Curse

Nurse With Wound · May 04, 2007, 12:17 AM // 00:17

Due to popular demand im making a poll for this. Vote and post how and why you've voted, or just simply cast a vote. Post in here your thoughts about what they should put instead of it. Oldschool altar holding? Deathmatches? Runs? Or something totally different? Dont offtopic or flame in here. Try avoiding long arguments, lets keep this thread on track.

Tea Girl · May 04, 2007, 12:37 AM // 00:37

Thanks Nurse =)

Make BT alter and keep Courtyard killcount.

HoH - 3x rotation with killcount, old style alter, and relic run.

-OR-

A few new maps with novel objectives! But I doubt ANet wubs HA that much ^^;;

Div · May 04, 2007, 04:06 AM // 04:06

Having at least one kill count (probably on courtyard) would discourage pure holding teams. Having it too early causes people to run lame pure damage builds to farm early fame, but removing it as a whole is pretty bad too. That said, I'd like to see some mechanics changes though. Maybe Points = # kills - 1/2 # deaths. I've had many games where the other team was simply faster at killing the third noob team, but the died quite a lot also. We on the other hand, weren't as fast but never died once. Sometimes we won, sometimes we lost, but it's pretty ridiculous to lose because the other team has more AoE DPS that can kill idiots who think kiting is stupid.

Daedrus · May 04, 2007, 07:57 AM // 07:57

I think its perfectly acceptable to have a couple kill count matches in there; it requires teams to have enough damage to stay on top of the pile, not just wear down a single team or hold a point. Keep it.

Lord Mendes · May 04, 2007, 08:18 AM // 08:18

As long as halls remains multiple objectives, I don't think altar holding on the earlier maps (courtyard, broken) should be an issue, and hopefully it won't lead to uber defensive builds. I do however think that claim resources should remain a 2 second cast (I think it isn't affected by song anymore, though I might be wrong) with a +x% chance of failing to interupt after every succesful interupt on claim resources itself.
Also, the ghostly should have a permanent speed buff on altar maps, and should stop being a retard and locking on to the altar while blocked.

Another idea I have been toying around with:
Curse of the altar: "Whenever you are standing on (or around, preferable aggro bubble range) the altar, you take 25% more damage and cannot use shouts, spirits, rituals, traps, weapon spells (or anything else that makes altars extremely annoying)".
I know this sounds like a retarded idea (and probably is) but it might reduce the gayness of people camping an altar and spamming their shit.

Add DP to halls, because pushing up knowing you will take many deaths but still get away with what you are trying to accomplish is retarded.

Good thread Nurse <3

Cass · May 04, 2007, 08:41 AM // 08:41

I voted to remove it on Broken Tower, just because Anet will be unwilling to completely wipe this 'cool new game mode' (cough) altogether. But having it twice as it is now is annoying. DP should be brought back to all other maps as well.

The best games in HA are those in which you have a straight 1on1 fight with a base/priest to defend or a relic to run, IMO. 3ways, including those in Halls, have a large luck/idiocy factor with the current win conditions, for example when a weak team in killcount gets farmed, or when a clueless team in Halls attacks whoever is in C-space range rather than the leading team.

@ Mendes - So people will just stand a little to the side and spam from there...

FoxBat · May 04, 2007, 08:50 AM // 08:50

I am fine with an all-out agressive, kill as many as you can all out 3-way chaos, even if that meant things like mesmers having no place, luck involved in gank etc, as this is HA. The problem is with teams that know anything at all, it's more like cowardly dancing around for 5 minutes to avoid sandwiched positioning, followed by a quick minute or two of gank and it's over. I think that's pretty far from what the game type was trying to promote.

I'd be curious how the kill count would differ if holding the altar actually meant something more than a piddly 10% damage bonus that may not even work at all.

Also, cap points for Courtyard.

Lord Mendes · May 04, 2007, 11:57 AM // 11:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cass

@ Mendes - So people will just stand a little to the side and spam from there...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mendes

"Whenever you are standing on (or around, preferable aggro bubble range) the altar, you take 25% more damage and cannot use shouts, spirits, rituals, traps, weapon spells (or anything else that makes altars extremely annoying)".

