 |
|
|
|||||||
| View Poll Results: Would you like killcount to be removed from HA? | |||
| Yes, I would like it to be removed from all maps. |
   
|
302 | 69.43% |
| No, leave it, killcount is fine. |
  
|
46 | 10.57% |
| Remove killcount on Broken Tower; Leave it on Courtyard. |
  
|
46 | 10.57% |
| Remove killcount on Courtyard; Leave it on Broken Tower. |
  
|
41 | 9.43% |
| Voters: 435. This poll is closed | |||
 |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
Jul 01, 2007, 10:00 PM // 22:00
|
#241 | ||
|
Wilds Pathfinder
Join Date: Apr 2006
|
Quote:
we have run a mo/w with signet of judgement and crushing blow and won we have run a w/mo with holy strike and won we have run a ritualist/ele with grasping was kuruson and aftershock and won we have run lifesheath prot monk and won we ran a 2monk backline in HA before any other team did and won we are one of the only teams to run an air ele in our balanced builds and win so no... i dont care wat skills we bring to HA atm... cos we can win regardless. You know of any other guilds or teams or players who are as willing or able to field off the wall skills like we do and succeed in winning HoH? Dont talk to me about skill please. You are way out of your league. Besides you seem to be contradicting your previous post concerning the NECESSITY of spellbreaker/ward stability/and either guardian or SoD. Are you now turning around and saying that if old style altar capping came back you could win HoH without these 3 skills PURELY by out playing the other TWO teams? Listen, i know you mean well, but the more you post the more you contradict yourself and the more your position becomes untenable. First you talk about how you need to nerf this skill and that skill... then you say you only need 3 skills to win old style altar holding then you tell everyone that skills dont matter. sigh Quote:
old HoH was as stale as current HA. The ONLY time there was a large variety of builds was in the first 6 months after GW prophecies release. This was the time where everyone was figuring things out and experimenting with ALL the skills. As time went by people learned the mechanics and begun to use the skills that took advantage of the mechanics. I just remind you again that a vast swathe of top players and teams left GW because of the stagnant and horrible interrupt wars that came from the old style altar capping. the past incarnations of HA had their own problems... just as the current incarnation does. However... the best route to take is to just tweak the current mechanics to iron out the things that make them broken. We should be focusing our attentions to this rather than screaming for the old times to be reintroduced. this discussion about old style altar holding is not helping Anet fix HA. Last edited by Lorekeeper; Jul 01, 2007 at 10:09 PM // 22:09.. |
||
|
|
Jul 01, 2007, 10:27 PM // 22:27
|
#242 | ||||||||||||||
|
Krytan Explorer
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Ottawa, Canada
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
The fact is that you can't be prepared for all situations at once, you just have to play your best and hope that's enough. You can't switch skills during matches. While certain skills will help you, they are not completely necessary, its been proven possible to win without them. The fact that certain skills are very useful does not make old HoH a bad game mode. |
||||||||||||||
|
|
|
Jul 01, 2007, 10:35 PM // 22:35
|
#243 |
|
Lion's Arch Merchant
Join Date: Dec 2006
Profession: W/E
|
To be honest with you lorekeeper, i know if im on about the correct person you have produced some good posts in the past such as the one on kill count. That hit every nail on the dot. But for these recent posts i think youv sort of gone into a tangent basically saying things which many people know are either not true or entierly unrealistic. Yes 2 chocking gass rangers is a hassil but its not impossible to cap with. I would know iv had my share of these guys on alter maps. Also, you rarely see teams which have 2 chocking gass rangers. This is because it basically handicaps you for other maps and lowers your damage output. The fact is as i said before, check HA back in the past when it was 8v8 with alters. You will find all teams never took chocking gass rangers. All you need to do is remember heavy hex to and spikes ect and other builds such as some balanced. I recall fighting many teams who never even used 1 cg. Secondly, the chance of teams using 2 cgs is a bit far fecthed. You make it sound like its common when it really isnt.
