolE post which is about the only real argument we seem to have and i believe their is indeed a GolE vs. Channeling post you my direct yourself towards, As i said earlier the mending touch is controversial and it is through a great many trials I (<- points to the I) decided i prefer touch, and as I'll note again it is because of the current meta game I have selected it. As for the accusation towards my friend I'll ask you, nicely, to keep your comments about other players to yourself, I find him to be an exceptional monk and if you have played with him and he seemed poor thats your business. In terms our major argument GolE vs. Channeling i can assure you i do not have energy problems even against large pressure teams, something most monks seem to think is the downfall of GolE. I don't have energy problems and if you watched any of the upper teams in HA or GvG we like to keep our players well well out of the way. There is some advice that another player, i believe it was chop chop, gave me "make the other team work to get to you and ill make them pay for trying." Having learned that i naturally want to play towards the back where a good team will make nubs pay for overextending. I'd also like to note that i do find the draw conditions RC synergy quite useful but i find that it is a bit overkill when RC as i noted above does a good job both as spot removal and mass removal.

Hoppervalley · May 27, 2007, 09:14 PM // 21:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saphatorael

The problem with this thread is, you have one build. There's 7 other player slots in the team. It's as if you're saying (please correct me if I'm wrong): 'I'm running this, and the rest should just adapt to what I'm running', meaning you're already determining a skill slot (if not secondary) of someone else in the team.

Of course the RC Prot is a popular choice, but there's 8 players in a team, and just because one player wants to run exactly that one bar, the others have to change theirs?

Yes Sapha i agree that there are 7 other players i was merely attempting to post a general forum of the build, and in situations where the picks vary frequently, in accordance with what the others are running i tried to note alternative choices commonly used. As i said before i am not so narrow minded as to believe that there is only "one way to skin a cat" and i strongly stress to all players that having a diverse skill selection, always having some extra faction, and some solid experience in multiple roles is the only way to remain a good player.Since i've watched alot of players who where astounding at one build fall off the scene when the meta game shifted.

Living Parasite · May 27, 2007, 11:50 PM // 23:50

Use channeling on any non DH, ZB monk. Healing Prayers 11, Divine 9, Prot 12. If you use channeling, lower prot to 11. Mending touch is bad, guardian/Purge when used correctly is much better.

Hoppervalley · May 28, 2007, 03:18 AM // 03:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Living Parasite

Use channeling on any non DH, ZB monk. Healing Prayers 11, Divine 9, Prot 12. If you use channeling, lower prot to 11. Mending touch is bad, guardian/Purge when used correctly is much better.

I'd say ZB is fairly dead it had its day but for now its kinda gone I see it run every once in awhile but every time i have I've wished it was an SOD instead, Again "I DON'T WANT TO CHANGE THIS INTO A CHANNELING VS Glyph OF LESSER ENERGY COMPETITION" Please kindly direct yourself to that post. I've run both guardian and and Purge in that slot it is and i repeat after many trials i have elected mending touch. Purge gets used as a personal rc that recharges in 20 sec instead on 6 and doesn't heal me. guardian slows the rate at which i or an ally take damage from close combat fighters and generally touch serves that purpose better as i can bait two conditions on and then negate all that time they spent with a single cast which spike heals me. Guardian is my second favorite pick however.

Idiot · May 28, 2007, 08:52 AM // 08:52

I don't get why monks use purge signet when you loose I think 10 energy from it.

D Fault · May 28, 2007, 09:46 AM // 09:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Idiot

I don't get why monks use purge signet when you loose I think 10 energy from it.

Switch to your lowest energy set to cast it and you probably wont lose a single point of energy.

God Apprentice · May 28, 2007, 10:41 AM // 10:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Brother Bloood I

Gole is good with aegis chain.

Meh, not really. Auspicious Incantation is better

Frank Dudenstein · May 28, 2007, 11:10 AM // 11:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Idiot

I don't get why monks use purge signet when you loose I think 10 energy from it.

Monks carry around a weapon set with -5 energy weapon and -5 energy offhand so they can quickly lop off 22-27 energy from their max pool. Just switch to that set while you cast purge and quickly switch back ... you will normally lose zero energy.

They also use this weapon set to combat energy denial builds ... they switch to it to 'hide' their energy while not casting ... then switch to their normal (or even +30) set when they need to cast.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoppervalley

The RC monk- The Restore Conditions monk is rapidly finding its way into every party in HA and GvG alike

This statement would be accurate if it was made precisely two years ago (unless you count the beta)

Faith Taylyn · May 28, 2007, 12:13 PM // 12:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by God Apprentice

Meh, not really. Auspicious Incantation is better

I guess you've never had Aegis interrupted after using Auspicious?

I Brother Bloood I · May 28, 2007, 03:12 PM // 15:12

Ouch... But yeh gole is a little more flexible when it comes to interuption and stuff. Plus u get more than 1 spell out of it anyway. I just mention zb cuz ive seen it used. I havent even used it once outside of ra.

elektra_lucia · May 28, 2007, 03:28 PM // 15:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoppervalley

I have no intention of making this into a GolE post which is about the only real argument we seem to have and i believe their is indeed a GolE vs. Channeling post you my direct yourself towards, As i said earlier the mending touch is controversial and it is through a great many trials I (<- points to the I) decided i prefer touch, and as I'll note again it is because of the current meta game I have selected it. As for the accusation towards my friend I'll ask you, nicely, to keep your comments about other players to yourself, I find him to be an exceptional monk and if you have played with him and he seemed poor thats your business. In terms our major argument GolE vs. Channeling i can assure you i do not have energy problems even against large pressure teams, something most monks seem to think is the downfall of GolE. I don't have energy problems and if you watched any of the upper teams in HA or GvG we like to keep our players well well out of the way. There is some advice that another player, i believe it was chop chop, gave me "make the other team work to get to you and ill make them pay for trying." Having learned that i naturally want to play towards the back where a good team will make nubs pay for overextending. I'd also like to note that i do find the draw conditions RC synergy quite useful but i find that it is a bit overkill when RC as i noted above does a good job both as spot removal and mass removal.

