Curse

kyro27 · Jun 30, 2007, 03:07 AM // 03:07

i think that they should make the points double instead of the same amount that you score because its just so pointless and a waste of time when you lose a ab now because you get no faction at all, so when you lose a game you get your score times two, while you win you get times three.

wren e · Jun 30, 2007, 03:43 AM // 03:43

No, there should never be a decent reward for losing in PvP, regardless of the level of competition involved. Rewards should only go to the winner to encourage people to try harder and get better, not promote being afk to get a reward for other peoples work.

Div · Jun 30, 2007, 05:26 AM // 05:26

Anet reduced it to try and get rid of leechers. If it doesn't work out they'll naturally revert it. Otherwise I don't think petitions will help them change their mind.

FoxBat · Jun 30, 2007, 05:44 AM // 05:44

The higher losing rewards was an attempt to stop leavers. They are becoming a much bigger issue since the change.

Riotgear · Jun 30, 2007, 07:30 AM // 07:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by wren e

Rewards should only go to the winner to encourage people to try harder and get better, not promote being afk to get a reward for other peoples work.

Here's what the reduced loser faction has done:
- No change in the number of leechers.
- Major increase in the number of leavers.
- Player counts are significantly less even (usually on the order of 2:1 now) on Grenz Frontier and Etnaran Keys.

Here's a quick news flash: As long as people get faction, ANY faction, for clicking Enter Mission and then playing their Xbox instead, they're going to leech. You could ALWAYS get faction faster than leeching if you actually tried to win, that isn't the point, the point is that in terms of effort spent per faction gained, you can never, ever beat "Click a button once." Especially when the leechers' teammates are still going to net them the bulk of the faction reward if they still win.

This is especially important in ABs and Aspenwood, because unlike RA, one player (or even two) are not going to break your team so badly that you have almost no chance of winning more than a round. There is a good chance that the map is simply going to run its course, and they'll come out with the spoils of an effort they never put forward.

Meanwhile, with 1500 faction for a win and around 200 for a loss (as opposed to the old 1250/400), why bother sticking around for a loss? If I wanted to maximize my faction gain, I'd probably be leaving any game where my team went down by more than 100 points. Oh wait, that's exactly what I do, because Anet has decided to penalize sportsmanship.

Dropping the loser rewards has not made anything better, and has made numerous things worse. They need to revert to the old faction amounts, and go to a simpler technique: If you never move from the spawn point, ZERO FACTION. If they want to solve leechers, then they should be making changes that target leechers, not by punishing the people who are already handicapped by leechers attempting to freeload off of their effort.

Shuuda · Jun 30, 2007, 08:38 PM // 20:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by wren e

No, there should never be a decent reward for losing in PvP, regardless of the level of competition involved. Rewards should only go to the winner to encourage people to try harder and get better, not promote being afk to get a reward for other peoples work.

Althought I don't get a half gladiator point for losing in RA, even at 9 wins which is fine by me. AB matches are longer, and harder to win than RA matches. The rewards should be bigger or smaller depending on the map.

-You get 700-900 faction for losing on a map which you have a disadvantage.
- You get 1700-2000 Faction for winning on a map which you have a disadvantage on.
- Get get 100-0 faction for losing on a map which you have the advantage on.
- You get the same amount of faction for winning on your turf as you would on saltspray (So you still get rewarded for winning)

Ok, it needs work, lots of work.

FoxBat · Jun 30, 2007, 10:28 PM // 22:28

The obvious problem with simple "penalize those that don't move" is they can just update the macros to make them move about a bit. Though maybe this would eliminate some of the leechers, you've got an escelating war that will go on with the others as happened with anti-bot measures.

Div · Jul 01, 2007, 06:16 AM // 06:16

The whole faction thing is a mess right now. Anet needs to do more than just tweaking the faction gain for winners/losers, but that would be a good place to start. Too bad it takes them so long to revert stuff even with petitions...they need to wait for "evidence". Kinda like how they needed evidence spikes are bad in HA, hexes in GvG (oh wait, they still haven't balanced that yet).

Perfected Shadow · Jul 01, 2007, 07:42 AM // 07:42

/signed...

I've been in one too many battles were the score was 4xx - 500. 4xx faction gain to me for that effort really sucks.

Riotgear · Jul 01, 2007, 07:45 AM // 07:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

The obvious problem with simple "penalize those that don't move" is they can just update the macros to make them move about a bit. Though maybe this would eliminate some of the leechers, you've got an escelating war that will go on with the others as happened with anti-bot measures.

Maybe so, some already have their bot cast some spell over and over again. But regardless, the faction changes have done absolutely no good, and it can't possibly be that difficult to detect if, for example, a player has ever left the spawn room, dealt damage to an enemy, or healed an ally that was below 90% health.

Regardless, the new change is terrible, and should be reverted on simple account of the fact that it has failed to produce a single positive result.

Div · Jul 01, 2007, 01:12 PM // 13:12

I think with the introduction of luxon/kurzick skills, people are even more motivated to leech. That said, I don't think making requirements lower will change anything, as some would like to argue.

Raven Nebula · Jul 02, 2007, 10:47 AM // 10:47

The faction changes are retarded in my eyes. They said they want to increase the gameplay in AB...but all they've done is make it less likely for people who didn't play there before to play. If you're on a map that your side doesn't win normally, why play it? So you get fewer battles because you have a lot of luxons waiting to fight 10 kurzicks and vice versa. The only way to make leeching pointless is to give you points for every shrine that you help cap. I actually think that is a good idea anyways. It makes capping an even bigger deal. And one point per kill is just stupid. At least make it 5. One point is just silly.

Saphatorael · Jul 02, 2007, 11:15 AM // 11:15

The 'fix' was implemented to encourage active play... but instead, it just encourages leaving as soon as your opponent gets an edge, since trying to still go for a win will be a futile attempt, so you might as well leave and go in again...

I don't quit though, I just let my character auto-run when we've got a few quitters on our team, it's fun to see 5 Kurzicks chase you from one end of the map to the other, wasting their time (whilst I just chat with guildies or friends) ^^