Curse

Despozblehero · Jul 10, 2007, 06:02 AM // 06:02

yeah but you still have the problem that its all luck... is my hero going to be stupid and miss this time? sometimes people lose connection, sometimes they have to go afk, sometimes they are having the game of their life and dont miss anything... no real way to throw the "human" element in there. Never understood how the whole Hero Battles idea made it past the idea stage for PvP seeing as how obvious AI issues would be, as well as it just being gimmicky and pretty anti GW (yay lets make a HB guild ;p). Hell id rather reward TA than HB for the tournaments. You might have 4 real people who have to somewhat work together and show a little skill. But im all about rewarding actual skill, discouraging mindlessness. Oh well this isnt a thread about hero battles. To keep with the OP ill say another thing that makes it seem like "gw is falling apart" is the economy. Boy does it suck. It has for a very long time.

unmatchedfury · Jul 11, 2007, 12:18 AM // 00:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sword

If anet thinks that GW2 is going to do even remotely well they are mistaken. The lack of attentivness to the community turns players completely off the game, builds are broken and people have less fun - and anet expects that the sequel to this game will sell copies...doubtfully.

actually i belvie gw2 will sell quite well. it'll sell to the main group of people that buy it. This being kiddies of younger age who have a fresh 50$ bill and can't afford p2p games. this is why pve is quite common and RA remains the most popular gametype. most of the playerrs of this game are actually quite young.

also gw2 will be more to the typical MMORPG formula of leveling and real time worlds were players interact. jumping and real physics will be added for the cool factor that actuaklly sells games to the nonhardcore. By that i mean most people will buy a game if it looks cool and they don't care about gameplay.

Think I'm wrong, EA has built one of the biggest gameing companies around that concept. C&C 3 is perfect axample of a game thats more fun to watch someone else play that play yoruself.

whats even worse is that Anet finally wised up and was like, yo, the monies in PVE isnt it. WELL DUH.

now that they know this, PvP will either become a side feature in GW2, or GW2 will have to almost be 2 sperate games. GW2 PvE edition and PvP edition of GW2.

I myself have already quit GW about 2-3 months ago. GvG is fun but theres no real support for it you do it for rank, and theres no rewards or long term goals while GvGing for the casual player. The same thing with almsot all other forsm of PvP. Also GW lacks a way for a player to define himself as as skilled individual. Rather the player is judged by his guild tag.

Btw HvH is not a 1 vs. 1 format in the pure, its rather a mess right now as far as player skill goes, and its iether play the meta better than others or don't play at all.

And finally the actual reason i quit GW is because
1. after UAX in PvP theres not a whole lot to do but play your own perosnal crazy builds in RA or revisit old favorites. the new PvP rewards system totally fails to fix the UAX problem.

2. the PvE style of gw never apealed to me. i dotn mind hecneis but 7 of them? thats a bit much. the game really should be scaled dificulty for however many players you bring into battle. so you can play with 1-8 players however many you chose. right now theres no reason for me to want to play ebcause i simply hate playing with hencies, its feals like a RTS with a bad interface and controls.

3. if anyone says solo faming thats antoher reason i quit.Anet nerfed that so theres really no reason to watch monsters die from hitting you and your box of dead person ashes, which wasn't fun anyway but is now even more boring.

And finally i i thin kalot of people no matter waht yoru view point have to realise a simple fact

Anet knwos PvP does not make as much money as PvE therefore anet will now focus on PvE.

its as simple as that. and its one of the reasons this games players now consist of less hardcore and younger peopel taht biuld GW at walmart while their mothers were shopping.

just my 2 cents.

Shmanka · Jul 12, 2007, 12:39 AM // 00:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by unmatchedfury

SNIP.

First off, GW2 will not sell. I am not buying it, I am disgusted with how they have handled this game.

Every other good core gamer will too, you mention its ability of its free duty of a monthly fee, do you not realize the competition coming out? GW had the chance to become a legendary game such as Starcraft, Warcraft, Half-Life etc. Yet it has failed, why? They don't listen.

Who wants a game where the staff decide they don't want to listen?

Your prime example was Soul Reaping, Auction House, HA mechanics, skill nerfs/not nerfed, useless skills in both environments(pve and pvp). There is too much to complain about, we can all agree that nothing is perfect, but when you log on and KNOW it could be better there is a problem.

