Curse

Baba_Beast · Jul 13, 2007, 06:09 AM // 06:09

we are actually 700 with our guild but we loose 1/3 matches so we dont really climb. so I was thinking our build need some improvment (dont change all the characters, just propose some new skills etc.)we play in frozen isle.

http://gwshack.us/eafe

the first 3 characters are splitting. Sin and Ele spiking down NPC fast while the Rit is healing. if the other team come back too strong, the Ele and the sin cancel their recall previously casted on the rit to escape safely.

the 5 others go for the flag. warrior and Ele applying pressure and can spike really well if Knockdown in the 2 SH

. mark of rodgort with fire hammer for the warrior synergizes well. basic builds for monks and purge signet incase of hexes/degen teams. dark escape is for spikes because he cannot infuse himself.

and before proposing new skills, tell me if those idea are good:
swapping bull's strike for shock to avoid being blocked.
adding teinais heat on the SH ele to aplly more pressure (maybe to much high-energy skills with that idea.)

I hope you'll help me

BB

akurun · Jul 13, 2007, 07:40 AM // 07:40

You should replace liquid flame with fireball on both eles, because fireball owns, and it makes your mind blast able to do something and your SH less of a drawbot. Also, consider replacing glowing gaze and mark on your Mind Blast with Fire Attunement and Immolate. A little less burning, but more fireball and burning spam, and more damage, yay. Some big problems with your backline, your RC has no MTouch, your LoD has no RoF, your LoD has no prots at all, your RC only has one prot. Devastating Hammer isn't worth running. Use Earthshaker.Drop Fierce Blow for Rush if you don't want the bar to suck, even if you keep Deva. Try to fit a convert on the SH.

Baba_Beast · Jul 13, 2007, 04:16 PM // 16:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by akurun

You should replace liquid flame with fireball on both eles, because fireball owns, and it makes your mind blast able to do something and your SH less of a drawbot. Also, consider replacing glowing gaze and mark on your Mind Blast with Fire Attunement and Immolate. A little less burning, but more fireball and burning spam, and more damage, yay. Some big problems with your backline, your RC has no MTouch, your LoD has no RoF, your LoD has no prots at all, your RC only has one prot. Devastating Hammer isn't worth running. Use Earthshaker.Drop Fierce Blow for Rush if you don't want the bar to suck, even if you keep Deva. Try to fit a convert on the SH.

RC has no Mtouch because the SH had draw conditions.

earth shaker>devast hammer? LOL, so you're telling me that I should put an elite that KD for 8 instead of 7 adrenaline and that doesnt inflict weakness? LOL again. GVG is not PVE, ennemies are not all ball up in a tight packet for your earth shaker to KD the 8 foes at the same time.

Shendaar · Jul 13, 2007, 05:10 PM // 17:10

Earth shaker is good dude. I'm not saying it is better than Dev hammer, but the AoE kd is much more useful than it looks.

Also I don't understand why you are running both Mighty and Fierce Blow on the hammer warrior. Dev->Crushing->Mighty is enough ... Replace Fierce for Rush.

akurun · Jul 13, 2007, 05:29 PM // 17:29

Weakness is a disadvantage of Devastating Hammer, and it will be until no one ever runs RC. Also, people who play GW are mostly bad at it, even in high-level GvG and do get close enough to KD multiple people with Earth shaker. Besides, Earth Shaker has a much better icon. Your RC needs MTouch, regardless of whether there's a midline draw. Purge on your infuser is really a bad idea. You need more prot. You need a lot more prot. Also, what's with saying people don't ball up to criticize Earth Shaker when your build has 7 AoEs?

BlackEagle · Jul 13, 2007, 05:34 PM // 17:34

On the monk bars:

No rof on the lod is bad.
No prot on the lod is bad.
Only one prot on the rc is bad.
No spirit bond at all is bad.
Needing dark escape because the infuser can't infuse himself is very bad.

So, rework the monk bars.

