Curse

Riotgear · Jun 25, 2007, 12:45 PM // 12:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mokone

i could post more skills for every single class that has at least one solution to it but i cba really.

Eles can't really do much, other than try to gale blessed signet.

Distracting Shot is ironically not a great skill for Luxons to bring either, because you get LOSed constantly until the inner gates are down, and at that point, anything works.

Single-removal kind of blows too because even if you catch PS and the gate gets shelled full-force, you're still stuck with the bond stack and your idiot teammates probably aren't going to be able to drop it through two bonds before PS gets reapplied and the NPC gets healed to full from ZB/DK/whatever.

Best thing you can do is bring Rend or GoC and just time it with a shell so it blasts the NPC. With a ranger, yeah, NR+Echoes works nice, it also wastes skill slots and tends to screw your teammates.

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you don't even need to prepare against normal hybrid monks, the energy isn't unlimited, just pressure and energy dies, and if they prot, how about you just switch targets so they waste energy?

Pfft, people aren't coordinated enough and they bring awful builds, you can keep half of your team alive there just by spamming Zealous Benediction on recharge. And that's all it really takes, combined with some simple prot, to handle most builds if the rest of your team is being a bunch of retards and not applying any pressure.

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if there's a fix to the AI coming, Aspenwood should be last on the list, simply because it's not even PvP.

Two teams attempting to complete an objective and stop the other from completing theirs sounds like PvP to me. It's a scrubfest, yes, but saying it "isn't PvP" is ridiculous.

Elrodien · Jun 25, 2007, 12:48 PM // 12:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

Two teams attempting to complete an objective and stop the other from completing theirs sounds like PvP to me. It's a scrubfest, yes, but saying it "isn't PvP" is ridiculous.

Not when half your team are standing back in the base afk it isn't.

Riotgear · Jun 25, 2007, 12:49 PM // 12:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elrodien

Not when half your team are standing back in the base afk it isn't.

So if I get 8 people to enter a GvG match and go AFK, GvG isn't PvP any more?

Aspenwood is just as much PvP as old HoH when the only real objective was to make your ghostly use an ability in a specific spot. The difference of course being that HoH's players didn't tend to suck horribly.

Unfortunately, a good number of elitists on this site can't seem to make that disconnect. Either the excuse is that Aspenwood's real objectives are NPC-based, which never stopped GvG from being "really PvP," or it's because the teams are random packs of idiots, which never stopped RA from being "really PvP."

moko · Jun 25, 2007, 12:59 PM // 12:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

Distracting Shot is ironically not a great skill for Luxons to bring either, because you get LOSed constantly until the inner gates are down, and at that point, anything works.

i've always found a very very good use for dshot. :>

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Single-removal kind of blows too because even if you catch PS and the gate gets shelled full-force, you're still stuck with the bond stack and your idiot teammates probably aren't going to be able to drop it through two bonds before PS gets reapplied and the NPC gets healed to full from ZB/DK/whatever.

you didn't even get my point. have you ever met a monk that actually covers their BALTHS SPIRIT? (oi i typoed that in the other post) energy kinda blows away then. -_-

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Best thing you can do is bring Rend or GoC and just time it with a shell so it blasts the NPC. With a ranger, yeah, NR+Echoes works nice, it also wastes skill slots and tends to screw your teammates.

you take a plain barrow bar and stick NR in for the rez, i'm sorry but where the hell does it waste a slot? it's an important key to winning, it doesn't always help but it's useful. and no, it doesn't screw your teammates, who actually brings hexes or bonds on the luxon side?

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Pfft, people aren't coordinated enough and they bring awful builds, you can keep half of your team alive there just by spamming Zealous Benediction on recharge. And that's all it really takes, combined with some simple prot, to handle most builds if the rest of your team is being a bunch of retards and not applying any pressure.

so you go in as mor and shutdown their monk?