B E A S T · Jul 12, 2007, 01:20 AM // 01:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shmanka

First off, GW2 will not sell.

Really, because you know every single thing ANet is going to add and change in GW2? Fascinating, care to let some of us in on it?

Quote:

Every other good core gamer will too

Once again, the future is predicted. I and plenty of other Guild Wars players will buy GW2. Still you make the presumption that ANet will not learn from some of their mistakes. Hell, GW:EN hasn't even hit the shelf, and we are already judging GW2 by the standards of games that are also in progress, such as Starcraft 2.

Quote:

GW had the chance to become a legendary game such as Starcraft, Warcraft, Half-Life etc.

Last time I checked, those games were released, oh, 5 - 7 years before Guild Wars. So of course Guild Wars can't be one of these 'legendary" games.

BTW, log onto Warcraft 3 or Starcraft. Their loyal playerbase is all but gone.

Quote:

Yet it has failed

No, it has not. Guild Wars is a great game that still has lots of active members and is one of the top 5 best MMO's of all time. ANet continues to listen to our wishes, such as this years Dragon Festival.

Quote:

Who wants a game where the staff decide they don't want to listen?

LOL, this comment is so dumb it's not worth replying too.

Quote:

Your prime example was Soul Reaping, Auction House, HA mechanics, skill nerfs/not nerfed, useless skills in both environments(pve and pvp). There is too much to complain about

Soul Reaping is fine... you still see tons of MM's running around. Everyone moaned and bitched that they cant make an extra minion every minute, but so what? It balanced MM's dominance in PvE. To add an auction house would be to steal from WoW, so instead ANet did a great job by fixing the majority of chat spamming and trade problems. I agree, HA is somewhat of a mess at the moment, but ANet has fixed things like this in the past, they could very well be working on an update right now. Of course there are going to be some bad skills and skill nerfs, but overall GW has a very balanced skill set compared to other games, such as Lineage and WoW.

Quote:

we can all agree that nothing is perfect, but when you log on and KNOW it could be better there is a problem.

Sure, I can think of about a hundred things that could be improved in Guild Wars.

But when people dwell on the bad things in GW and in life, they tend to forget about all the good things that made and still makes the game fun and replayable.

Despozblehero · Jul 12, 2007, 01:27 AM // 01:27

When I 1st started this game (back with the 2nd beta) I thought it had the potential to be as big as if not bigger than WoW or any MMORPG out there... now that idea is... laughable.
I wont even say that they didnt listen cause there are a few examples of when they did listen. But more often than not what they did change (or didnt) was harmful or downright stupid.
Who ever the person(s) who decided things for GW is turned what couldve been a piece of history into a sad joke.

Billiard · Jul 12, 2007, 11:30 AM // 11:30

I posted an article that pertains some to this months ago: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...d+posts cript

I want to point out this section in particular:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billiard

Guild Wars the Franchise

Something I have been thinking a lot about lately is Guild Wars the franchise. Now I see a lot of folks comparing the success of Guild Wars to that of WoW, and in turn finding Guild Wars lacking in the comparison. Honestly I think this comparison needs to be put in the proper perspective. The Warcraft franchise is so popular now due in large part to its long history. Warcraft was originally released in 1994, with Warcraft II coming out in 1995. Warcraft III was then not released until 2002. Late fall 2004 World of Warcraft was released in North America, and in early 2005 WoW began being released to the rest of the world. So when you consider that the Warcraft franchise has had 13 years to develop its product and player base, Guild Wars is doing pretty well as the first installment of that franchise and just now approaching its 2nd anniversary. And this brings me to another point: I don’t think ArenaNet ever considered Guild Wars to be a one and done product

When we met with the developers a couple of things were emphasized about how ArenaNet approached things. One was that they are all gamers who gain inspiration from what works and what might not work with other games. The second thing was that they seek constant improvement. At the time I figured that they were talking more about their dedication to constantly improving Guild Wars. But one of them also mentioned to me a couple of times that some of the really successful games out there were not huge successes until their 2nd or 3rd generations. Looking at the PC Gamer article, you can see several mentions of how ArenaNet went against the grain with their business model, and how the chapter system was experimental. These to me highlight something very important that I don’t think a lot of Guild Wars players appreciate: Guild Wars is just the beginning of the franchise, and Guild Wars 2 in all probability is not the end of the franchise. Think about how big Guild Wars is now and compare it to how big Warcraft or Diablo or other titles were when they were first developed. Guild Wars is huge by most comparisons, but especially when compared to the first generation of nearly every other game. ArenaNet went out on a limb with their new business model, and by all accounts it has been a huge success. Sure it is still dwarfed by WoW, but it was not designed nor marketed to be a WoW killer. And this brings me to my last point.