The reason, 8 chars say 3 monks so 5 chars take 2 cgs an you have 3 does not leave you as much to work with, so you need 3 chars to dish out your huge damage and defend perhaps like wards or something. You really recon your going to be untouchable with that? You recon you will find it easy to get past maps like relic runs ect with that. Basically already your slightly handicaped it takes skill. Next point, the timer is x amount of time. Yes some teams wait till 4 mins or 3 but not all. Some people go in earlier not because they can fend from 2 teams. But perhaps because they think they can. Or maybe they think one team because of there build they will have difficulty kicking them off. I dont care if your batman super man or spiderman. You can never cap at 6 min and be 100 percent sure you can hold of the enermy teams unless they were utter noobs or there builds basically had no utility to counter yours. Also about the interupting. Interuptings a skill and as for needing to shut down like 4 cgs, number 1 as i said before 2 cgs in a teams rare. Number 2, 4 cgs? The holding would most likely be pressured and basically killing there cgs would be a sicth. Then you have the issue the enermy may do the job for you. So basically its just you and the enermy. If this imaginary problem you claime follows alter capping where true. As i said before many people would not have quit with kill count comming if it were better. Also why did so many people enjoy and like it and also have no problem with alter capping? As i said before, if there where so many problems why was there no request for a change in mechanics before hand. As for many people quiting because of interupt wars *in which you needed to utilize skill.* I hardly find this believeable. I have yet to really hear people complain when im playing or friends or people on the forums about interupting on the alter. I do however hear when im playing kill count sucks. I rarely hear about ohhhh no an alter map its interupt wars now. Also your forgeting, HA with alter caps and 8v8 was only a 3 way alter map in HA. So whats the prob? Your basically looking for problems which are not there. Now as iv said and as ill say again, before anything else can be further discused we need 2 know how much time anet are willing to spend on HA. As for many people not knowing about the old alter capping system. So what if its true *im not sure if it is*, alter capping worked and because of this if it is brought back, as its a working very good mechanic. I doubt people would flee because of no kill count. Its like if im eating a plain buiscuit. I Got a sweet tooth. and someone trades me my biscuit for a cookie. |
|
|
|
Jul 01, 2007, 11:05 PM // 23:05
|
#244 | |||
|
Krytan Explorer
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Ottawa, Canada
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Last edited by Randomway Ftw; Jul 01, 2007 at 11:46 PM // 23:46.. |
|||
|
|
|
Jul 01, 2007, 11:32 PM // 23:32
|
#245 | ||
|
Wilds Pathfinder
Join Date: Apr 2006
|
Quote:
i wish i had recordings of the old Tombs days... still you dont seem to acknowledge the fact that such a large part of the upper tier of the tombs community stopped playing because of interrupt wars. Your entire post, your attempts to counter my examples of things that can disrupt the holy trinity of spellbreaker/SoD/Stability just exemplfies the exact type of thing that was hated. Your right it is impossible for 1 team to 100% keep 2 other teams from capping or interrupting its ghost. Thats been the whole purpose of my argument from the very start. It all comes down to hope... you hope that you get the lucky cap... you hope that your attempts to shutdown 50-75% of the 2 teams capping utility is enough. But you can never be sure. You rely on the other teams to interrupt and shut eachother down... you hope that at some moment they focus too much attention on eachother and forget about you... and it just takes that bit of time to allow you to cap. if winning HoH is decided on by lady luck like i said... whats the point? why fight through all the maps... beat all those teams... run all those relics and kill all those monks if the last map you fight on might aswell be decided by a roll of dice? and this is the logical conclusion to our arguments... skill x can counter skill y... but you can never bring enough x to counter y... so just keep fingers crossed you did enough. no thanks, i didnt put all my effort making my build and gaining all my experience fighting in HA for everything to be decided on something out of my hands. No wonder so many good players left the game. And you want it back? Quote:
Cg rangers were meta for a very long period of time. For most balanced teams they had to bring at least 1 cg ranger because it served 2 purposes... it gave them great altar control and it kept in check the bloodspikes which were rampant back then. im not making things up... im talking from experience. People left the game because of the stale nature that Tombs took during this time of bloodspike and interrupt wars. heavy hex teams were used yes... but if you remember the heavy hex teams i really dont see how you dont remember the cg rangers because the cg rangers were used to counter the hex teams. Im telling you guys... if altar holding came back at the ONLY HoH map... all teams would be designed towards altar capping. Cg rangers would come back. Interrupt wars would come back. Yes i know kill count is bad, but going back to the old system IS NOT the solution. death from above im sorry to say this but it sounds like you are mixing up the current altar mechanic with the old. Interrupt wars does not exist in the current mechanic because of the 2 second cap resource time and i have little complain about interrupt wars in king of the hill right now... i also dont know many who do... but thats not my point. the current king of the hill mechanic is far superior to the old mechanic. there is much less emphasis on the act of capping... and much more emphasis on the act of holding and gaining an extra point. Theres added side strategies of killing ghosts and monks after auto rez timers but as long as the altar is available for capping it usually is not long before *someone* caps. The only issue with the current king of the hill is that teams who lag behind in points have no hope of catching up in the last stages of the game... and so i implore you guys to go read my ideas that i posted in the first few pages of this thread where i make a suggestion which might solve this problem. This is a far better use of our time. as far as im concerned old style capping should never return... HoH should never be a single map. Multiple objective rotation should stay. |
||
|
|
|
Jul 01, 2007, 11:45 PM // 23:45
|
#246 | ||
|
Wilds Pathfinder
Join Date: Apr 2006
|
Quote:
are you just reinforcing my point? thanks but there was no need. Quote:
stop contradicting yourself please! the whole problem with interrupt wars is that its impossible for 1 team to keep 2 teams from capping the altar in addition to ensuring that its own ghost caps. you yourself have admitted this much... so why do you want this back in HA? yes kill count is bad... yes the current 3 maps in HoH arent perfect but the solution to one problem is not to replace it with another problem. kill count needs to be replaced... of that most are certain of and we would all agree on that i think and the current 3 map mechanics in HOH need rethinking. but i think the best way forward is for everyone to try to think whats wrong with HoH atm and think of ways to solve these issues rather than demand another overhaul of the syste, which is quite unrealistic to expect since almost every attempt to completely revinvent tombs/ha has failed. i think enough has been said about the faults of kill count time for new ideas... |
||
|
|
|
Jul 01, 2007, 11:49 PM // 23:49
|
#247 |
|
Lion's Arch Merchant
Join Date: Dec 2006
Profession: W/E
|
I assumed if HA where to have alter mechanics back, then we would have the 5 second cap time back. 2 seconds cap time its just utterly rediculous. Its basically dumbing HA down to such a level i wonder what new problems it would create.
|
|
|
|
Jul 02, 2007, 12:01 AM // 00:01
|
#248 |
|
Just Plain Fluffy
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Berkeley, CA
Guild: Idiot Savants
|
To be up front about it, I'm a casual HA player. At most I'll play it a couple nights a week as a diversion and a change of pace, it's not an environment I expect to or even want to take seriously.
From what I've played of Kill Count, I like the format in general. There's more being coordinated than in any other game type, and while the tactics aren't too deep they're still important. In the abstract, my main complaint is that the scoring system neglects a lot of the depth of Guild Wars and simply rewards damage...I.E., shutting down a Monk with a Mesmer can be a huge part of scoring kills, but the game only counts the raw damage dealt when figuring out who gets the point. Sometimes the points get attributed in odd ways because of it, which can be maddening in a tight game. On the flip side, I like how it rewards brute force as a common, early map objective. The rest of the modes do not reward brute force nearly as much, if at all, and kill count filters teams out to an extent. For an individual kill count match, I'd consider chopping the duration