Curse

Riotgear · Aug 07, 2007, 04:00 AM // 04:00

Expunge then? There's only a handful of direct counters, making it kind of a stupid ability to begin with, especially with DP, but the easiest tactic remains to just KILL THEM WHEN IT DROPS. Feigned is the only thing between their 53HP and faceplanting on the floor. You can cut through that with just a DW and an autoattack.

TGgold · Aug 07, 2007, 04:12 AM // 04:12

I think ritualists need a slight nerf, but not in many ways people here seem to present.

Spirit Rift should be a 2 second cast. Keep Damage output the same.

Wielder's Strike/Boon should have 60 unconditional damage/healing, and 50 conditional damage/healing.

Wielder's Boon should have a 3/4 cast time.

I think that if Ritspike is actually "killed" in the "balance" then...well..another gimmick will come. I'm feeling another bout of air-spike...is anybody with me?

Actually, it will probably com ein the form of Earth-Spike. Obsflame and the new GWEN skills will make for a really strong earth spike...plus a ton of defense and utility. (Earth has Blind, Weakness, KD, AL Ignoring Damage, Snares...and more...)

Really though, a lot of the skill sused in Ritspike keep PvE rits in the game still. And, personally, if a monk can't catch a spike signaled by a HUGE GLOWING ORB, maybe...you should get better monks? Rift is like Lightning Surge, but worse. LONG LIVE AIRSPIKE!

Anywho, I want to see Clamor of Souls finally buffed.

C2K · Aug 07, 2007, 05:07 AM // 05:07

Ancestor's Rage- should only damage attacking opponents or have its max lowered.

I don't think Spirit Rift needs a nerf. 3 seconds is alot of time to get away from it. If this spike is unpreventible, its probably the result of some of the skills on tha N/A that usually leads a ritspike team. Otherwise, people need to just be aware of that ball.

Riotgear · Aug 07, 2007, 05:45 AM // 05:45

The N/A spike has its own problems, largely stemming from the fact that Shadow Prison and Augury of Death are both broken abilities. Yet another reason to bump Prison's recharge up to 30 and/or do something about Deadly Paradox. DP is starting to seem like Mantra of Persistence all over again, with Feigned Neutrality being one of the first casualties.

Spirit Rift being 2 seconds isn't really going to fix anything, the problem is that it, like many abilities, was designed around being one thing (basically a differently-operating nuke, and not a very good one at that), and got turned into a spike ability because.... well, it does over 100 damage. It REALLY isn't that hard to keep someone in Adjacent range long for the not-too-huge portion of those 3 seconds where they'll actually notice the ball and try to move out of the way, and they can still have Icy Shackles or similar used to hold them anyway.

Dropping the damage would suffice, drop the recharge and energy cost with it so the PvEers can keep their toys, it's too gimmicky of a concept to work in PvP without being broken. Alternately, give it a damage bonus: Same or even higher damage against targets that are attacking or casting a spell, significantly lower if not. Also maintains PvE usefulness.

While I don't normally side with PvE players on things, Rift is a pretty important ability for that for a completely different reason, so it becomes a question of how to keep it good for that while addressing its questionable alternate use as a spikebomb.

Hitting Wielder's Strike, Spirit Burn and Ancestor's Rage might fix the problem itself without touching Rift. The first two need to either be 10/2/whatever to be more in line with every other direct-cast spike, Ancestor's Rage should just be shorter-recharge and less damage. It seems like a useful concept the same way AOE smiting used to be, problem is of course that it, like many other broken rit spells, deals a stupid amount of damage with easily-workable conditionality.

fripple · Aug 07, 2007, 06:37 AM // 06:37

I don't have a problem with increasing the energy of some of the rit nukes. However. If all their offensive spells are going to 10, ashes need to be adjusted so they don't strip you of the energy bonuses of your weapons, because otherwise it's impossible to use almost all of them in an offensive build without massively gimping yourself, and there are no ashes in the game that powerful (excepting MwV, which only gets excepted because it was specifically designed with this drawback in mind, and maybe Songkai, for the same reason but superior approach).

Complaining about rift is idiotic. If you're facing a bunch of rits and you get hit with a heavy-duty snare, chances are some glowy balls are going to come after it.

I think people need to keep in mind that reducing channeling to its pre-buff levels means, in no uncertain terms, that ritualists will disappear from PvP again. There is no debating this point; that's how it was post-spirit nerf, pre-other things buff, and restoration was quickly eclipsed by standard monking, leaving channeling as the primary justification for taking one into a fight. They still need to have a function in battle - and no, a pure weapon build is not going to cut it - that's almost the definition of passive casting since they overwrite each other and many have very specific, related-but-conflicting purposes.