For the first iteration of the franchise, Guild Wars was exteremely well done and extremely successful, giving ANet a huge playerbase and strong foundation to build the 2nd and subsequent iterations. Could it have been done better? Probably. But the Devs themselves are very serious and, pretty much professional gamers. They have an idea where they want the game to go - not just based on what we know and see from the 3 campaigns so far, but for the future expansions and onto GW2 and GW3. GW2 has been worked on for probably several years already, yet even so they have continued to work on GW. Some players are unhappy with how things have been and complain and/or leave. That happens with any product or game. Still millions of players, many of them not in the US, continue to play and enjoy the game. And ANet continues to work on improving the franchise.

I am a marketer by profession - I have a PhD in Marketing and teach courses in New Product Development at a major US university, as well as internationally. By comparision to the majority of new businesses out there, ANet is doing a phenomenal job. Every new product out there is going to have issues that people complain about. This doesn't mean though that the product is failing and that people won't buy it in the future.

Guild Wars provides tremendous replay value for the money. Just consider how many hours you have in game for your $40-50-150 purchase. Many off the shelf games charge $40-50 and have an expected play life of 40-50 hours, yet most people I know who play GW are in the in 2000 hour range, if not more. That sort of value just about guarantees when GW2 comes out it will be a huge hit, whether or not several hundred of us from GuildWarGuru choose to buy it. With the head start GW2 will have because of GW, I would guess that GW2 will likely go mainstream and rival WoW before long.

So say what you want and think what you will about GW and the ANet devs, but they are indeed very good at what they do, and I would not bet against GW2 based on their track record so far. That is my professional opinion.

ayame ftw · Jul 12, 2007, 12:06 PM // 12:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Despozblehero

When I 1st started this game (back with the 2nd beta) I thought it had the potential to be as big as if not bigger than WoW or any MMORPG out there... now that idea is... laughable.
I wont even say that they didnt listen cause there are a few examples of when they did listen. But more often than not what they did change (or didnt) was harmful or downright stupid.
Who ever the person(s) who decided things for GW is turned what couldve been a piece of history into a sad joke.

I agree with u, guild was had allot of potential, but a lot of bad decisions where made.
And Im predicting that gw2 will be the same story all over again. It will have a good start: nice graphics, game play, skill system, etc. But then anet needs to make a new chapter because they want to make some more money (milk the cow till its dray). Its impossible to keep inventing new exiting things while maintaining the balance, u are bound to make mistakes if u are “forced” to add skills and professions to make sure people keep on buying the next expantion. And then the problems starts to snowball…
The new skills/class seem to powerfull
The old kills get underused
The new kills get nefed
The underused skills get buffed
Old classes get outclassed by the new ones
…
u are looking for trouble… but that’s the business model they chose …

DreamWind · Jul 12, 2007, 02:04 PM // 14:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billiard

Guild Wars provides tremendous replay value for the money. Just consider how many hours you have in game for your $40-50-150 purchase. Many off the shelf games charge $40-50 and have an expected play life of 40-50 hours, yet most people I know who play GW are in the in 2000 hour range, if not more. That sort of value just about guarantees when GW2 comes out it will be a huge hit, whether or not several hundred of us from GuildWarGuru choose to buy it. With the head start GW2 will have because of GW, I would guess that GW2 will likely go mainstream and rival WoW before long.

So say what you want and think what you will about GW and the ANet devs, but they are indeed very good at what they do, and I would not bet against GW2 based on their track record so far. That is my professional opinion.

Well thought out post but I disagree with you. The thing about Guild Wars that we need to understand is that it is essentially TWO different games in one. PvE and PvP are two different games with two different communities. You can't say "Guild Wars has a loyal playerbase" when there are two completely different playerbases in the game.

Now you are saying that Anet knows what they are doing and has a loyal playerbase that will buy Guild War 2. That may be true...if you are talking about PvE. When it comes to PvP, I think Anet is an epic failure.