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Two teams attempting to complete an objective and stop the other from completing theirs sounds like PvP to me. It's a scrubfest, yes, but saying it "isn't PvP" is ridiculous.

remove turtles and remove some NPCs on the gate and i'll agree. as you said, the players are so shit, you don't even need good players to win if you have turtles and keep them alive.

imagine you go in a gvg and do nothing, your NPCs just go in the enemy base and kill the guildlord while you're at the flagstand? would you still consider that PvP?

i'm sorry but i've done a lot of aspenwood when i was bored, i've done it on various characters and i never had any troubles on either side as long as long as you had the basics in your build and you arne't an utter retard. on either side, you can basically win the map solo, because the others are so plain awful.

besides, the way you argue implies that hero battles is PvP also, because you are controlling your heroes and fighting against other heroes being controlled by a human.

RA is actually very very very very very much PvP based, because you do absolutely nothing but kill the other team (except the priest, or just leaving..), but it's just very low end.

Riotgear · Jun 25, 2007, 01:23 PM // 13:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mokone

you didn't even get my point. have you ever met a monk that actually covers their BALTHS SPIRIT? (oi i typoed that in the other post) energy kinda blows away then. -_-

I'd rather just cast Rend on the NPC and watch it explode. Then I don't have to worry about "attacking their energy", I just let the 230-damage siege shell do that. And they don't cover Balth. Spirit, yay, I guess forcing them to spend 10 energy on a skill with no recharge is going to devastate them.

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you take a plain barrow bar and stick NR in for the rez, i'm sorry but where the hell does it waste a slot? it's an important key to winning, it doesn't always help but it's useful. and no, it doesn't screw your teammates, who actually brings hexes or bonds on the luxon side?

Hexes are fairly common. Plenty of people run SS, for example, because it's great at cutting through the button-mashers. And not only can you still bond a gate through NR, especially when you can't do anything about Balth. Spirit because everything else on your bar is blocked by the closed gate, but Primal Echoes is just as if not more effective at hurting their energy because it makes Blessed Signet result in a net LOSS of energy. I also find it slightly amusing that you ask who runs hexes there, then encourage running MoR shutdown, but that's also why you don't want to mess up hexers too much: Because if anyone's capable of screwing up a monk through a locked gate, they're probably using hexes to do it.

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so you go in as mor and shutdown their monk?

First off, I'd like to run something other than MoR once in a while and not get screwed by a lone monk that just spams Reversal and ZB on recharge and gets away with it because my team is stupid. Second, MoR tends to lack self-survivability, which is an important factor in a map like Aspenwood where there is rarely going to be a healer to save you from SP or even something as simple as BA. I'd usually wind up having to pack Clumsiness (at 2 illusion) just to not get slaughtered by button-mashers.

That's why, while one person can definitely make a major difference there, it's easy to just fall to numbers and bad teammates. MoR shutdown, for example, isn't going to take down a gate by itself. Taking down a gate isn't going to stop runners on the other side of the map. Both might be glass-cannons that die too often to do their job. You can't cover all bases with one build, the closest you can even come is probably Depravity/Price/SoF, since Wither/Malaise is only -2 energy now.

(Yes, Wither/Malaise was beyond leet since no one there ever swaps weapons)

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imagine you go in a gvg and do nothing, your NPCs just go in the enemy base and kill the guildlord while you're at the flagstand? would you still consider that PvP?

Except that isn't the case, other players are going to interfere. That's why it's PvP, because you don't just push a button and plow NPCs to victory, you have to deal with the interference of other players who are trying to win by making you lose.

If you did nothing in GvG, maybe that would happen, I don't know. I'm sure it would happen if two teams just AFKed out before bodyguards were added.

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besides, the way you argue implies that hero battles is PvP also, because you are controlling your heroes and fighting against other heroes being controlled by a human.

And to be fair, I'd say it is. It's not the kind of engaging team combat that other formats do, but the fact that the dominant factor in your victory or defeat is the actions of another player, yes, it is.

Hearing someone say Aspenwood "isn't really PvP" is like seeing an Indy 500 driver go to a go-kart track and say it "isn't really racing." Yes, it is, it's simply not up to the same standard.