Riotgear · Aug 07, 2007, 08:59 AM // 08:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by fripple

Complaining about rift is idiotic. If you're facing a bunch of rits and you get hit with a heavy-duty snare, chances are some glowy balls are going to come after it.

..... and Rend/Gaze/Expunge, and numerous copies of Wielder's Strike/Ancestor's Rage/Spirit Burn. It's a huge payload, even if predicted. The problem is just that, you can basically have your spike crew slam a target for two 100+ damage packets at the same time, and what was the mitigating factor (the fact that you can just walk out of it) is proving rather trivial to work around.

Quote:

I think people need to keep in mind that reducing channeling to its pre-buff levels means, in no uncertain terms, that ritualists will disappear from PvP again. There is no debating this point; that's how it was post-spirit nerf, pre-other things buff, and restoration was quickly eclipsed by standard monking, leaving channeling as the primary justification for taking one into a fight. They still need to have a function in battle - and no, a pure weapon build is not going to cut it - that's almost the definition of passive casting since they overwrite each other and many have very specific, related-but-conflicting purposes.

Taking out the trash is top priority. Balance changes are irrelevant if there are one or two lingering overpowered builds that trump everything else.

What rits really need is utility, but it appears to be a bit late for that. Channelling is overflowing with dumb DDs just like Restoration is overflowing with useless ashpots and dumb heals. Communing being viable produced a meta even less exciting than the aegis+hex+paragon garbage now.

But until they can figure out what they want to do with the class, ritspike seriously needs to die.

Master Ketsu · Aug 07, 2007, 05:04 PM // 17:04

spirit rift is anything but broken. Its easy to pre prot against, easy to escape, easy to see. Sure the spike is powerfull but its got plenty of counter strategies against it to balance it out.

Thats why serious teams carry an anti - fire and anti - lightning sheild offhands . If you get snared and see SH or SR or SF, Switch sets.

Anet shouldnt have to nerf things just because the counter isnt always obvious.

moko · Aug 07, 2007, 05:17 PM // 17:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Ketsu

spirit rift is anything but broken. Its easy to pre prot against, easy to escape, easy to see. Sure the spike is powerfull but its got plenty of counter strategies against it to balance it out.

Thats why serious teams carry an anti - fire and anti - lightning sheild offhands . If you get snared and see SH or SR or SF, Switch sets.

Anet shouldnt have to nerf things just because the counter isnt always obvious.

please, until you actually meet the N/A necros that -

a) snare
b) remove enchants
c) are under constant spellbreaker

stop posting trash, thank you.

i'm so sick of everyone saying you can kite or preprot SOOOOO EASILY against ri(f)tspike when you clearly can't because of the reasons stated above.

maybe if anet listened to players that actually played the game instead to those that just look at a single skill without realising that there's called a teambuild.

Keithark · Aug 07, 2007, 06:01 PM // 18:01

Closed deck in PvP FTW!!!!!

Div · Aug 07, 2007, 06:08 PM // 18:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mokone

a) snare
b) knock down
c) remove enchants 1/4 second before rift hits
d) are under constant spellbreaker

Fixed that for ya.

Neo-LD · Aug 07, 2007, 07:41 PM // 19:41

Quote:

a) snare
b) knock down
c) remove enchants 1/4 second before rift hits
d) are under constant spellbreaker

TBH, based on that description, if an opponent can execute an offense with that many moving gears, with that level of precision, I'd normally say they absolutely deserve the kills and everyone should stop whining. Normally.

The problem is that such an offense usually comes at the cost of defense, something that massed ritualists are clearly not in short supply of. Oops.

InfernalSuffering · Aug 07, 2007, 08:12 PM // 20:12

Here’s my “Wishlist" for 5 skills from each profession:

Ranger:
Melandru’s Arrows: Increase duration to 24 seconds.
Debilitating Shot: Decrease energy cost to 5.
Rampage As One: Change to "For 3…15 seconds, both you and your animal companion attack 33% faster." 15 – 0 – 10
Concussion Shot: Decrease energy cost to 15. Increase recharge to 30.
Crossfire: Change clause to “If you are near any of your allies, this attack cannot be blocked.”

Mesmer:
Blackout: For 2…5 seconds, all of target foe’s skills are disabled, and all of your skills are disabled for 5 seconds.
Complicate: Decrease recharge to 15 seconds.
Energy Surge: Change AoE to “all foes in the area”
Feedback: Decrease casting time to 1 second. Increase energy loss to 5…12.
Price of Pride: Decrease casting time to 1 second.

Elementalist:
Lightning Javelin: Decrease casting time to ¼.
Lightning Surge: Allow it to activate if removed prematurely.
Ward Against Melee: Decrease duration to 5…15.
Lava Arrows: Remove “half the normal range” clause.
Mirror of Ice: Change to “For 10 seconds, the next time an enemy spell would deal damage to target ally, that damage is negated, and that spells caster takes 10…70 damage.”