It is a true statement that Guild Wars could have been a legendary game. Bad balancing procedures, multiple changes that alienated the PvP community, bad CR team that doesn't have a clue about how PvP works, and just an overall company that puts monster gameplay issues on the backseat in favor of minor changes that make a larger community giggle. Not that I blame them...I would probably want to make the larger community happy as well.

The problem is that they screwed over PvP and nobody has convinced me otherwise. Maybe they KNOW what they are doing, but they sure as hell haven't shown it or told us about it. Every change they make takes AGES, and even many of those changes turned out bad. So while we can say that they learned from this experience and will put it to use in Guild Wars 2, there is NO indication that they will focus on PvP or change their secretive ways for Guild Wars 2. ALL indication is that they will simply cater even MORE to the PvE community since they now know where the most money is (thus alienating the PvP community again).

I am not convinced any real PvP player should go anywhere near Guild Wars 2 at this point in time. There has to be some EXTREME evidence that the game is going to be any good for me to go anywhere near it.

Kyp Jade · Jul 12, 2007, 04:33 PM // 16:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

Well thought out post but I disagree with you. The thing about Guild Wars that we need to understand is that it is essentially TWO different games in one. PvE and PvP are two different games with two different communities. You can't say "Guild Wars has a loyal playerbase" when there are two completely different playerbases in the game.

I'll agree that there are seperate communities in GW, but GW PvE and GW PvP are one and the same. IT's GW. it was marketed as a competitive online rpg. And thats what GW is, the elements for PvP exist inside a PvE game.

As a player that plays both PvP (HA mainly) and PvE, i was upset when the PvE only skills came into existance. Putting a wedge between the two communities is not the way the game needs to be marketed. I liked proph days when all the pve eventually led you into pvp. (remember the crystal desert?) I'll agree that theres two different gameplay styles in pvp and pve, but its not two different games.

And as for the game falling apart, Yes and No, the PvP community has been dying due to lack of support. We have this ridiculous Hero Battle PvE thing, and allowing Hero/Hench into competitive PvP is just retarded. Ill allow that HvH is an attempt to gently tug PvE players into PvP, but it failed horribly imo. The PvE community is just stale, but its always been like that, so ignore it.

As for GW2, I'll end up buying it if I am still into online play. GW, while i think the devs are retarded at times, has been a great game. PvP, while crap, is also fun, I dont play to farm fames (though fame is nice) I thouroughly enjoy playing against well known teams, and people I know. I'll agree that the gimmicky shit ruins it for a lot of people, but those guys are playing to farm.
However if GW2 pvp doesnt have an HA/GvG element in it, I will quickly find myself a different game to play. AB/RA/TA/HvH are not what I consider fun.

DreamWind · Jul 12, 2007, 07:14 PM // 19:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyp Jade

I'll agree that there are seperate communities in GW, but GW PvE and GW PvP are one and the same. IT's GW. it was marketed as a competitive online rpg. And thats what GW is, the elements for PvP exist inside a PvE game.

Putting a wedge between the two communities is not the way the game needs to be marketed. I liked proph days when all the pve eventually led you into pvp. (remember the crystal desert?) I'll agree that theres two different gameplay styles in pvp and pve, but its not two different games.

You have a point in Prophecies. Originally it was designed for PvE to lead into PvP. Of course, I still have devs saying that the game was built from the ground up to be PvP, but thats besides the point.

Nevertheless, I think Anet really strayed from the entire plan of the game once they realized what happened. Originally it was marketed as a competitive RPG, but I don't know anyone IRL that knows Guild Wars even has PvP. Anet realized that the idea of no monthly fee PvE sold much better than PvP. This in turn led to PvP problems not being fixed, too much time between updates, and just general lack of support and understanding towards PvP players.

So the communities split, partially because of the nature of the communities, but mostly because Anet created it. It used to be more blended, but now I consider it two seperate games altogether. Frankly, I would like to see them release Guild Wars 2 as two seperate games with two seperate branches of Anet, because I can say with full confidence that mixing PvE and PvP will again cause the same problems if Anet is running it.

Of course, as you said, this isn't the best way to market the game so it won't happen. But the game will be worse because of it (especially PvP due to the huge PvE market)...I can 90% guarantee it.

