Curse

Tactical-Dillusions · Jul 03, 2007, 01:30 AM // 01:30

Leave a game, lose a skill.

"Skill locked - < random skill >"

Tahlia Tane · Jul 03, 2007, 01:48 AM // 01:48

You people are too harsh with the measures on how to 'fix' the issue of players leaving prematurely. I've had this problem plenty of times, and it's a pain! It definately ruins Random Arenas... I don't remember it being this worse.

So back to the suggestions on how to prevent people from leaving. I think bans are not the solution. Ideally, it should work like this, a very simple measure:

If you leave a match in Random Arenas before the timer hits 1:00, you will not be able to enter a battle in Random Arenas for 5 minutes.

This way you could make sure no person leaves a match prematurely for at least one minute. Some battles can end up in a stalemate or some battles will last forever, based on the type of teams (for example, two teams consisting of four monks, I've seen it happen). So I think you shouldn't do this too harsh. No matter what measures you want here, the people that enjoy the arenas in a fun, fair way shouldn't be victimized.

As for resigning... I think resigning before the battle has even started should be punished too. So I think the 1:00 rule should apply to resigning as well. The measure could be:

If you leave or resign from a match in Random Arenas before the timer hits 1:00, you will not be able to enter a battle in Random Arenas for 5 minutes.

Or if you want to be a little more strict:

If you leave or resign from a match in Random Arenas before the timer hits 2:00, you will not be able to enter a battle in Random Arenas for 5 minutes.

A little more lenient:

If you leave or resign from a match in Random Arenas before the timer hits 0:30, you will not be able to enter a battle in Random Arenas for 2 minutes.

I think the first one is pretty good. Now comes the question of how easy or difficult it is to implement such measures. I'm hoping it's easy to program this for the PvP arenas.

All I know is, and what I can say for certain, is that these 'leavers' ruin the fun in Random Arenas. I gotta say I want to farm Gladiator points too, but when I'm in a team I don't think I'm gonna get any points or anything, I still want to try and kick some ass.

Navaros · Jul 03, 2007, 03:43 AM // 03:43

Leaving in RA is not a problem. If Anet wanted people to fight hopeless battles then they better take out all the "Victory or Death" timers and the /resign function from the game - which seem to exist because Anet does not want to force people to fight in hopeless battles.

Those who have a desire to play in RA no matter how incomptent his allies are or how bad the class mixture of his team is do not have a monopoly on "How RA should be". Many players disagree with the idea that RA should be only for people who agree with that philosophy therefore RA should not be changed to pander to that one segment of RA players.

Lotrfish · Jul 03, 2007, 04:04 AM // 04:04

Quote:

First, there are already at least one or two RECENT threads with this idea, but as the search sucks, I can see starting a new thread.
Also, you posted this thread multiple times - try not doing that again.

A better overall setup than "10-20 minutes" would be something along the lines of:

Leave before match has begun (during timer) - 15 minute temp-ban
Leave within the first 5 minutes of the match - 10 minute temp-ban
Leave between the 5 minute and 20 minute mark - 5 minute temp-ban

Resign incurs no penalty.
Leaving after 20 minutes incurs no penalty.
Second person on a team to leave receives 75% penalty.
Third and fourth leavers incur no penalty.

Time frames can be adjusted to fit better, but this setup would allow for minimal/no penalty for greatly extended games, and leaving if half your team has already left. Also, resigning incurs no penalty in case your team has a poor setup (4 monks).

I think this is a perfect solution. If you are on a bad team, just wait until the end and leave inbetween. That way if you are on a terrible team you just have to stick it with them through one fight then leave when it is over, ~1-5 minute match is not going to kill you. And that team will still gt a replacement player, so they can continue on.

Also, if you are dead for more than 3 minutes you should be able to leave with no penalty, in case your team has no rez and there's still people fighting it out and you don't want to wait, but not letting people leave immediately after they die. If you have a bad team set-up, like 4 monks, just /resign, wait the 20 minutes, or let yourself die and wait 3 minutes.