Necromancer:
Faintheartedness: Remove health degeneration. Increase casting time to 2 seconds. Decrease duration to 3…15.
Price of Failure: Increase energy cost to 15. Decrease duration to 8…18.
Reckless Haste: Increase recharge to 30 seconds.
Ravenous Gaze: Change to: “Steal 15…27 health from target foe. If target foe’s health is below 50%, steal an additional 15…75 health.”
Mark of Subversion: Decrease recharge time to 15 seconds.

Ritualist:
Ancestors Rage: Increase AoE to “nearby”. Increase recharge to 30 seconds.
Spirit Burn: Change to “Target foe is struck for 15...51 lightning damage. If you are adjacent to a spirit, Spirit Burn deals +15...39 damage.”
Wielder’s Strike: Change conditional to “If you are under the effects of a weapon spell, you deal an additional 15…51 lightning damage and your weapon spell ends.”
Brutal Weapon: Increase duration to 15…45. Move to Channeling.
Ghostly Haste: Increase duration to 15…45.

Paragon:
“The Power Is Yours!”: Change to “For 10 seconds, you have -10 Energy degeneration.
After 10 seconds all party members within earshot gain 3…15 Energy.”
Leader’s Zeal: Remove maximum. Change energy gain to 1.
Disrupting Spear: Remove condition requirement. Increase recharge to 15 seconds.
Swift Javelin: Decrease recharge to 4 seconds.
“Go for the Eyes!”: Increase adrenaline cost to 6.

Warrior:
Triple Chop: Add clause “These attacks cannot be blocked”
Fierce Blow: Increase conditional damage to 15…40.
Warrior’s Cunning: Decrease energy cost to 5. Decrease recharge to 30 seconds.
Steady Stance: Change to “For 10 seconds, the next time you are knocked down, you gain 1...3 strikes of adrenaline and 1...6 Energy.” (not much of a steady stance but this needs to die)
Soldier’s Defense: Change to “For 1...7 seconds, you have a 75% chance to block attacks while under the effects of an Echo.”

Dervish:
Mystic Regeneration: Add “Lose all enchantments clause” to beginning.
Imbue Health: Increase recharge to 20 seconds.
Wearying Strike: Increase recharge to 12 seconds.
Rending Touch: Change to “Target touched foe loses 1 enchantment”
Lyssa’s Assault: Decrease energy cost to 5.

Assassin:
Blades of Steel: Increase energy cost to 10.
Deadly Paradox: Change to “For 5...13 seconds, your Assassin Attack Skills recharge 50% faster. When this stance ends, all of your non-attack Skills are disabled for 10 seconds.”
Impale: Increase casting time to 1 second.
Shadow Form: Change “and all attacks against you miss” to “and all attacks against you are blocked”
Signet of Malice: Change to “You lose 1 condition. You lose an additional condition for each condition suffered by target foe.”

Monk:
Guardian: Decrease casting time to ¼ second.
Extinguish: Decrease recharge time to 6 seconds.
Life Sheath: Decrease casting time to ¼ second.
Empathetic Removal: Change to “You and target ally lose 1 condition and 1 hex.”
Resurrect: Change “zero energy” to “25% energy”

I Mean I · Aug 07, 2007, 08:32 PM // 20:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom Bangalter

ward against melee: 25 second recharge

I dont see why ward need to be nerfed.Its perfectly fine 1 second casting time can be interrupted really easy by a mesmer or by a semi-decent ranger ward strict players movement you can punish them with a well placed searing heat.

I agree with all in general.Remove heroes completely from HA and Gvg nerf rit spike nerf hexes fix aegis nerf SS and Fear Me and when you done with them take a look at the MoR mesmers too.Seriously Diversion spam 24/7 is not smart play.

Master Ketsu · Aug 07, 2007, 08:58 PM // 20:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mokone

please, until you actually meet the N/A necros that -

a) snare
b) remove enchants
c) are under constant spellbreaker

stop posting trash, thank you.

i'm so sick of everyone saying you can kite or preprot SOOOOO EASILY against ri(f)tspike when you clearly can't because of the reasons stated above.

maybe if anet listened to players that actually played the game instead to those that just look at a single skill without realising that there's called a teambuild.

If you watch the N/A you can. If you watch any team and try to actively taken ote of how their strategizing, its not much of a problem. Most skills are the same, its how you play them.

Dont assume just because your having problems with So and So build/skill that it must be broken and everyone who doesnt agree with you hasnt played against that build.

Theirs a reason Anet doesnt answer to certain skill changes that everyone complains about.