down to 6, 5, or even 4 minutes. A game feels a lot like the old HoH in a lot of ways, with teams running around and avoiding confrontation for several minutes until time pressure kicks in and forces some engagement if a team wants to win. That usually starts to happen around the 4 minute mark in my experience. A lot of the strategy on kill count does come down to picking on the weaker teams...however, that's true of every multi team format. Ultimately it does come down to good coordination, and it does reward forcing mistakes through aggressive movement, which are signs of a healthy game type. In the HoH: The new altar capping mechanism is excellent. I've enjoyed all of the altar games I've played, as timing, offense, and defense are all rewarded well. Against decent teams you should expect to need to cap and hold the altar multiple times to force a win. Halls would have been a much different animal with this form of holding in the game, even before the flurry of changes. Definitely the best change overall. I wouldn't mind HoH if it were nothing but new holding to be honest. Relics on the other hand are terrible. It is basically impossible to stake out a sizable lead with three teams, and every game comes down the virtually the same scenario: all 3 teams effectively tied with a minute to go, with the team to cap the very last relic winning. If only one team can get into position to cap the last relic, great, then that team wins the 20 second part of the match that matters...otherwise, it's a crapshot on who cut the trigger closest before time expired. Basically, of every format in HA relics in hall are easily the most random. But even beyond that, it rivals the old altar mechanics in how tedious it is. The first six minutes of the match do not matter at all. I'm used to several of our players alt-tabbing out of Guild Wars for the beginning of the match because it really does not matter if they are there or not. Then they just come back in to watch the next minute and get in position for the last 20 seconds where you fight to get in position to cap last. That is how it plays out every time unless both opposing teams are terrible. To fix the format, at the very least I would switch the tiebreaker to reward the team that captured first in the case of a tie, not last. If that were the case, there would be an actual reward for having a lead at any point, and the strategies in the last couple minutes would need to change to reflect taking a lead. As is, taking a lead in the last minute is a liability, since it only means that you will lose the tiebreaker if anything happens. If all three teams are stuck on 20, and you break free the bodyblock with 10 seconds left to cap, you *can't* cap or you'll probably lose unless both other teams are locked down. That is beyond stupid. Cap points are ok. I don't like how, moreso than any format, it's dictated by the bad players. Basically, the team that's uninvolved in any movement decisions tends to come out ahead, and the bad teams tend to run around more and who they choose to attack makes a big mark on the outcome. The outlaying cap points doubling as res shrines is a pain, as you can't win a skirmish there for any period of time as their casualties res on you again and again. Maybe tinkering with res mechanics here would be a good idea. There's nothing horribly wrong with cap points, it just doesn't feel right in HoH and isn't terribly fun.
__________________
Don't argue with idiots. They bring you to their level and beat you with experience. |
|
|
|
Jul 02, 2007, 12:07 AM // 00:07
|
#249 | |
|
Wilds Pathfinder
Join Date: Apr 2006
|
Quote:
This is a great improvement over the oldstyle capping system. If HoH was a single map i would much prefer this new altar capping mechanic to the older one. if they just improved the current king of the hill wouldnt that be good? |
|
|
|
|
Jul 02, 2007, 12:13 AM // 00:13
|
#250 | |
|
Wilds Pathfinder
Join Date: Apr 2006
|
Quote:
Have a look at the ideas i posted about what might solve the problems of relic runs and capture points and king of the hill. Ive yet to read much feedback on them and id be interested to hear what people have to say. theyre on page 7 http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...0152771&page=7 Last edited by Lorekeeper; Jul 02, 2007 at 12:27 AM // 00:27.. |
|
|
|
|
Jul 02, 2007, 12:28 AM // 00:28
|
#251 |
|
Krytan Explorer
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Ottawa, Canada
|
Lorekeeper, you seem to have this idea that you have the god given right to win all matches, and any time you lose it is because of the lameness of interrupts. Cheaters stole the win from you because they interrupted your ghostly.