Disconnects could also be absence from penalty, but if you are prone to lots of disconnects, you really need a better internet connection or stop playing with other people. I absolutely can't stand having disconnectors on my team, they ruin it for your team as bad as leavers. If it only happens rarely, then a 20 minute ban isn't going to kill you, and half of it will already be over by the time you recconnect. Plus, your character stays in the game for 10 minutes when you disconnect, so it will only give you third penalty of 5 minutes. People pulling the plug to get no ban for ragequitting will take a lot longer than just playing the match and leaving when it is over.

Something really needs to be done, but I don't think removing glad points will do it. I think they should stay in as give something to look forward to and as a nice goal and motivation to try your best. This idea should solve the problem without angering anyone (besides leavers). Just to clarify, this shoudl be a ban only from RA, not from the game, so you can just go do soemthing else for a few minutes. If you really do have to leave for real-life reasons, you most likely won't be back until long past 20 minutes.

DreamWind · Jul 03, 2007, 05:25 AM // 05:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

That's like saying if there's a problem with Guild Wars, then don't play it. Bad logic.

Um...actually that is really good logic. lol

Removing glad points isn't going to do anything but make RA less popular. I think it got "somewhat" more competitive than it used to be...it also gives many people a reason to play, even if it is to farm a bad title.

I think this problem is exagerrated. Besides...I play monk and I never have the leaver problem.

semantic · Jul 03, 2007, 06:27 AM // 06:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tactical-Dillusions

Leave a game, lose a skill.

"Skill locked - < random skill >"

ROFL God, yes. Please implement. Expand it to anything unlocked with Balth faction, with a % chance to hit a gold item/rune or elite skill.

Leavers suck. Without exception.

Or the timeout would be nice I guess.

garethporlest18 · Jul 03, 2007, 06:53 AM // 06:53

I've been RAing a lot lately, not for glad points though, just because it's fun. I've gotten leavers because there were no monks on our team yeah. But it seems most people only play RA for a glad point.

I think it'd be kinda funny if anet did something, like remove glad points from RA or sommat, cause the people who leave groups would leave, and if RA doesn't get played anymore that's no sweat off my shoulders either haha.

It's always fun to be in a win win situation eh?

Anyways, I've gotten horrible people on my team, I don't say anything though, I don't make fun of them. We'll just lose and then I restart. I've also versed many horrible teams, such as yesterday when I got 22 wins in a row.

Since I don't go into RA for any other reason than to have fun, I'll play with crappy builds, and if I get leavers on my team I just restart. No matter to me, but I won't change my crappy build and I hope just to upset the person that leaves, that he gets placed on my team consecutively.

Buster · Jul 03, 2007, 07:25 AM // 07:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roshi_ikkyu

please read...

Your right if your problem is you want to force people to play in a randomly selected area when they decided they don't, then yes you shouldn't play GW.

My logic wasn't even related to if there's a problem with Guild Wars, then don't play it. My logic was related to if you can't stand people leaving in a random PvP arena don't play there. Use the other more definable areas like TA.

I'm too tired to pick at the fallacies of your statement, so that will be my response tonight.

You don't join groups just to leave. That is not how the game is played.
It is simple, if you plan on leaving groups everytime you join RA then don't join RA, do it elsewhere.

Yeah other areas are more organized PVP but everybody who plays RA should deserve a full team and the opportunity to earn glad points. Why should people abuse RA just because it is not as organized as TA ?

Surena · Jul 03, 2007, 07:26 AM // 07:26

All these suggested changes and fixes won't help or punish the wrong.

Easy fix:

Remove Gladiator points from RA.

MrFuzzles · Jul 03, 2007, 07:30 AM // 07:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divinus Stella

usually when im playing monk, i just instantly leave teams with bad players (bad primary/secondary combo, non english name)

Woah woah. I'm european, and I usually run a pure ranger build so I don't even know what my secondary is set to sometimes. No wonder I get so many leavers.

Tell me though, what *is* a bad primary/secondary combo? How do you know their combo sucks unless you ask everyone to ping their skillbar every time a match starts?