Well I really don't know whether it would do much or not, just sharing something I thought of last night (btw sorry about the rage, I really had to leave, I was half an hour late and didn't want to deal with the "oh no's, noob!" comments. My bad

CYBER LATER).
The idea behind this is that 8 paragons with 9999 armor on an altar is bad, 8 trappers on an altar spamming stuff is bad, rits with 99 spirits on an altar is bad, maintaining an unstripable guardian on the ghostly is bad.
Though the idea is probably retarded.
*thinks of something better*

Randomway Ftw · May 04, 2007, 12:18 PM // 12:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Mendes

As long as halls remains multiple objectives, I don't think altar holding on the earlier maps (courtyard, broken) should be an issue, and hopefully it won't lead to uber defensive builds. I do however think that claim resources should remain a 2 second cast (I think it isn't affected by song anymore, though I might be wrong) with a +x% chance of failing to interupt after every succesful interupt on claim resources itself.
Also, the ghostly should have a permanent speed buff on altar maps, and should stop being a retard and locking on to the altar while blocked.

Don't want to start an arguement but there would be no real point of all that, all it would do would make it so noobs can capture an altar without doing anything. It would be ok if they made it so you could move a ghostly out of a perma body block though.

Quote:

Another idea I have been toying around with:
Curse of the altar: "Whenever you are standing on (or around, preferable aggro bubble range) the altar, you take 25% more damage and cannot use shouts, spirits, rituals, traps, weapon spells (or anything else that makes altars extremely annoying)".
I know this sounds like a retarded idea (and probably is) but it might reduce the gayness of people camping an altar and spamming their shit.

I'm sorry but that really just seems like an easy mode button for the attacking teams.

Lorekeeper · May 04, 2007, 04:03 PM // 16:03

My thoughts and suggestions

1) Replace Broken Tower Kill Count with Capture points system

- rez shrines in current Broken Tower map are converted into a combination of res shrine+capturable point. Capping other teams res shrines does not prevent them from being rezzed.
- each surrounding point awards 1 point every 30 seconds
- teams rez at their rez shrine every 1 minute
- center altar if captured awards 3 points every 60 (30) seconds
- if scores are equal at the end of the match team holding the center wins
- if noone holds the center team with most capture points wins
- if noone holds center and teams have equal amount of points team who scored the last kill wins.

2) Replace Courtyard Kill Count with King of the Hill system

- ghostly hero is blockable only by a perfect body block, 1 man or 2 man blocks should be impossible. In order to fully block hero, he must be surrounded totally.
- each team has a rez shrine with a priest who rezzes fallen party members every 1min (ghostly hero also rezzes if killed)
- priest can be killed, thus preventing further team ressurection at the base shrine.
- capture point action takes 2 seconds with instant recharge (requires no energy)
- teams must capture the center altar with their ghostly hero to earn points
- every 30 seconds you get 1 point for holding the altar
- holding the altar for 2 minutes grants a morale bonus
- if scores are equal at the end of the game team holding the altar wins
- if noone holds the altar team with most points wins
- if noones holds altar and scores are all equal team with most kills wins
- if kill count is equal, last kill wins.

(kill counter needs to be present)

3) HOH

Capture points

(the map layout of HOH makes this mode not reach its full potential, like in alliance battles where the map is so large that it is easy to sneak around and capture various points without being seen. The HOH map just isnt right for capture points for that reason AND it does not have multiple routes to the points. So trying to achieve the alliance battle style capture point system just wont work.)

Instead i think it would be better to focus the capping around the central altar, which runs in line with the whole objective of winning the favour of the Gods. Each team will spawn with a point capped and then make its way to the center... they can all make the following decisions

i) try to hold the center altar
ii) try to split off and cap the surrounding altars

- surrounding shrines award 1 point every 30 seconds
- center shrine awards 2 points every 60 seconds (or 30)
- if scores are equal team holding center shrine wins
- if noone holds center, team with most shrines captured wins
- if teams have equal number of points, team with the most kills wins
- if kill count is the same, team with the last kill wins.

(kill counter needs to be present)

the biggest difference with this is that there will be increased attention to the center altar.

Murder Ball

- only problem with this map is situations where all teams have the equal scores and the outcome of the match is decided on who caps last. Which basically means the rest of the match is pointless if 3 decent teams are fighting. Only time when any team can clearly win by 2+ relics is if one or two of the teams in the fight have very little snares and are bad at body blocking and have no speedboosts. But fortunately most teams who reach HOH have these utilities.
- It is a fun and relaxing map to fight on until the last 1-20 seconds when it gets very hectic and panicky.
- not sure what can be done to prevent this rush.
- i think this mode is necessary, to add to the diversity in the HA map rotation.

King of the Hill

- i see nothing wrong with this map, people just need more practice on it on the most part. Interrupts are key to winning this. Letting monks die before 1min mark is also key to surviving longer, as is letting ghost die and rez...

final remarks

obviously if changes like these are implemented we would have to monitor how the meta evolves... and make adjustments accordingly....

making big mechanic changes without adjustments after their implementation is just not going to work and obviously has not in the past.