Servant of Kali · Jun 25, 2007, 11:11 PM // 23:11

Please stop arguing whether Aspenwood is PvP or not. It's irrelevant. I call it PvPvE, same with JQ and Alliance Battle. Hero Battles are on the other hand.. i don't know what really

There are NPCs in FA, but if you look closely so are in GvG. A lot of them.

FA is a fun game, whether it's 70% PvP or 80% PvP means nothing to me as long as i enjoy it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pwny Ride

Which planet are you playing on again?

From what i can see, if the kurzicks only need to bring two monks to win, that's hardly balanced. How about we bring enchant removal? Well we do, and if monk enchantments didnt have insanely short recharge times, maybe enchant removal might help.

Im playing on elite planet. If short recharge times on a bonder stop you, you deserve to lose.

When im on a Luxon side, i handle most bonders quite well and rarely lose. You need the right skillset and tactic.

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Taking a build or an elite to specifically counter bonding fails on so many levels

Personally, I don't care what your reasoning is. If people dont think enchant removal pays off, it's good because mostly i play Kurzick side. When im bored, I go and make few runes on Luxon side and suprisingly win most of the matches as well.

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Take shadow shroud for example. Yea sure, it stop enchantments. Monks have divert/deny hexes. And come on, the protection line can heal on its own. You know, the completely broken elite, Zeleous Benediction?

Zealous Benediction isn't completely broken skill. And i can tell you i've never seen anyone in FA use it, at least not lately (on Kurzick side at least). They use other skills. Shadow Shroud is one of the strongest skills if you know how to combo it with other skills. Do you think that every Kurzick monk has Divert/Deny plus Zealous and what not?

Kurzick monk has 8 skill slots, just as you. Remember that.

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Luxons have an advantage in FA?

Luxons had a HUGE advantage for a year, the only people who played Kurzick side were those who sought challenge. ATM i think Kurzick players are becoming more and more experienced, and glitched Luxon Warriors are being a problem too... still, I'd say Luxons even now have an advantage. And you can get 2-3x more faction playing Luxon side.

You know what Kurzicks are actually decent now? Because they learned how to run amber (well most of them), learned they need to bring some defense, learned this and that. Luxons? Naaaah, they cant even bring a single anti-enchant skill, which is the most important thing. They didnt learn that killing players is not important. Killing NPCs is. And hey.. there are other things besides enchant removal which hurt bonders and others. But since i mostly play Kurzick side, i have no wish to type them here. Let's just say you easily figger out all of it when you play both sides

Patccmoi · Jun 26, 2007, 12:22 AM // 00:22

Seriously for all that bonder thing, i played FA Luxon for fun last night and i faced maybe 4-5 bonders, and Expunge Enchant was enough for it every time...

Just tell your team to target the guy (keep calling him), say that you will remove the bond, and when you notice enough people are hitting Expunge him. Usually they just don't have time to react much before the target blows up.

I just don't see how Kurzick can have a real chance in a random setup if anyone on Luxon side brings mass enchant removal. But this map is just meant to be relaxing, not overly balanced, not perfect or anything. It's fine as is, just stupid what they did with the Leecher/leavers. And also stupid how you can gain Faction soooo much faster as Luxon (in like 7-8 games last night i think Kurzick got past 50% once?) as you can when you're Kurzick. Really doesn't make you wanna play Kurzick!

Pwny Ride · Jun 26, 2007, 06:56 AM // 06:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Servant of Kali

Im playing on elite planet. If short recharge times on a bonder stop you, you deserve to lose.

When im the only one of the team that even bothers with enchantment removal, that takes the effort to set a build that counters bonding/enchants/monks in general, i deserve to loose? Nice lesson learnt there.So many players are focused on pure DPS, it's just depressing watching them.

Personally, I don't care what your reasoning is. If people dont think enchant removal pays off, it's good because mostly i play Kurzick side. When im bored, I go and make few runes on Luxon side and suprisingly win most of the matches as well.