You are also forgetting about body blocking the ghostly, as that frees up some shutdown to deal with the people interrupting your ghostly. Stop telling me to stop contradicting myself kthx. It isn't possible to completely deal with all threats to capping but it is possible to greatly minimize them. as long the final map is 3 way there will always be an element of luck involved. The new game modes involve much more luck then the old one. The type of 3 way map that minimizes the chance of ganking and luck screwing things up is an altar holding map. People have quit this game for all kinds of reasons, interrupt wars may have have been one of them but it is definitely not the number one reason, in fact its probably very far down the list. Things such as the lack of game balance, Kill count, new objectives, Iway, the nerfing of iway, and just getting bored of the game are more common. |
|
|
|
Jul 02, 2007, 01:13 AM // 01:13
|
#252 | |
|
Wilds Pathfinder
Join Date: Apr 2006
|
Quote:
it was possible back then to block the ghostly with 1 person... but anet changed this by making is only possible to block him with like 2-3 people. Its pretty obvious anet want to make capping as easy as possible... theyve reduced cap times to 2... made blocking the ghost harder and increase the area of the altar on which the ghost starts the capping process. Anet themselves seem to have moved the game away from the interrupting game. I think improbable that they will make yet another U-turn. i never said interrupt wars was the only reason why people left the game why do you feel the need to post that? you want old style altar holding back and i told you that old style altar capping and the problem that came from that mechanic were the very reason why many people left the game. Whether other people left for other reasons is irrelevant. unfortunately nothing you have said so far has made the old style cap mechanic sound appealing. Maybe if you propose some tweaks to the way it worked... or entertain the possibility of tweaking the current HoH mechanics? |
|
|
|
|
Jul 02, 2007, 01:16 AM // 01:16
|
#253 | ||||
|
Krytan Explorer
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Ottawa, Canada
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Last edited by Randomway Ftw; Jul 02, 2007 at 01:29 AM // 01:29.. |
||||
|
|
|
Jul 02, 2007, 01:42 AM // 01:42
|
#254 | |
|
Wilds Pathfinder
Join Date: Apr 2006
|
Quote:
are they beyond repair? This is my point... just because they arent working so well does it mean they need to be scrapped entirely? Can you at least consider tweaking them a little to make them work better? What is it about the current HoH mechanics that you dont like... did you bother to read ensigns or my posts about the HoH mechanics? Did you read my suggestions concerning what might be changed to make them work better? you cant just say they suck and demand a revert back to the old style altar capping... they had their own problems as we have been discussing. So instead of yoyoing back and forth between broken mechanics how about looking closely at the mechanics themselves and trying to figure out wats broken about them and try to suggest things that might fix them... possible or no? |
|
|
|
|
Jul 02, 2007, 02:29 AM // 02:29
|
#255 | |
|
Krytan Explorer
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Ottawa, Canada
|
Quote:
Relics are flawed because of how whenever one team pulls ahead the other two slow it down, leading to the result almost always being very close. New Kill of the Hill works with a 2v1 scenario but has a few flaws first of all if the holding team controls the altar for the first 4 minutes they clinch victory. This is not necessarily better than the old system when you had a chance up until the final seconds. Even worse is the fact that there is a longer wait time between matches (opening the chest definitely does not take that long, maybe its to prevent skips?). In order to improve this mode you would have to have the end give more points. I think that the best point spread would be half during the first 6 minutes, and half druing the final 2 minutes. |
|
|
|
|
Jul 02, 2007, 04:16 AM // 04:16
|
#256 |
|
Krytan Explorer
Join Date: Jan 2006
Guild: .:Pro Guildhopper:.
Profession: Mo/Me
|
not to increase the flaming, but blackout doesn't stop the ghost from capping
|
|
|
|
Jul 02, 2007, 07:48 AM // 07:48
|
#257 | ||
|
Krytan Explorer
Join Date: Apr 2006
Guild: Rurik Drops The [sOap]
Profession: Me/N
|
Quote:
Quote:
Funny. |
||
|
|
|
Jul 02, 2007, 10:19 AM // 10:19
|
#258 | |
|
Wilds Pathfinder
Join Date: Apr 2006
|
Quote:
If its just the implementation of an idea that is flawed... all that needs to be done is a tweaking of the implementation. In this case, it is clear that we would like to be rewarded for running relics faster than other teams rather than the situation we have now where its actually better to run slower than other teams. What could be done to encourage teams to run faster than others? IDEAS please! With regards to king of the hill, yes, like many have said before, the flaw in the system is that its impossible for teams to catch up if they fall behind in the scores in the early stages of the battle. This doesnt mean that the idea behind the point system is flawed... the implementation is flawed, it does get rid of the problem of the 2min rush that the old altar capping had and we dont have interrupt wars anymore but its not perfect. There needs to be a points system where all 3 teams have an equal chance of winning right up until the very end of the game. But i say this with an ounce of caution. It should never be possible for some crappy team to clinch a lucky victory at the end of the game because they happened to cap last. But it should be possible for an unlucky decent team to work hard back into the game and earn victory after a slow start. Perhaps the points awarded for holding should scale with the number of consecutive points... perhaps you should earn more points the closer the timer reaches 0.00. keeping in line with analysing existing game mechanics to see if they can be tweaked. Lets have a think about the old cap system. The main concerns with that system are that 1) The only thing that mattered was who held the altar when the timer reached 0 so most teams opted to wait until the final few minutes of the match... leaving the rest of the match quite pointless and boring. Thank goodness for alt tabbing. 2) 5 second cap time meant that interrupting ghostlies was a viable way of holding the altar until 0.00 3) Ghosts could be body blocked from reaching the altar by 1 person 4) Some builds were defensive enough to be able to survive a couple of minutes against 2 teams. various mechanic changes to the game have caused a few of the above to be resolved... however some have not been resolved. i) ghostly cap resource now takes 2seconds, this makes interrupting much harder than before. My grandma could go make a cup of tea and still come back in time to interrupt the ghost. Now it takes a great deal more awareness in order to catch the ghosts cap. A slight laspe in concentration and the chance is lost. This rewards teams with high awareness of the battle and punishes teams who lose focus and get side tracked. Much better imo. ii) ghosts are much harder to block now, it takes a snare and maybe a kd in order to allow 2-3 people to block the ghost well enough so that he does not find a path to the altar. In addition, Anet made the entire altar cappable, this makes it much harder to prevent the ghost from reaching a cappable position. We must assume that Anet implemented this so that HOH was not so focused around the actions of an NPC. This was a big concern for many players. Its a concern that affects HA as well as GvG. The current HA mechanics have helped to reduce the attention on the ghostly hero, thats not to say that the ghosty hero is no longer important, but we no longer have 3 maps where ghostly hero AI decides the outcome of the fight. This is how pvp should be... players vs player. Not player vs AI. iii) kill count was supposed to weed out super defensive builds by making it necessary to bring a good offense. However, spike builds never had the problem with having enough offense and they were the main holding builds that people were sick of in the old days. So unfortunately kill count has failed to weed out the builds it was designed to weed out. The rit spike you see today has a massive spike and in a 1vs1 fight it takes a great deal of pressure to out dmg their defense. Unfortunately the amount of caster hate in HA is largely nonexistent due to the demands of kill count, the most you see is a single Dom mesmer in a balanced team. Bloodspike was the caster spike that held the old style altars due in part to its spirit spammer (now nerfed and easily countered by a Pd mesmer) and the huge benefits of soul reaping. Bloodspike is no longer the strong build it used to be... and the most recent nerfs to soul reaping make it much weaker than it was before. unfortunately rit spike has replaced bloodspike as the king of holding builds. It would be a great step for Anet to balance this build somehow. The imbalance can only be understood with a understanding of the build. Firstly in order to adequately shut a rit spike down you need to shutdown the vital weapon... however because of the nature of weapon spells the only way you can do this is to interrupt the spell, diversion it, or kill the rit using it. A mesmer is usually necessary to counter this skill. The stronger version of rit spike uses a necro/assassin to telegraph the dmg... unfortunately unlike other spikes which telegraph themselves with a hex like PP/SD the necro/assassin is nigh on impossible to shutdown. PP/SD could easily be shutdown with a PD mesmer with quick reflexes... in addition, the 15 second recharge and the single target nature of the spike helped to balance its effectiveness. The necro/assassin rit spike has none of these weaknesses. He uses deadly paradox to reduce the recharge times of key skills like augury of death, iron palm, and shadow prison. The dmg of the spike comes from ancestors rage which does 100+ dmg to casters and can hit foes adjacent to target. Ancestors rage has a 1 second cast time and a 8sec recharge. Deadly paradox buffed augury and shadow prison allow the nec/ass rit spike to spike almost every 8 seconds under ideal conditions with a deep wound. Even if half the rits ancestors rages hit the target the deep wound makes the spike kill. Even without the augury of death, the amount of rits using ancestors rage kills the target