Something like:

lod/ps/rof/infuse/sig rejuv/dismiss or dwaynas or purge(Though not very good, but if you really want purge.) /veil/return

and

rc/bond/rof/soa or MT(regardless of whether you have a draw, MT is never a bad skill, ie. draw gets diverted easily)/gift/aegis/veil/glyph.

Would be better.

Also, if you chose to keep sig devo on the rc, deny instead of veil. The lod doesn't need dark escape, because now your monks have the ability to prot.

Only one res sig is not a good idea.

And Earthshaker is better than dev hammer. Also, you need rush on the hammer warrior. There's no point in running a major on that hammer warrior.

Tegato · Jul 13, 2007, 06:13 PM // 18:13

Earth Shaker is more like a "GET OFF MAH MONK!" skill, ;P. You can use it to line back when the opposing team has heavy melee pressure, and they're training on one of your midline/backline.

IMO, aegis on one monk isn't good, even though it's on your flag runner too. It's not really reliable as you only have aegis up for a little amount of time. If you're gonna use aegis chain, use it on both monks, rather than monk and flag runner, because flag runner's not always gonna be in range when you need the aegis. Plus, if the other team realizes that only your RC has aegis, it's very susceptible for interrupts.

If you decide not to run aegis, you can replace it with Divine spirit, and holy veil >>> Deny Hexes.

Your RC would basically be:
RC, GoH, RoF, Spirit Bond, Mending touch, Divine Spirit, Deny Hexes, Glyph of lesser energy

Your Infuser:
Infuse, LoD, RoF, Prot Spirit, (condition remover), holy veil, and either balanced stance/disciplined stance, or signet of devotion and glyph of lesser energy

|Readem| · Jul 13, 2007, 07:46 PM // 19:46

Plox organize your team. Kill Dev Hammer, it sucks. Go BB or Earthshaker. Use Rush, it iz gud for a reason. Bad sin gank chain. Go ED<SP<BLS<HotO<BSS<BoS<Impale. Glowing gaze is overkill on Mindblaster. Use Fireball for Liquid. Replace TH for Meteor. Kill Gale. WTF are you using Dash...go FDH. SH ele, is worthless in GvG. People kite... and are good. Go BS with Draw/Convert/wards. Why SoD...and no DH. That makes very little sense O.o...Monk Bars need serious work. WTB Mending Touch on RC. Where is RoF on the LoD...it is Imba for a reason

. If your monks are any good, they won't need DE. Not sure wth the Rt is supposed to be doing O.o...replace for an MoR Mes. Imo DPS is better then FomF. O, also your team has about...2 resses and a D-shotted ele :/.

Ec]-[oMaN · Jul 13, 2007, 09:41 PM // 21:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tegato

Earth Shaker is more like a "GET OFF MAH MONK!" skill, ;P. You can use it to line back when the opposing team has heavy melee pressure, and they're training on one of your midline/backline.

IMO, aegis on one monk isn't good, even though it's on your flag runner too. It's not really reliable as you only have aegis up for a little amount of time. If you're gonna use aegis chain, use it on both monks, rather than monk and flag runner, because flag runner's not always gonna be in range when you need the aegis. Plus, if the other team realizes that only your RC has aegis, it's very susceptible for interrupts.

If you decide not to run aegis, you can replace it with Divine spirit, and holy veil >>> Deny Hexes.

Your RC would basically be:
RC, GoH, RoF, Spirit Bond, Mending touch, Divine Spirit, Deny Hexes, Glyph of lesser energy

Your Infuser:
Infuse, LoD, RoF, Prot Spirit, (condition remover), holy veil, and either balanced stance/disciplined stance, or signet of devotion and glyph of lesser energy

Actually aegis is fine on the rc+runner, many guilds run it and it works. I've hated aegis on lod monks. Like it would matter if the other team realizes that only the rc has an aegis, good teams will still drop 2 monks using aegis anyways if they can interrupt worth a piss.
A better argument for the aegis debate within this build is that you are sacrificing 4 slots for aegis when more often than not 3 out of the 8 won't benefit from the aegis, not to mention I rarely see guilds running a split get their stand team wiped, other teams usually have to send people back to deal with the split.