Dont put words into my mouth. I think enchantment removal is well worth it. I use Shatterstorm to counter it regularly, but if only one person is bothering to play in such a way, it's really a letdown, expecially when you reach Gunther, and youre the only one even trying to get rid of the healers.

Zealous Benediction isn't completely broken skill. And i can tell you i've never seen anyone in FA use it, at least not lately (on Kurzick side at least). They use other skills. Shadow Shroud is one of the strongest skills if you know how to combo it with other skills. Do you think that every Kurzick monk has Divert/Deny plus Zealous and what not?

Kurzick monk has 8 skill slots, just as you. Remember that.

The hex removal spells where only examples (as well as Shadow Shroud). Explain to me how Zeleous Benediction isn't completely broken, since it heals more than some elites that are in the healing attribute. It shouln't be providing direct healing at all if it's stationed in the protection line (besides from levels in divine favour.)

I didnt mention 8 skills, i mentioned three.

Luxons had a HUGE advantage for a year, the only people who played Kurzick side were those who sought challenge. ATM i think Kurzick players are becoming more and more experienced, and glitched Luxon Warriors are being a problem too... still, I'd say Luxons even now have an advantage. And you can get 2-3x more faction playing Luxon side.

You know what Kurzicks are actually decent now? Because they learned how to run amber (well most of them), learned they need to bring some defense, learned this and that. Luxons? Naaaah, they cant even bring a single anti-enchant skill, which is the most important thing. They didnt learn that killing players is not important. Killing NPCs is. And hey.. there are other things besides enchant removal which hurt bonders and others. But since i mostly play Kurzick side, i have no wish to type them here. Let's just say you easily figger out all of it when you play both sides

.

The problem is 'some' players learn, most dont. I do agree that 70% of the players on the Luxon side that play FA are completely clueless. I often confuse them for mentally retarded amputated laamas, the way they play sometimes (ive considered joining the opposite side ).

Ive played both sides and ive come to the conclusion that currently, FA is not balanced. It never really was. In all im sure something could be done to improve the FA arena, because it isnt perfect for everyone as it is.

Try not to look at us as a group. 'They can't even bring an enchant removal skill' isnt all of us, keep that in mind. Im tired of pulling an entire party to Gunther and then being countered by two players.

Oh well, maybe its just time for a change of scenery.

t w e l v e - c h a r a c t e r s

Servant of Kali · Jun 26, 2007, 09:52 AM // 09:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pwny Ride

When im the only one of the team that even bothers with enchantment removal, that takes the effort to set a build that counters bonding/enchants/monks in general, i deserve to loose?

Read what i said.

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Dont put words into my mouth.

Strangely enough, that's exactly what you did with the above quote.

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Explain to me how Zeleous Benediction isn't completely broken, since it heals more than some elites that are in the healing attribute.

Zealous Benediction isn't broken in FA, due to the nature of the game (ie tons of firepower). Actually, I dont remember seeing any Kurzick monks running Zealous Benediction, but true, not that i monitor all of them. Still, i do catch Shield, I do catch Life Barrier, but no recall of Benediction.

The most popular monk elite on Kurzick monks is - Shield of Regeneration. That's what i personally use as well. It's far better than Benediction.

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Ive played both sides and ive come to the conclusion that currently, FA is not balanced. It never really was.

No, it never really was. You can ask anyone who played FA last year that being Kurzick equalled masochist.
The problem with your conclusions is that you think Kurzicks are overpowered. I guess that's a compliment to us who prefer playing Kurzick side, ty

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I do agree that 70% of the players on the Luxon side that play FA are completely clueless

That was even worse before when half of Kurzicks didnt know what amber run is

Now it's better they got the hang of it.

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'They can't even bring an enchant removal skill' isnt all of us

I know it's not all, but quite a lot dont, that's what i meant.

ryanryanryan0310 · Jun 26, 2007, 10:18 AM // 10:18

Kurzick side is more fun and challenging to play. It makes me feel good to have them at the final door and crush there efforts.

Luxon side is just random killing and following the turtles.