Ok firstly, please can you learn to use the edit button... You don't have to post six billion and one times, really.

My opinion of your friend monk (who is a bad monk) was no less or more opinionated than yours. The only difference is that you were premoting his monking, I was demoting it. If you don't like that then don't mention names?

Quote:

"Energy management should be in your head not on you bar "

It should be on your weapon set.

Quote:

I have no intention of making this into a GolE post which is about the only real argument we seem to have and i believe their is indeed a GolE vs. Channeling post you my direct yourself towards, As i said earlier the mending touch is controversial and it is through a great many trials I (<- points to the I) decided i prefer touch, and as I'll note again it is because of the current meta game I have selected it.

Controversial means up for debate if I'm not mistaken? I personally don't see it as up for debate. I think it is a retarded skill to use.

As for chop chop... I've played with him, not very much. He is a good player, but your quote is kind of funny. The ONE thing I would criticize him for is positioning. I don't know why you're bringing up GVG but since you do fair enough. Positioning in HA and GVG are totally different.

He over extends in both, to be fair. The only time I've seen him make a player come to him was when he played ranger spike, with iA. Which was a _LOT_. I don't remmber seeing you on the member list, so maybe you wern't aware of this.

Quote:

Having learned that i naturally want to play towards the back where a good team will make nubs pay for overextending.

This made me chuckle after your quote from chop chop

.

Quote:

I'd also like to note that i do find the draw conditions RC synergy quite useful but i find that it is a bit overkill when RC as i noted above does a good job both as spot removal and mass removal.

Silly comment... RC won't remove daze off of the RC monk...

You might want to consider armour while enchanted as you do not need your health to be so high on a prot as you do the infuser.

You'll still lose energy from purge.

What do you think of this bar:
spiritbond, rc, soa, shielding hands, divine spirit, deny hex's (includes itself thereby removing two hex's), channeling, rof

Patrick Smit · May 28, 2007, 04:58 PM // 16:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank Dudenstein

Monks carry around a weapon set with -5 energy weapon and -5 energy offhand so they can quickly lop off 22-27 energy from their max pool. Just switch to that set while you cast purge and quickly switch back ... you will normally lose zero energy.

They also use this weapon set to combat energy denial builds ... they switch to it to 'hide' their energy while not casting ... then switch to their normal (or even +30) set when they need to cast.

This statement would be accurate if it was made precisely two years ago (unless you count the beta)

To my knowledge -5 offhands do not exist, they can be -2 when u have a low level focus combined with a ignorance is bliss inscription. Maybe im wrong, but normally i would just use a -5 weapon and a shield. If these items do exist im curious to what they are, but then im still not convinced they are generally used.

Hoppervalley · May 28, 2007, 07:16 PM // 19:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by elektra_lucia

Silly comment... RC won't remove daze off of the RC monk...

What do you think of this bar:
spiritbond, rc, soa, shielding hands, divine spirit, deny hex's (includes itself thereby removing two hex's), channeling, rof

The downfall of RC being that it doesn't self target so naturally either the other monk runs an answer or you run another skill for yourself, and i opted for Mending Touch over draw conditions of course i can only,reasonably hit adjacent monks or myself with this skill but I've found its recharge, healing clause and low energy cost make it to tempting.

I hope you'll forgive my slow reply I had never tried divine spirit in that slot so i went and tried it out for the last couple hours first 1 in randoms to get a feel for the bar next 2 in HA.

Here's my take-
Deny Hexes has been moving up my list as one of my favorite skills ever since i started toying with this bar-
Blessed Light/deny hexes/Reversal of fortune/Shield of Absorption/Gaurdian/dismiss condition/Protective Spirit/GolE

The synergy divine spirit and deny hexes has together was rather fun to tinker with and is a nice help in the energy war and cna go one of the same things i love GolE for, hide some energy and while it wont let you cast at 0 like GolE it pretty much will since the 1 energy regen happens between casts.

So half way through testing in randoms i got curious and dropped Channeling on your bar for this -
spiritbond, rc, soa, shielding hands, divine spirit, deny hex's , gaurdian, rof

still no energy problems, except when i had a good player paying attention and strip me following divine, in which case i had to go deep into my high energy set.

In HA however the above set didn't hold its own and i had to go back to channeling to maintain energy. All in all it was a fun bar to play and an exceptional help against the hex overload teams. I did however sorely miss gift against other teams. SO in conclusion I'd say this is another build I'll template and switch to on days when hexes are overly popular, but on a "normal" day i think I'll stick to my standard build.

As a side note if could have gotten divine spirit to give me a little extra in the energy side of life I'd have loved this bar-
Blessed Light/deny hexes/Reversal of fortune/Shield of Absorption/Gaurdian/dismiss condition/Protective Spirit/Divine Spirit

Also i hope you'll excuse my repetitive posting I'm still learning this forum, i moved over since wiki has yet to resolve their builds page. Any suggestions to how i should be doing things ill gladly look into.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick Smit

To my knowledge -5 offhands do not exist, they can be -2 when u have a low level focus combined with a ignorance is bliss inscription. Maybe im wrong, but normally i would just use a -5 weapon and a shield. If these items do exist im curious to what they are, but then im still not convinced they are generally used.

There is a +5 armor -5 energy offhand, "Ignorance is Bliss"

while i get less armor out of them than a shield it is very small difference, 3, and I'm a low energy fan boy