Phades · Jul 13, 2007, 01:08 AM // 01:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billiard

Guild Wars provides tremendous replay value for the money. Just consider how many hours you have in game for your $40-50-150 purchase. Many off the shelf games charge $40-50 and have an expected play life of 40-50 hours, yet most people I know who play GW are in the in 2000 hour range, if not more. That sort of value just about guarantees when GW2 comes out it will be a huge hit, whether or not several hundred of us from GuildWarGuru choose to buy it.

The majority of games off the shelf are also stand alone offline games, opposed to online games that are also "works in progress". Trying to draw a parrallel in value in this instance is rather irrellevant. However if you were to attempt a different parrallel between, for instance, Counterstrike versus Guildwars your parity of value falls apart.

Personally I am interested more in quality than in cost and interpretation of the direction that the game is going to take. While I do not have a problem with the pay to play scheme, there are simply companies out there that I will not ever return to due to the displayed decision making process in handling their games. I could list them all (the list is not that long), while describing when and why for each one, but that really drifts away from what is being discussed here.

Currently I am on the fence with Guildwars and my deciding factors will be how this game is continued to be handled, what my other options are, and my own allotment of free time to divide among my choices. If GW2 does not rank high enough by the time it is released given those factors, I simply won't buy it even though I do tend to juggle more than one game at a time in addition to other activities or obligations.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billiard

So say what you want and think what you will about GW and the ANet devs, but they are indeed very good at what they do, and I would not bet against GW2 based on their track record so far. That is my professional opinion.

I doubt anyone here will argue that GW2 will not sell any copies or sell copies to individuals that may or may not have played the original GW game regardless of how the next installment is marketed. What people will comment about is how they, as individuals, will choose based upon what transpires now and in the future regarding GW and GW2.

Ganks · Jul 14, 2007, 11:20 PM // 23:20

I like the post comparing GW to Magic the Gathering. I agree with that. They should have seperated it somehow instead of overlapping the skills.

But ANet had numerous chances to fix their problems. Everyone complained about so many different things, and im not going to name anything because its a waste of time, and they didnt fix it at first. They let it settled and people complained and whined and "ragequit" right up until the point they decided to fix it by restoring 8 man teams to HoH or whatever "fix" they manage to patch and it just keeps going in an endless loop like that.

I reinstall this game from time to time because I am bored with other games but lets get one thing straight: This game was dead the first time they let rangers "spirit spam" for as long as they did, before finally "nerfing" them only to make way for something else.

They dug their own grave and no endless amounts of expansions or patches or even a new release is going to teach you common sense.

Its not rocket science. Its not like they arent listening. They say often publicly and through support emails that they check forums like these time and again. Its strictly a case of lack of common sense. ANet truly is a little baby sucking on a baba.

I will not purchase GWEN.

I will not purchase GW2.

ANet lost a customer ... -looks at his join date- a little over a year 1/2 ago

Blame the Monks · Jul 15, 2007, 01:09 PM // 13:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

It is a true statement that Guild Wars could have been a legendary game. Bad balancing procedures, multiple changes that alienated the PvP community, bad CR team that doesn't have a clue about how PvP works, and just an overall company that puts monster gameplay issues on the backseat in favor of minor changes that make a larger community giggle.

The problem is that they screwed over PvP and nobody has convinced me otherwise. Maybe they KNOW what they are doing, but they sure as hell haven't shown it or told us about it. Every change they make takes AGES, and even many of those changes turned out bad.

Unfortunately, QFT. I, too, am a once loyal customer who won't be back.

Despozblehero · Jul 15, 2007, 09:13 PM // 21:13

Actions speak louder than words.....look at the last time a dev posted in the PvP forums (specifically the higher lvl pvps like GvG/HA), and even then the like 2 that youll find feel like nothing more than to string players along for a bit.
Just do what i saw Gaile suggest DONT PLAY THE GAME lol my guildies already bought a new game 3 days ago, ANET lost us, I dont feel that they care and that seems to be the only thing they want to hear from their longtime playerbase... *silence*.

urania · Jul 15, 2007, 09:23 PM // 21:23

Do you honestly think anyone from anet actually cares much about losing a few customers here and there because there'll still be enough pve only players more than happy with the current state of the game?