Traveller · Jun 26, 2007, 01:41 PM // 13:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pwny Ride

I think enchantment removal is well worth it. I use Shatterstorm to counter it regularly, but if only one person is bothering to play in such a way, it's really a letdown, expecially when you reach Gunther, and youre the only one even trying to get rid of the healers.

This is one of my pet peeves on Luxon side. People just spam "I'm attacking Gunther!" and I'm trying to say on team chat - put pressure on their healers, or Gunther will never die! But no. They just hack on Gunther while monks and ritualists standing next to him keep him healed. Usually I'm the only one giving the healers pressure, sometimes it's enough to win, sometimes not.

Servant of Kali · Jun 26, 2007, 09:09 PM // 21:09

Actually you're both wrong. The solution is never to attack only Gunther or only Healers. It's to do both, when needed. Remember that a healer respawns with full energy and can prot Gunther to hell. It really all depends on a situation.

Pwny Ride · Jun 27, 2007, 06:38 AM // 06:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Servant of Kali

The problem with your conclusions is that you think Kurzicks are overpowered. I guess that's a compliment to us who prefer playing Kurzick side, ty

Makes no sense, because kurzick's arent overpowered, and that wasnt my conclusion whatsoever. My conclusion was that FA mechanics are imbalanced, that and the intelligence of a certain number of players (or lack thereof), is less than decent (i mean, go into a town and count the spelling errors that arent corrected. I gaurentee your head will explode

)

Im in no way saying that Kurzicks are smarter than Luxons. I am saying that Kurzicks have figured out a flawless plan to stop Luxons for entering, and it is only flawless because, ill say it again, most Luxons are oblivious to the idea of Enchantment removal.

I think or at least i hope what Traveller meant, like i do, that it doesnt require an entire team focusing on monks to kill them, but it takes more than one person, and it's usually just that. We never said it took a whole team attacking just one thing, but if three out of the eight (unless there are afk'ers) where to focus fire on a monk or two, things would actually get done.

Hyper Cutter · Jun 27, 2007, 08:54 PM // 20:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Traveller

This is one of my pet peeves on Luxon side. People just spam "I'm attacking Gunther!" and I'm trying to say on team chat - put pressure on their healers, or Gunther will never die! But no. They just hack on Gunther while monks and ritualists standing next to him keep him healed. Usually I'm the only one giving the healers pressure, sometimes it's enough to win, sometimes not.

I'm reminded of the Aspenwood match I played where the Kurzick team had 4 monks on it. I just kept killing and killing them but every time I did another would take their place. Was a damn narrow victory for us, I'll say that much...

Alka · Jul 03, 2007, 11:20 AM // 11:20

since aspenwood is imbalanced for luxon advantage i LOVE to play insider build on luxon side(pity ppl cant see my title during matches i have 4th lev. kurz)
build i play:
Mo/E
1.heal area
2.karei healing circle
3.heal ring
1,2, are self heals
1,2,3 are for healing kurzick YES enemy npc`s
4.iron mist-i use it when kurzick npc tend to go out of kurzik bonder range
5.storm djin haste- i run if some kurzick player atack me
6.&7. sac glyph/undyeling aura{E}- when luxon die i sac glyp rez him then cancel undyeling-good to make luxon player feel bad
8. vengance-rarely use it but not good skill for 8th slot insider build
This build is SO FUN to play, when ppl ask me why i do it i answer its fun! and its really fun to be spy...

kiddster · Jul 03, 2007, 04:08 PM // 16:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alka

since aspenwood is imbalanced for luxon advantage i LOVE to play insider build on luxon side(pity ppl cant see my title during matches i have 4th lev. kurz)
build i play:
Mo/E
1.heal area
2.karei healing circle
3.heal ring
1,2, are self heals
1,2,3 are for healing kurzick YES enemy npc`s
4.iron mist-i use it when kurzick npc tend to go out of kurzik bonder range
5.storm djin haste- i run if some kurzick player atack me
6.&7. sac glyph/undyeling aura{E}- when luxon die i sac glyp rez him then cancel undyeling-good to make luxon player feel bad
8. vengance-rarely use it but not good skill for 8th slot insider build
This build is SO FUN to play, when ppl ask me why i do it i answer its fun! and its really fun to be spy...

