Curse

Plague · Jul 03, 2007, 04:35 PM // 16:35

I'll also point out that most of my RA matches only last 1-3 minutes before a winner is determined. Matches over 5 minutes are very rare.

Leavers typically abandon a team before the match begins, or as it begins. Others will leave before they're killed, so as to keep their opponent from getting credit for a kill. (Truthfully, I do this sometimes when I feel like my opponent hasn't earned the kill, when I'm simply outmanned, or they have a ridiculous build and I'm low on health, etc.) People also leave directly after a team wipe to save a few seconds, so they don't have to wait for the timer to count all the way down to be sent back to RA.

Keep all those things in mind.

Any system will only hurt people. It's not going to help.

The problem isn't in determining how to punish people for leaving, but to determine why they leave. The answer is pretty simple: gladiator title tracks, or because they don't like the team setup they're on. You can do something about the title, but some people will simply not play unless they're on a team with a Rit and a monk. And you can't punish them for that because you can never tell WHY someone is leaving. If you get three bonders on one team, of COURSE someone will want to leave. They should. You can't globally punish leavers. It's unacceptable.

savage vapor 33 · Jul 03, 2007, 05:34 PM // 17:34

Leave as is or get rid of RA imo. It causes more problems rather than helps people. If your so keen on fighting, just go to isle of nameless and try and kill those NPC's, they wont leave.

/notsigned on temp band.

Too many what if's for something very effective to actually come out of it.

deluxe · Jul 03, 2007, 06:53 PM // 18:53

I am mainly playing monk, I quit when I see a second monk in my team.
I dont like going on and on surviving but not killing anything either..
Playing with 2 monks in RA takes the fun out of monking.
Also on different classes, I dont see the use of staying when there is no source of healing,
as it's 90% sure you will not get a winning streak.

Lord Natural · Jul 03, 2007, 07:20 PM // 19:20

Leaver penalty is a terrible idea. Why should I be forced to play with the completely inept, or stay (against) a runner or griefer? If I roll into a match and there's a mending bonder, there's just no point in me staying. The team has no shot at a glad point, and is basically playing 3v4 anyway. What possible reason would there be to stay, under those circumstances? Like it or not, the gladiator title track exists, and is the goal of many (most?) RA players.

The obvious counter-argument is, it's called random arena for a reason. Fair enough, the enter battle button does not distinguish experienced players from inexperienced players. But until TA is given some attention from the devs, with additional rewards, random arena will always be the easiest place to casually pursue gladiator titles. Sure, an experienced group of pvpers can win in TA until they get bored of it, but who has that many guildies/friends who share the same goal for a pointless arena? For that matter, who even has 4 active friends/guildies who play still play this dying game?

Enforcing a leaver penalty would just drive away the few skilled players left in RA. However, given anet's penchant for alienating its pvp community, I expect a leaver penalty to be implimented at their earliest possible convenience.

Shendaar · Jul 03, 2007, 07:29 PM // 19:29

People leave because of the glad points. Most RAer are after glad points and when you need to win 10 in a row ... you don't want to waste your time with monkless groups that are likely to fail on their first match.

The Real Avalon · Jul 03, 2007, 07:34 PM // 19:34

Just enjoyed the newest RA sensation: Suiciders
A small army of about 5 105 HP mesmers with Illusion Of Weakness, do you deserve a penalty from leaving someone like that?
I think not, this thread is imo plain stupid, there are way too much exceptions, loopholes & little rules to ever make this work, it'll stay like this because random is never totally random, people choose with who they want to play and if you don't "suit" them, tough luck, they'll quit.

Greetins'

Series · Jul 03, 2007, 07:38 PM // 19:38

Maybe make a new thing... RA VIP Service... for 500-1000 balthazar faction, you can enter RA with... well, other people who spent faction. I doubt people will be as willing to leave/run dumb builds when faction is on the line. Also, on a VIP Service team, they can get double faction or so to compensate for the cost (so that winning a couple matches makes them break out even).