Demoon · May 04, 2007, 05:22 PM // 17:22

With the current meta as it is I really don't see Altar/Holding being a solution to the problem. However I still don't see Kill Count working out as a viable mechanic. The solution in my opinion would be something closer to what Lorekeeper has proposed. A sort of hybrid mechanic between the two, or using some of the mechanics from HoH and applying them to BT and Courtyard.

The only thing I have to mention is:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorekeeper

- priest can be killed, thus preventing further team ressurection at the base shrine.

This might create a highly competive gank type of gameplay on this map and result in adding a second NPC for the team to have to watch. If the Priest is to be so important in that type of play then either buff him or make the dependence on him rezzing the team go back to what HoH is normally.

If we do see altar cap coming back I'd like to see another roll out of skill balances heading towards Rits and potentially a few other spike skills. I HA'd for the first time in weeks last night and saw 1 balance team out of the mass of Spiritway's and spike teams that we fought.

Death_From_Above · May 04, 2007, 05:34 PM // 17:34

Replace kill count with alter holding *woooot.* Remove relic runs from HA and bring alter holding back there to. Nurf pargon armour so it = a backline monks armour because that stuff is seriously outta tune with the game. Get rid of song of concentration or change it, change cap time back to original 5 secs. Bring back scared earth and lastly listern to what your loyal player base say.

Just wanted to ask a quick question to, hopefull anet will look at this poll and take note but is it actually guaranteed they will? Or will they say erm we need to find out what others on the other forums like gwonline think?

Lykan · May 04, 2007, 07:12 PM // 19:12

Kill Count= Worst idea ever!

1st choice ~ Altar holding. Broken, Courtyard and HoH

2nd choice ~ (begrudgingly) randomise Tower and broken the same way and with the same objectives as HoH.

Dragonious · May 04, 2007, 08:31 PM // 20:31

Honestly, I love the new altar style holding per 30 seconds and think it should be in both of those maps. With HoH, you can't fully spec for holding so its fine now...even though 21-21-21 relic run in halls is retarded...

Killed u man · May 04, 2007, 10:19 PM // 22:19

Kill count fixed something that wasn't broken... It also removed any degen/pressure build, and life stealing doesn't count apparently... It's plain unfair: E-denial on monks, while other team 'steals" kills cuz monks don't have energy to heal, and other team gets the kill, and u get nothing, even tough u made sure monks had no nrgy...

Killcount = unfair => No matter how they mod it, it CAN'T calculate pressure/e-denial

tacitus · May 05, 2007, 12:17 AM // 00:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

Killcount = unfair => No matter how they mod it, it CAN'T calculate pressure/e-denial

agree 100%

I believe having changing the emphasis away from pure damage would encourage more diverse builds. Having teams able to run pressure/e-denial and other forms of shutdown would be a huge improvement. It would widen the scope of efficent builds like it was before. If a team chooses to run a fotm build they could, if they wanted to run a high damage build they could but they could also run something else knowing they have not gimped themselves on kill count maps.

I dont mind what they replace with even scarred earth in the old form would be an improvement on the current state of affairs.

Div · May 05, 2007, 04:58 AM // 04:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Mendes

As long as halls remains multiple objectives, I don't think altar holding on the earlier maps (courtyard, broken) should be an issue, and hopefully it won't lead to uber defensive builds.

I think uber defensive builds will be created for the sole reason of farming early fame before halls. Plus, even in halls they can still win relic runs (since it's basically up to chance) and have a decent chance at AB. It'll be equivalent to the 6 SF eles and 2 monk build for kill count. I'm not sure what's better anymore...

Metal Skin Slayer · May 05, 2007, 12:40 PM // 12:40

I'd say bring back holding on BT/Courtyard, keep HoH how it is except the relic run, it should get replaced by altar holding.

Make a 1v1 map (Scarred earth for example) and make THAT a killcount map so while facing an enemy which has many hardresses won't be a problem, because after 4-10 mins the team with the most kills wins (if equal -> team which made the last kill wins, if no one scored a point, length the time by 5 min, if still no one scored a point, both teams will lose) both teams have something like an res shrine where every fallen party member will get ressed every 30/60/90 sec

Also: please Anet, try to get rid of all the skips, it's more fun having a good fame run than winning halls for 3 fame and get a flame of Balthazar, so you will have to prove your skills to finally take place at the "final battle" =)

~Garth~

Gimme Money Plzkthx · May 05, 2007, 02:40 PM // 14:40

Revert to altar holding.

infymys · May 06, 2007, 01:14 AM // 01:14

Bring back Scarred Earth, no lever, first round is annihilation, second round between the two remaining teams is killcount.

King of the Hill in Broken Tower.

Altar Holding in Courtyard.

Keep HoH the same as it is currently.