careofapathy · Jul 15, 2007, 06:36 AM // 06:36

Since the runner is defensive, your flag team stand basically won't be doing any killing against most teams. It's basically a hammer and a fire ele against the enemy two monks, which is basically no kills. With the fire ele being the only offensive caster at the stand, it's doubtful he'll ever get any of his 2s casts off against a team with a Mesmer with any interrupt. This reduces his effectiveness by a great deal. A single warrior means any and all warrior hate ie Blinding Surge will be spammed on him nonstop. Either way, it is extremely doubtful the two at the stand can kill, so you shouldn't factor that into your plans unless the team has one of the monks leave the stand to deal with the much more powerful split you are running.

The split is pretty classic NF, broken A/W, Remedy, and 3rd option. It looks like it has enough kick to take care of basically any 8v8 build without a dedicated split. You should be practicing how fast your split can take care of NPCs because if the other team chooses to roll your stand team and wipe our base, you're in trouble. If the other team has enchant removal like Corrupt, you're in for a beating since your prots will be stripped and your monks will take a beating and wipe since there will be no support for them.

- Why does your Rt/Mo have Mend Condition when he has Weapon of Remedy? Being able to remove conditions off the target when they have Weapon of Warding isn't extremely necessary in most situations since you can just spam Weapon of Remedy which does life steal.

- One Res Sig could be a problem, even though you do have 2 hard resses (they are split up).

- There have been posts concerning the monk builds already.

- There have suggestions to your hammer build already.

Baba_Beast · Jul 16, 2007, 05:21 AM // 05:21

what you guys have against dev hammer? observe some GVG sometimes and you'll see that the ratio of hammer warrior is roughly: 3dev/1 earth
when you see a warrior using a hammer, he uses BB or dev. I've never seen an earth shaker while observing.

anyway problem solve cause I change the warrior to conjure/crip slash to apply alot more pressure. what do you think of that change?

I wont change the purge cause we did a GVG tonight and they had 3 mesmers. even with the 3 holy veils + the purge, we always had an hexes on us. we had all 45%DP when VOD came and then we succeed to spike down the monks so we win at 26:00 minutes because the guild lord was alone in the center

I've tweak the monks bar a bit.

BlackEagle · Jul 16, 2007, 03:17 PM // 15:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baba_Beast

what you guys have against dev hammer? observe some GVG sometimes and you'll see that the ratio of hammer warrior is roughly: 3dev/1 earth
when you see a warrior using a hammer, he uses BB or dev. I've never seen an earth shaker while observing.

Dev hammer isn't necessarily a bad skill, but earthshaker is just far more useful. There are so many situations where Earthshaker is useful. Because, especially on maps like weeping stone (which is in the AT rotation) you're likely to catch more than one in the knockdown on odd occasions. It's just so much more versitile, ie. KD body blocks, lineback etc. You're basically trading off 1 extra adrenaline cost again substancially better versatility.

And about not seeing Earthshaker on obs, you can't have bosed many matches recently where there is a hammer warrior.

Having a crip slash is completely pointless really, there is no way any 2 monk backline is going to have any problems. With everyone running RC, you're basically just giving them a free 132/198 heal without any other real damage to do anything. The AoE is just pointless without knockdowns.

Basically, to have any chance of killing anything you're gonna need your water ele at the stand as much as possible, for snares in aoe. But that alone is never going to kill any one.

I'd suggest you put the hammer warrior, as earthshaker, back in and then you can basically wokr on the premise of knocking down in aoe. Also, stop putting majors/superiors on warriors. On that bar, you are basically trading 2 extra seconds of bleeding/crippling/deep wound (which will be removed anyway) for 75 health. That warrior will go boom at vod if the other team has been even half capable at responding to the split, especially without any small prots on your monks, SoA etc.

The monk bars are better, not having any condition removal on the lod could be a problem, even with draw, but seeing as you're running dedicated split you aren't going to have to worry about splitting monks so that'll be fine.