Lol i love you

Riotgear · Jul 03, 2007, 09:35 PM // 21:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alka

since aspenwood is imbalanced for luxon advantage i LOVE to play insider build on luxon side(pity ppl cant see my title during matches i have 4th lev. kurz)
build i play:
Mo/E
1.heal area
2.karei healing circle
3.heal ring
1,2, are self heals
1,2,3 are for healing kurzick YES enemy npc`s
4.iron mist-i use it when kurzick npc tend to go out of kurzik bonder range
5.storm djin haste- i run if some kurzick player atack me
6.&7. sac glyph/undyeling aura{E}- when luxon die i sac glyp rez him then cancel undyeling-good to make luxon player feel bad
8. vengance-rarely use it but not good skill for 8th slot insider build
This build is SO FUN to play, when ppl ask me why i do it i answer its fun! and its really fun to be spy...

Glyph of Renewal + Iron Mist = ftw?

poobert · Jul 04, 2007, 10:44 AM // 10:44

imo FA favours the kurzics if they have a monk or two and a splinter barrager to take care of the warriors. It favours the Luxons if they have a couple of nukers and it favours any team with more than one MM or a full team no matter how remotely uselss it is.

Kurzic monks just stand between gunther and the safety of the res shirne. Luxons have a melee fetish and so can never take them out. Also no one knows what hexes are so a antimelee nec/mes on the kurzics makes victory as easy as stealing babies from the sweet and sticky grip of candy.

If the Luxons decide to give casters a try, they can nuke every npc because they are too stupid to move. Coupled with the turtles ultra nukation device they cant loose. (ditto for the Kurzics who only need one ele and a monk to go around raping every luxon shrine).

On a side note Guild Wars has 3 game types. PvP PvE and UWoT (Useless waste of time). When plauged with leachers (ie always) guess what FA comes under?

Traveller · Jul 04, 2007, 11:35 AM // 11:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alka

since aspenwood is imbalanced for luxon advantage i LOVE to play insider build on luxon side(pity ppl cant see my title during matches i have 4th lev. kurz)
build i play:
Mo/E
1.heal area
2.karei healing circle
3.heal ring
1,2, are self heals
1,2,3 are for healing kurzick YES enemy npc`s
4.iron mist-i use it when kurzick npc tend to go out of kurzik bonder range
5.storm djin haste- i run if some kurzick player atack me
6.&7. sac glyph/undyeling aura{E}- when luxon die i sac glyp rez him then cancel undyeling-good to make luxon player feel bad
8. vengance-rarely use it but not good skill for 8th slot insider build
This build is SO FUN to play, when ppl ask me why i do it i answer its fun! and its really fun to be spy...

I'm gonna be rich when I invent a device which allows to punch people in the face over the internet.

Shuuda · Jul 05, 2007, 11:01 AM // 11:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alka

since aspenwood is imbalanced for luxon advantage i LOVE to play insider build on luxon side(pity ppl cant see my title during matches i have 4th lev. kurz)
build i play:
Mo/E
1.heal area
2.karei healing circle
3.heal ring
1,2, are self heals
1,2,3 are for healing kurzick YES enemy npc`s
4.iron mist-i use it when kurzick npc tend to go out of kurzik bonder range
5.storm djin haste- i run if some kurzick player atack me
6.&7. sac glyph/undyeling aura{E}- when luxon die i sac glyp rez him then cancel undyeling-good to make luxon player feel bad
8. vengance-rarely use it but not good skill for 8th slot insider build
This build is SO FUN to play, when ppl ask me why i do it i answer its fun! and its really fun to be spy...

1)Considering all the bugs the Kurzicks can use to win, I'd say it's atleast even, if not Kurzick advantage.

2)If you actually do this in FA, or any PvP (Help the Foe on the other side) You are a sad griefer who should learn to play fair. Honestly, it's pathetic.

3)If I see you, I'll be sure to use my shocking daggers.