Leavers is my biggest pet peeve about GW. I play GW *because* it's something I can boot up, play for 30 minutes, leave, and still have fun with it. It's infuriating when I spend those full 30 minutes fighting 3v4's (or 1v4's for that matter, considering half the people will leave if one leaves) just because I'm not wearing obsidian or because I'm a protmonk.

RA definately needs to lose titles. Gladiator says absolutely nothing about your "skill", it's only an indicator of how patient and persistent you are in grinding RA. A win/loss ratio (where leaving counts as a loss) would be a better indicator.

Nevin · Jul 03, 2007, 07:45 AM // 07:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muspellsheimr

First, there are already at least one or two RECENT threads with this idea, but as the search sucks, I can see starting a new thread.
Also, you posted this thread multiple times - try not doing that again.

A better overall setup than "10-20 minutes" would be something along the lines of:

Leave before match has begun (during timer) - 15 minute temp-ban
Leave within the first 5 minutes of the match - 10 minute temp-ban
Leave between the 5 minute and 20 minute mark - 5 minute temp-ban

Resign incurs no penalty.
Leaving after 20 minutes incurs no penalty.
Second person on a team to leave receives 75% penalty.
Third and fourth leavers incur no penalty.

Time frames can be adjusted to fit better, but this setup would allow for minimal/no penalty for greatly extended games, and leaving if half your team has already left. Also, resigning incurs no penalty in case your team has a poor setup (4 monks).

Fantastic idea.

Shuuda · Jul 03, 2007, 08:01 AM // 08:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by semantic

Leavers suck. Without exception.

So, lets say I'm on the Kill count map, and my whole team leave, if I was to leave due to the fact I don't want to waste everyone's time, would I suck?

Your attitude is the kind I really dislike, you have no grey areas at all.

The only leavers that are a major problem are the ones who always want a monk on their team, or Sync'ers, so only the 1st leaver should suffer a punishment. Once he leaves, the match becomes unfair and people shouldn't be made to fight that way.

Roshi_ikkyu · Jul 03, 2007, 11:35 AM // 11:35

Quote:

First, there are already at least one or two RECENT threads with this idea, but as the search sucks, I can see starting a new thread.
Also, you posted this thread multiple times - try not doing that again.

A better overall setup than "10-20 minutes" would be something along the lines of:

Leave before match has begun (during timer) - 15 minute temp-ban
Leave within the first 5 minutes of the match - 10 minute temp-ban
Leave between the 5 minute and 20 minute mark - 5 minute temp-ban

Resign incurs no penalty.
Leaving after 20 minutes incurs no penalty.
Second person on a team to leave receives 75% penalty.
Third and fourth leavers incur no penalty.

Time frames can be adjusted to fit better, but this setup would allow for minimal/no penalty for greatly extended games, and leaving if half your team has already left. Also, resigning incurs no penalty in case your team has a poor setup (4 monks).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevin

Fantastic idea.

Better idea, remove glad points from RA and replace it with something that would be embraced by people playing, like extra faction or kill points.

Take away the temptation to leave and increase the rewards for playing.

Patrick Smit · Jul 03, 2007, 11:48 AM // 11:48

indeed all the time related anti leave bans are no good, a fight should last no longer then 3-5 minutes. Faction i don't want, I'm filled up already, gold would be welcome, or other things we can use, unlock for equipments skins, etc.

Maybe the best thing indeed to fight leaving is to kill glad points in RA, no point in farming then. Teams will be revitalized

Muspellsheimr · Jul 03, 2007, 12:44 PM // 12:44

I revised my original setup a little based on feedback.

First, as some people seem to have misunderstood some of what I said, I will be a bit more specific.
Temp-ban means you cannot enter Random Arena's for xx period of time.
Disconnects do not count as leaving.

Leave before match has begun (during timer) - 15 minute temp-ban
Leave within the first 5 minutes of the match - 10 minute temp-ban
Leave between the 5 minute and 20 minute mark - 5 minute temp-ban

Resign incurs no penalty.
Leaving after 20 minutes incurs no penalty.
Second person on a team to leave receives 75% penalty.
Third and fourth leavers incur no penalty.
If you have been dead for over a minute, leaving incurs no penalty.
Leaving after a match has ended incurs no penalty.