: |

Death_From_Above · Jul 15, 2007, 11:05 PM // 23:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Despozblehero

Actions speak louder than words.....look at the last time a dev posted in the PvP forums (specifically the higher lvl pvps like GvG/HA), and even then the like 2 that youll find feel like nothing more than to string players along for a bit.
Just do what i saw Gaile suggest DONT PLAY THE GAME lol my guildies already bought a new game 3 days ago, ANET lost us, I dont feel that they care and that seems to be the only thing they want to hear from their longtime playerbase... *silence*.

Lol when did galie suggest that can you maybe get me a link. But funny i would say being people have already taken her advice in large numbers hence pvp is basically dead or shall i say HA. This is where the problem is, rather than fix the problems which everyone hates such as kill count anet feel there ideas are far more superior and will work and hence just ignore us. They say come on the forums and share your views we listern to it. This is properganda i say. Properganda. Regarding pvp anet have messed it up and no one can deny this.

The thing which is annoying is they could have had very good pvp and pve but they decided to just ignore pvp and focus on pve thus eliminating the pvp community. An as for what you said about anet stringing us on, thats 100 percent correct and funny you should say that because many of my friends have said the same thing. Pop on the forums every 6 months an say to the HA community were working on it KTHANXBI. Or change stuff ever so slightly, its beyond a joke.

As for gw 2 selling i am quite confident it will sell well looking at some of the new features. I feel it may become a rival for wow if anet do a good job of it. However my honest opinion is that the pvp side of it will be basically pve pvp if you understand me. It would not be as hard core pvp like intense battles where your in your moderate size groups and every man counts, battles which make you sweat. I say this judging by what has been said concerning pvp for gw 2 (though this may change but i doubt very much). So overall conclusion in terms of gw 2. It will sell well and will go on to be big but the pvp element of it will never rival or be as good as gw. This is because anet wants to make it noob friendly and basically from what i read get rid of the steep learning curve which seperated those who were experianced from those who where not.

Despozblehero · Jul 16, 2007, 12:39 AM // 00:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Death_From_Above

Lol when did galie suggest that can you maybe get me a link.

Sorry i was looking for the exact posting but i cant find it. She did not say word for word dont play the game ever anymore... It wasnt a very good thread and the OP said some stupid stuff but the idea that was passed along that if youve played through the games story and the grinding after the "game" isnt fun anymore dont play it... come back later and all that... but imho all the game offers is title grinding(some arent so bad ill admit) but lots are boring mindless junk... and the question came up "what else do i do?", by a long time player... the universal answer was to stop playing the game, whether you come back or not is up to you... even from Gaile... To me a person representing the company shouldnt tell you to stop using it (unless its harmful). You also got to take into account that what we have now was not what the game was when it was 1st released. If you had explained itd become the PvE titles and ignored PvP stuff to me, id have never bought it, as many of the people who have the game today. THEY CHANGED THE ENTIRE GAME! To me its discouraging because once again instead of encouraging the longtime player they tell them to go elsewhere... wtf?

kosh · Jul 16, 2007, 11:06 AM // 11:06

ok... i prob could say many points that other ppl said already etc... but i wont.

all i want to say is this:

dear a.net... 2 years of gw....

WHERE THE HELL ARE MY NEW HA MAPS???

kthx.

Kas · Jul 16, 2007, 11:31 AM // 11:31

A-Nets real problem is a habit of splitting their playerbase in half over and over again. This naturally leads to decay of a game, sort of like the half-life time of the game.

Tijger · Jul 16, 2007, 12:41 PM // 12:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by urania

Do you honestly think anyone from anet actually cares much about losing a few customers here and there because there'll still be enough pve only players more than happy with the current state of the game?

: |

The question could be, why should they care about a minority of self proclaimed 'hardcore' players (whatever the hell that may be) when the much bigger majority who also gives them a lot less grief doesnt care one iota about their 'issues'?

I remember PvP as being fun and a challenge but it wasnt Anet who ruined PvP imho, it was the players, maybe all you 'hardcore' PvP'ers should take a good hard look at your own behavior (and yes, thats a generalization) in game and towards other, less experienced, players.
I dont go into PvP anymore because I dont appreciate the kind of abuse, raqequitting and general bad behavior you see from other players there, its that simple and it has nothing to do with builds, skills or aptitude.

I'm afraid such criticism will fall on deaf ears since we all know 'ANerf' is the root of all evil which is a real shame.