anyway. A few skill balances are needed. augury of death - increase recharge time and casting time to make this hex interruptable. Perhaps even change the condition for deep wound 25%. ancestors rage and spirit burn - increase cast time or recharge time of both in line with other high dmg spike skills. Like lightning orb which has a 2 second cast and a 15e cost. vital weapon - increase nrg cost to 10e, increase cast time to 2sec. with regards to the defense of these builds... i fear little can be done to balance the skills since balancing the restoration spells for 8 ritualists might inadvertently nerf solo restoration rits out of the game more than they already are. iv) the solution to the last minute capping problem has been solved in part by the new style cap system where it actually matters how long you hold for. its not perfect but we do not have the old problems anymore. We have a new problem but its a far cry to say its not fixable. i just cant see how the old style mechanic should come back. the new king of the hill is leaps and bounds better. Just needs tweaking. |
|
|
|
|
Jul 02, 2007, 02:35 PM // 14:35
|
#259 |
|
Frost Gate Guardian
Join Date: Feb 2007
Profession: W/A
|
Lorekeeper :
keeping in line with analysing existing game mechanics to see if they can be tweaked. Lets have a think about the old cap system. The main concerns with that system are that 1) The only thing that mattered was who held the altar when the timer reached 0 so most teams opted to wait until the final few minutes of the match... leaving the rest of the match quite pointless and boring. Thank goodness for alt tabbing. 2) 5 second cap time meant that interrupting ghostlies was a viable way of holding the altar until 0.00 3) Ghosts could be body blocked from reaching the altar by 1 person 4) Some builds were defensive enough to be able to survive a couple of minutes against 2 teams. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Altar Holding. 1 : In 3 way halls the match was 4 mins so u only waited like 1 min to run in 2 : Okey lets say that ppl will use 1-2 cgs again, How hard is it to shutdown 1 ranger that is interrupting ur ghostly? if ur a balanced this should be really easy, And the thing u say that ppl quitted gw cause of "interrupt wars" , BS ? 3 : Bodyblocking ghost with 1 person can be changed, dont you need 2-3 players now? why dont u just keep it? 4: Believe me, in 8v8 its not gonna be those retarded holding builds as in 6v6, and even if ppl start playing those, in 8v8 u can bring so many things to kill the holding builds, give me some examples of the "defensive" builds. Last edited by Takida; Jul 02, 2007 at 02:39 PM // 14:39.. |
|
|
|
Jul 02, 2007, 02:41 PM // 14:41
|
#260 |
|
Jungle Guide
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: USA
Guild: Lack of Talent [Luck]
Profession: P/
|
Someone posted ideas about types of bonuses players should get for running faster relics somewhere, but it was lost in the flames and I cant find it again. Ill reiterate the better parts of teh post.
Party wide bonuses that scales the further ahead of the other teams you are. ie: team movement speed increased spell cost decreased etc etc etc However, This would still do little to change the strategy of this map. IMO there needs to be DP on this map, and no res after 60dp. Tired of seeing the same water ele run all teh way back to my relic just to try and get some snares on me. I think i kill these guys about 10 or more times in a single match. ---------- Capture points needs to be reworked or abandonded. Its always decided by the team that doesnt feel it can win, so it wants to make you lose. The setup of the map is lousy for such an objective anyway. For example, say yellow decids to run full team into blue since they are so far ahead, and blue falls back. Leaving you with the center altar, your base, and yellows unprotected base. You have to be sure to send a decent amount of dmg and healpower to yellows base to safely cap it anyway, since they will res on you and wipe your split. Butif you do this, and either of the two teams decides blues base isnt worth it, then you just potentially lost the center AND either of the 2 bases, likely your own since you will be ahead at this point. ----------------- Im actually fairly pleased with the current king of the hill mechanic. The only types of teams I have trouble removing from the altar are rt spike teams. But after capping the altar and holding for a few points, since usually its pretty tough to hold for 4 minutes, the rest of the battle becomes who do i NOT let cap the altar. It can get fairly complicated sometimes, but I only rarely see a team hold for 4 minutes straight. Usually a rt spike, though sometimes I see a decent balance hold it. ------------------ Kill count Im actually a supporter of kill count, but imo its broken the way its implemented, fix it or ditch it. My suggestions on it are posted a couple pages back. |
|
|
|
|
«
Previous Thread
|
Next Thread
»
| Thread Tools | |
| Display Modes | |
Linear Mode
|
|
All times are GMT. The time now is 02:57 PM // 14:57.
jQuery(document).ready(checkAds()); function checkAds(){if (document.getElementById('adsense')!=undefined){document.write("_gaq.push(['_trackEvent', 'Adblock', 'Unblocked', 'false',,true]);");}else{document.write("