Once again - the times can be adjusted to work better, as needed.

The problem with removing Gladiator Points from Random Arena's, aside from the seemingly obvious (large drop in RA players, ect.), would be that it is the "simple solution", which never seems to work as intended, and cause far to many new problems.

Patrick Smit · Jul 03, 2007, 01:35 PM // 13:35

Thew simply make a DC and will not get a penalty at all, because who is to blame when a DC occurs? You cant punish a user over a bad ISP, or maybe even ANet's mistake. The system of punishing leaving doesn't work.

Plague · Jul 03, 2007, 03:15 PM // 15:15

I don't think Glad Points should be removed. They're there to give RAers some feeling of accomplishment.

I do think that TA should have its own title, though. TA is pretty stagnant these days. It would be nice if the TA title did something as well, to give an extra incentive towards getting it. Perhaps a max title gives an extra 1 balthazar faction per kill and win in TA, or something. (Fairly insignificant, but still fun.)

Cass · Jul 03, 2007, 04:04 PM // 16:04

Dumb idea.

Sure, leaving can be taken too far, like when people sync for an unfair advantage over true random teams, or when someone just leaves to cause grief.

But most leaving that I observe in RA is quite OK: they save everyone some time. There really is no point in slogging it out in each and every hopeless team time and again. The #1 issue here: you will lose without any form of healing on board.

Funny thing here. You may not get any healer for 6-8 teams in a row, but the majority of teams you face will have a healer. Why? Because teams with healers win and therefore continue playing and facing other teams. Losing teams, like your own; they go back to the beach.

So either it takes 2 minutes in a hopeless fight, or it takes 15 seconds when people leave and you can too. Why do people insist on playing hopeless battles of this kind? You can just enter again and "mess about".

A similar thing can be said about teams with 2 bonders and a healing/spirit rit etc. I actually dislike them for NOT leaving.

glountz · Jul 03, 2007, 04:08 PM // 16:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick Smit

Thew simply make a DC and will not get a penalty at all, because who is to blame when a DC occurs? You cant punish a user over a bad ISP, or maybe even ANet's mistake. The system of punishing leaving doesn't work.

The Unplug argument is a fallacious one.
Actually, A-Net servers recognize a leaving from a disconnect.
Simple as that, when people leave, the message is : "Noob RA leaver [Scrub] has left the game."
When people have a disconnect, the message is :"Unfortunate player [56k] has lost communication with the server".
So A-Net is perfectly able to make the difference between a leaver and a DC.
Additionally, Anet very good system allows you to reconnect to a battle.
Any disconnected people who doesn't atempt to reconnect to a battle should be considered as a leaver, to avoid false disconnect leavers.

As a side note you could also say that people have legitimate reasons to leave. However when they have, they generally don't reconnect for the time punishment proposed here.
And also, 80% of current leavers are not legitimate. There is a simple experiment you can conduct yourself: everytime a leaver leave, put his name in the friend list. If he is still conected, then he is a leaver, as he is still playing GW whereas he quitted, dooming his teamates'fun. If not, then he had something else to do. You'll see that most (if not all) leavers are ragequitters, and absolutely not legitimate.

Bryant Again · Jul 03, 2007, 04:11 PM // 16:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

Um...actually that is really good logic. lol

I'll agree that it is a pretty good reason if it was like the from the start. I just don't remember ever having this many leavers before in my RA matches after titles were implemented.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roshi_ikkyu

Better idea, remove glad points from RA and replace it with something that would be embraced by people playing, like extra faction or kill points.

Take away the temptation to leave and increase the rewards for playing.

I like that idea.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

Sorry, you fail with that statement as yesterday I got two glad points playing E/Rt healer and no monk.

Most people would leave, though. Experiences vary.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cass

The #1 issue here: you will lose without any form of healing on board.

Not true. I've actually been on teams with decent monks and we would get rolled by team that had no monks that knew what they were doing. You're not at all hopeless if you don't have a monk. Not having that mindset can be a problem.