Patrick Smit · Jul 03, 2007, 08:40 PM // 20:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by glountz

The Unplug argument is a fallacious one.
Actually, A-Net servers recognize a leaving from a disconnect.
Simple as that, when people leave, the message is : "Noob RA leaver [Scrub] has left the game."
When people have a disconnect, the message is :"Unfortunate player [56k] has lost communication with the server".
So A-Net is perfectly able to make the difference between a leaver and a DC.
Additionally, Anet very good system allows you to reconnect to a battle.
Any disconnected people who doesn't atempt to reconnect to a battle should be considered as a leaver, to avoid false disconnect leavers.

As a side note you could also say that people have legitimate reasons to leave. However when they have, they generally don't reconnect for the time punishment proposed here.
And also, 80% of current leavers are not legitimate. There is a simple experiment you can conduct yourself: everytime a leaver leave, put his name in the friend list. If he is still conected, then he is a leaver, as he is still playing GW whereas he quitted, dooming his teamates'fun. If not, then he had something else to do. You'll see that most (if not all) leavers are ragequitters, and absolutely not legitimate.

If u unplug the cable u will cause a disconnect, and not issue a regular leave message.

MrFuzzles · Jul 04, 2007, 09:16 AM // 09:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Natural

If I roll into a match and there's a mending bonder, there's just no point in me staying. The team has no shot at a glad point, and is basically playing 3v4 anyway. What possible reason would there be to stay, under those circumstances? Like it or not, the gladiator title track exists, and is the goal of many (most?) RA players.

This saddens me vastly

I've played RA since beta. I couldn't care less about titles. It's really depressing to see that so many people grind RA just to farm titles. I wish it was like the good ol' days where people played RA to pvp for fun.

Hodor · Jul 04, 2007, 11:57 AM // 11:57

Intentional droppers are gimps. It's called Random Arena. Random. Whinning about having your time wasted, but quite happy to waste others time. Use some brain power and try to win anyway, despite the ever optimistic Necro casting Death Nova on everyone.

Shendaar · Jul 04, 2007, 12:18 PM // 12:18

Actually, by leaving you are also saving their time as they will have to rejoin and possibly get a better group that will actually have a chance to accomplish something. If its good for me, its also good for them.

I'm not responsible for the retards that are content with losing and spamming 4v1 LoL NoOb.

Hodor · Jul 04, 2007, 01:31 PM // 13:31

You can rationalise your self centred pov till the cows come home. Random has a very specific meaning.

Navaros · Jul 04, 2007, 01:49 PM // 13:49

The POV that "You must stay and play to the end of the match with everyone no matter what in RA" is every bit as self-centered as the the alternative POV that says the opposite.

Part of the meaning of random is that you don't know what your allies are going to do, including if they are going to leave if they feel like it, which is a component of the definition of "random".

Shendaar · Jul 04, 2007, 01:51 PM // 13:51

Its still random when I leave and enter again. There is no rules preventing me to re-draw, just like some card games.

If you like to lose the long way its your own problem ... I just take the shortcut and save myself the trouble.

Sarevok Thordin · Jul 04, 2007, 02:04 PM // 14:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Navaros

The POV that "You must stay and play to the end of the match with everyone no matter what in RA" is every bit as self-centered as the the alternative POV that says the opposite.

Part of the meaning of random is that you don't know what your allies are going to do, including if they are going to leave if they feel like it, which is a component of the definition of "random".

The problem is the randomness is heavily influenced by Glad Points.

If a team isn't up to the standards of someone trying to skip the organized TA and get points the "easy" way, they'll just bugger off and try again leaving the others without a teammate..

MrFuzzles · Jul 04, 2007, 02:09 PM // 14:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shendaar

Its still random when I leave and enter again.

I still don't subscribe to the "it's random and that includes 1v4's" notion. That's like me joining teams in TA and leaving, and going "well it's team arena, it's still team vs team. It's your problem if you don't like it".

