Curse

Wakka · Jul 11, 2007, 11:26 AM // 11:26

My god quite crying.

Chilblains, Signet of Disenchantment, etc.

Basically your all crying because they brought a skill you build cant counter. If you worry so much bring one that can kill it and shut up about it being Lame.

urania · Jul 11, 2007, 11:53 AM // 11:53

Some mesmer interrupts work on shouts too now...its still better than nothing! =p

As for chilbis...lol.

at wakka, its not so much about being able to counter it, as is about being able to deal with it properly since it renders nearly all skills (especially the majority of standard interrupts and ench removal skills) useless - a standard balanced build would have quite some difficulty in bringing such a team down. Especially since they can simply run away once form is on the verdge of ending and there's no way you can snare them. :P
A SoMW spike, as i already mentioned, would be the perfect counter for them. One could wonder what's lamer though..xD And making counter builds will simply render u more vulnerable to a greater number of other builds, unlike when you run a balanced build that can deal properly (if sufficient skill level is present) with virtually anything.

milkflopance · Jul 11, 2007, 12:23 PM // 12:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by urania

Some mesmer interrupts work on shouts too now...its still better than nothing! =p

As for chilbis...lol.

Shouts are instant, you mean chants

urania · Jul 11, 2007, 12:30 PM // 12:30

ops! :P
not much for shutting down the former then apart from the well or few nec hexes, yeah.

God Apprentice · Jul 11, 2007, 12:35 PM // 12:35

Work sucks, I'd like to have been on the runs with you Crazy to see these invinci sins

glountz · Jul 11, 2007, 12:42 PM // 12:42

I wonder how much time it would take to see this in play in "higher" PvP play.
Actually Shadow form sins can deal damage.
We used with my guild (and it was also posted here in guru) 4 shadow form sins in TA, with success, with deadly arts for damage and to make a toxic shock signet spike (with only sup runes, as you oscillate between the 58Hp state and invincible state)
People bringin targetting disenchant as a counter fail at GW.
People speaking about interrupts as a counter fail at GW.
For three reasons: 1) a shadow form sin always cast shadow form outside interrupt range 2) Interrupts are targetting, so sins cannot be interrupted under shadow form, which is an issue when they use arcane mimicry to be under perma-shafowform. 3) Shadow form sins use shadow form under Deadly paradox, so Shadow form is cast in 0.5 sec. Try to interrupt this, ha!

Shadow form is not overpowered. What is overpowered is Deadly paradox.

Anyway this build is fragile. The 50HP drawbacks kills it.

Nurse With Wound · Jul 11, 2007, 01:13 PM // 13:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by God Apprentice

Work sucks, I'd like to have been on the runs with you Crazy to see these invinci sins

lmao, same here

masta_yoda · Jul 11, 2007, 02:39 PM // 14:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wakka

My god quite crying.

Chilblains, Signet of Disenchantment, etc.

Basically your all crying because they brought a skill you build cant counter. If you worry so much bring one that can kill it and shut up about it being Lame.

stop naming skills people dont bring to ha, not much of a help. Also who ever said mystic wrath spike or what ever. why change a build only to win uw?? These sins only play uw may aswell resign and go again.

Tordek · Jul 11, 2007, 02:48 PM // 14:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bowstring Badass

I use rending touch in RA when I'm bored on my war.

This is Hero's Ascent not RA. Yes it is used in HA, but not to the extent that dealing with a invinci sin would be worth posting about.

Patccmoi · Jul 11, 2007, 03:03 PM // 15:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by glountz

People speaking about interrupts as a counter fail at GW.
For three reasons: 1) a shadow form sin always cast shadow form outside interrupt range 2) Interrupts are targetting, so sins cannot be interrupted under shadow form, which is an issue when they use arcane mimicry to be under perma-shafowform. 3) Shadow form sins use shadow form under Deadly paradox, so Shadow form is cast in 0.5 sec. Try to interrupt this, ha!

Actually Leech Sig is popular on many Mesmer bars and interrupts through it. Sure, it might not be easy to time, but when you have a chance every 20s, it shouldn't take you 30 minutes to win.

Kyp Jade · Jul 11, 2007, 03:49 PM // 15:49

Since 9/10 Balanced Builds take some form of mesmer......

You know what, Ill think of you whiners when these "invinci-sin" teams give me free fame on burial mounds.

(If your mesmer cant count to 20-25 and use blackout, slap him (or her), and find a new mesmer)

-----
And no snares? Most balanced teams take a water ele, with frozen burst, which doesnt target, and does lotsa dmg.

urania · Jul 11, 2007, 03:59 PM // 15:59

Unnatural sig on them once they go down to 50ish hp should be nice too. If they're within your range, that is :P

YDP · Jul 11, 2007, 04:48 PM // 16:48

Well the only thing that would really work is alot of mesmer skills like unnatural sig, leech sig, sig of humility, blackout. As for the other suggestions like stop crying and just use chilliblans or frozen burst. First off who brings chilliblans anymore? Second off how are you gonna get them to stand still for it? Non direct aoe dmg noone brings enough of to kill someone and again you cant get them to stand still for it, unless you ask them nicely to stand still for frozen burst. Another option could be ranger traps, but if they have half a brain they will see you setting them up. So to me it appears as if a mesmer is the only realistic way to counter this. But leech signet, blackout & sig of humility arent used in all builds. So that means we have to put a mesmer primary in every build just to counter this, no more e/me pd's ect. but shock would be good if you can catch his 0.5second shadowform cast, a majority of melee units use shock but not all.