C2K · Aug 07, 2007, 09:13 PM // 21:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mokone

please, until you actually meet the N/A necros that -

a) snare
b) remove enchants
c) are under constant spellbreaker

stop posting trash, thank you.

i'm so sick of everyone saying you can kite or preprot SOOOOO EASILY against ri(f)tspike when you clearly can't because of the reasons stated above.

maybe if anet listened to players that actually played the game instead to those that just look at a single skill without realising that there's called a teambuild.

But its not Spirit Rift that is doing all of that, nor the rits themselves. Its the N/A in that build. Spirit Rift is one of the easiest nukes to handle in the game, however, that N/A build is what makes it work. Perhaps instead of saying "Spirit Rift is broken", look at the skills in the N/A build as well.

Enix · Aug 07, 2007, 09:36 PM // 21:36

My requests:
Mesmer - I would still like Fast Casting to be made better than worthless (decrease energy cost and recharge time by 3%/rank in FC). Give mesmers AoE degen hexes? Mesmers remain pretty pathetic in PvE and cannot replace any one of the trinity without fixing FC or giving them stronger AoE. Even the new Mesmer PvE only skills are pretty weak and require insane amounts of grind.

Ele - Decrease hex duration, decrease recharge time of water magic AoE spells for more spamability. Take Exhaustion away from chain lightning - serioulsy, who spikes with CL anymore? It is 1 of 2 AoE damage Air skills, and barely AoE at that. Wouldn't changing some ele skills in encorage diversity be nice?

Those are the only fixes that would impact my oppinion on gameplay.

Div · Aug 07, 2007, 09:37 PM // 21:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Ketsu

If you watch the N/A you can. If you watch any team and try to actively taken ote of how their strategizing, its not much of a problem. Most skills are the same, its how you play them.

Dont assume just because your having problems with So and So build/skill that it must be broken and everyone who doesnt agree with you hasnt played against that build.

Theirs a reason Anet doesnt answer to certain skill changes that everyone complains about.

I've probably only lost once or twice to that n/a rift spike crap, but that doesn't mean it's not overpowered. It just means we had to modify our builds (thus build wars) to account for those lame spikes so that we would have less trouble with it. Once you have to add in specific skills to deal with certain builds, you know the game is no longer guild wars but build wars, and it's not fun to play. Plus, even with our counters we still took deaths, but we were able to outpressure them before they full-wiped us. And when it takes that much effort for a very experienced r9/12+ friends group to beat some random r4+ pug, that shows how broken the build is.

The biggest problem with that build is that there is no easy generic counter. Spirit bond will most likely get stripped before rift hits. Moving out is out of the question. Any infuse attempts are futile unless they fail at spiking, even if you disrupt one or two of their spikers. You see who's getting spiked, but you can't prot the target well, you can't disrupt their necro, and you can't infuse. That's how bad it is, and they have so much defense that you need an extremely powerful and well-coordinated offense to outpressure them.

Seamus Finn · Aug 07, 2007, 10:30 PM // 22:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

. Spirit bond will most likely get stripped before rift hits.

Still confused about this. Most likely = once every thirty seconds? And furthermore, since when has halls not been build wars? I am not defending the build, I could care less about it. But it hasn't impressed me when I had to monk against it, and I don't consider myself an amazing monk either.

EDIT: for InfernalSuffering:

Some of those monk changes are hilariously imbalanced. Guardian on 1/4 sec? There is currenlty an elite that basically does that at 10 energy and gvgers are complaining. So lets make it half cost and non elite?

Also, empathic already does what I believe you are suggesting it should do.

TheOneMephisto · Aug 08, 2007, 01:30 AM // 01:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Mean I

I dont see why ward need to be nerfed.Its perfectly fine 1 second casting time can be interrupted really easy by a mesmer or by a semi-decent ranger ward strict players movement you can punish them with a well placed searing heat.

Trying to nail a 1/4 or 1/2 sec reaction when you're also perma-blinded or hexed to hell, through Aegis and prots, and at the same time having to interrupt those blinds and hexes and aegis and keeping pressure on the monks?

The ward does need to be nerfed a little. I like the idea of not being able to keep it up constantly.

InfernalSuffering · Aug 08, 2007, 01:34 AM // 01:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seamus Finn

Some of those monk changes are hilariously imbalanced. Guardian on 1/4 sec? There is currenlty an elite that basically does that at 10 energy and gvgers are complaining. So lets make it half cost and non elite?

Also, empathic already does what I believe you are suggesting it should do.

Not only does the change to warrior's cunning makes this much less of a problem. But SoD gives you armor and its block is 75% as opposed to less than 50%. You would probably have to up the recharge but its still not that bad seeing as the blocking aspect is already the same as right now.

Empathetic Removal currently requires you to target other ally. Limits it a lot.