When I join RA, I want to play a match of 4 random players versus 4 random players. People leaving systematically if there is not a monk on their team is not random. People leaving repeatedly if there is a mending wamo on their team is not random. People leaving consecutively until they end up in a team with their friend is not random.

I'd much rather lose a 4v4 with a mending wamo on my team than lose a 3v4 because one member decided there is no point in playing if he can't win.

You might get a ranger with 6 traps on your team, but so might your opponent. When you enter the random arena, you accept that your team will be random. If you want a "pro" or "skilled" team or whatever you kids call it these days, you go to team arena and form or join one.

Why is the gladiator title so important anyway? Why do people defend their right to be leavers so religiously just because they feel there is no point in playing if they can't earn the title?

Shendaar · Jul 04, 2007, 02:09 PM // 14:09

They would have lost anyway ...

thor hammerbane · Jul 04, 2007, 02:12 PM // 14:12

/signed
I am frustrated by this phenomenon as well. I have been doing alot of random arenas to test new builds and to simply farm faction, but I've realized that It is getting more difficult with the population of quitters. The two most annoying kinds of quitters..these get to me the most.

1. Before the timer, the person in question sees that his party doesn't have a monk or a healer, so he/she quits. It's random arenas, If your build needs a monk to be effective, I suggest you get a new build.

2. That person is the first person to die, and simply ragequits because he/she got owned. This is compounded when I managed to get my rez signet off, but he/she quits right after.

I think the penalties should have levels though. For the first 10 times or so you quit, You are banned for 5 minutes from the arenas. The next 10 times after that, maybe 8 minutes. So the more you quit, the worse it gets.

Navaros · Jul 04, 2007, 02:39 PM // 14:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarevok Thordin

The problem is the randomness is heavily influenced by Glad Points.

If a team isn't up to the standards of someone trying to skip the organized TA and get points the "easy" way, they'll just bugger off and try again leaving the others without a teammate..

That's not really a problem. Those people are going to RA for a different reason than the people who are hellbent on "Losing pointless matches in RA the long way - but with 3 other allies which makes losing suddenly become fun (?!) - no matter what".

So what if they leave someone without a team mate. That team was gonna lose anyways, so what's the difference? 25 faction points maybe? Who cares?

People with different motivations being teamed together randomly, and then not working together propely when done so, is the epitome of random.

The Glad point seekers who go into RA could make the argument that the bad players, the players with crappy equipment and crappy skillbars who do not know how to play the game yet go into RA and handicap their team anyways, are wasting their - the good players' seeking glad points in RA - time.

Getting Glad points in RA isn't "easy". Even with a good team mixture and with allies who know what they are doing, you are bound to come up vs. a synced team or two opposing you in RA long before you get to 10 wins. Often on Vent, and they have to be overcome with great skill in order to get Glad points from RA.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrFuzzles

Why is the gladiator title so important anyway? Why do people defend their right to be leavers so religiously just because they feel there is no point in playing if they can't earn the title?

Because there really is no point whatsoever to RA other than getting Glad points.

I wonder why so many so religiously defend their right to have other players who do not want to play with them, play with them anyways against their will

Shendaar · Jul 04, 2007, 02:46 PM // 14:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by thor hammerbane

/signed
I am frustrated by this phenomenon as well. I have been doing alot of random arenas to test new builds and to simply farm faction, but I've realized that It is getting more difficult with the population of quitters. The two most annoying kinds of quitters..these get to me the most.

1. Before the timer, the person in question sees that his party doesn't have a monk or a healer, so he/she quits. It's random arenas, If your build needs a monk to be effective, I suggest you get a new build.

The build is barely relevant. Unless you have a very strong team with tons of shutdown or have a good rit, you have literally no chance of getting a glad point. Beside, how the hell do you test the effectiveness of a build without some proper healing support? Do you solo often in GW(farming aside)??? I only RA in my spare time and I do it get glad points and a bit of fun like many others. There is no way I would get a glad point with no monk and most likely at least one retard that you know will suck just by his choice of profession(almost every x/R player).