Here is a response I got back from a gm admin, I wrote the report late so I didnt give much detail.

Report=This guy is abusing a build that really wasnt ment to be playd in halls or any pvp for that matter, it took us 45mins to beat him & he had no attack skills and no damage. Just wanted us to get fed up and leave, that is how he gets his fame. A SO KO is their name.

Response=Hello,

Thank you for contacting Guild Wars Support.

Please understand that this is a valid gameplay tactic. We will never ask a player to give up and be defeated in a PvP battle. It is not considered a violation to stay alive using the skills which are equipped in your skillbar. We suggest that you equip some type of snare or slowing skill in order to defeat players who use these skills. If you have any more questions, please let us know and we will be more than happy to assist you!

The admin obviously just thought he was running around and probably doesnt realize the exploit. But if he knows excatly what im talking about then hes never playd pvp. And if this is a vaild tatic, running around with invinci sins with no damage and only a few ways to counter this, which I would say at least 50%(blackout is kinda popular thou) of people arent using those skills. Then I think they need new GM's someone who understands which builds need to be nerfed. It really ruins the quality of gameplay when you have people just messing around like this, while people are trying to play seriously.

What surprised me is that this trashy player (A SO KO) has a silver cape on.

Kyp Jade · Jul 11, 2007, 05:00 PM // 17:00

Is this an HA thread or an RA thread? You have 8 people on your team you can equip bars for ahead of time. Not one like in RA. 5-6 of those players are offense and support, which have space for utility skills like counters. GENERIC COUNTERS LIKE BLACKOUT/LEECH SIG work against ANY build, and shouldnt be hard to fit in.

GENEREIC SHUTDOWN SKILLS LIKE blackout/frozenburst (i love getting trains of thumpers and watching them run in circles) work everywhere.

you know what, take a mesmer, put blackout on his bar, this skill has been king of shutdown since prophecies days.

And this assassin guy was probably laughing at you the whole time thinking your not very smart, im still alive, and its been 45 minutes. Is probably playing with one hand, eating a bag of chips and watching TV. Were you playing heroway trash or rt spike? You probably had NOTHING on him then.

YDP · Jul 11, 2007, 05:20 PM // 17:20

Kyp Jade you talk like A SO KO is you. Alot of mesmers dont bring black out, sig of humility & leech sig. If we are bound by those skills just to defeat one build is pretty lame. Yes those mesmer skills work well allaround but who wants to run that 24/7. And again how do you plan on getting him to stand still for you to frozen burst him?
You cant body block him because of return. Umm if we were playing heroway tranq & traps woulda taken care of him, and no alot of people were afk, I went to the store for 25mins. So sure as Kyp Jade stated its simple just everyone run a mesmer in their group with those skills and you wont have a problem. So say goodbye to ranger spike, rit spike, blood spike, paraspike differnt types of balance, smite builds ahh just about every other build other then balance w/mesmer and those specific skills.

Kyp Jade · Jul 11, 2007, 05:23 PM // 17:23

IF your water ele needs him to stand still for frozen burst you have more problems than I thought you did

Despozblehero · Jul 11, 2007, 05:24 PM // 17:24

BUT BUT BUT... YOU CANT BRING A MESMER IN RIT SPIKE OR ZERGWAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OH NOES WE IS PWNED ;p

3...2...1..."Fear Me!"

Theres much bigger problems than shadowform.

Diddy bow · Jul 11, 2007, 05:56 PM // 17:56

[skill]Expunge Enchantments[/skill]

every build should have one

I like gimmicks like this forces people to make somthing more balenced or at least take some proper counters ¬¬

Snow Bunny · Jul 11, 2007, 06:37 PM // 18:37

You guys might say it's easy to counter....but really....it's not. Because we use it all the time in FFF, we jokingly ran an all SF sin team, 2 A/Me, the rest A/E for spike. we went flawless 7 matches straight, got to halls, got spanked. Rinse repeat. All these afore mentioned counters....nobody used them...and the few times we saw characters with the possible counters named..we spiked them. SF is formidable.

Crazy Kalibanov · Jul 11, 2007, 07:04 PM // 19:04

Regardless of whether you can counter this with a skill that you may or may not have in your team build, the thing I find objectionable is that their strategy is to waste other people's time to the point that they become frustrated and resign.

I don't mind losing to teams that out fight us. A So Ko's strategy is LAME and imo should not be allowed.