Curse

Fluffy Butt · Aug 21, 2007, 03:07 AM // 03:07

I made this thread to show everyone which is strong and weak of the elements. I got this made because my team leader in Allaince Battle kicked my friend as soon as he pinged skills for being a water Elementalist. I asked why, and he/she said, "Water magic is weak, I don't know why people use it." So I did some research and showing you that the elements "Have their weak and strong points" "and Depends on the combo of skills" For all of the beginner Elementalist doing Allaince Battles pay attention. (NOTE: I had no idea where to post this thread due the the Allaince Battle thread is for Stratigy and discussion.)

Lets start off with Water Elementalist and some of my favorite combo skills.

WATER MAGIC

A simple E/N build, not the best nor worst, just a example (Nice if you leave comments on it though)

Water Magic 12+4
Energy Storage 9+1
Curses 9

[card]Blurred Vision[/card][card]Price of Failure[/card][card]Shatterstone[/card][card]Rend Enchantments[/card][card]Vapor Blade[/card][card]Shard Storm[/card][card]Glyph of Restoration[/card][card]Water Attunement[/card]

Positives

-No real weakness
-Energy does well
-Great against Non-spell casters
-Good against anything

Negitives

-Monk recomended
-Rend Enchantments is very powerful, 30 second recharge is a problem other spells that I will obtain may help.

Water Magic Positives and Negitives

-Slow spells... they may not help against range attackers or even sins which makes Water not favor.
-Damage is not most powerful
-Defence spells is good
-Water... why is that unused the most?

FIRE MAGIC

Fire magic, the most over used magic in PvP and PvE. PvE is fine, PvP isn't as great.

This is a simple E/Me build that I like to use. Once again please comment on my build.

Fire Magic 12+4
Energy Storage 7+2
Illusion Magic 12

[card]Mind Blast[/card][card]Mark of Rodgort[/card][card]Fragility[/card][card]Meteor Shower[/card][card]Distortion[/card][card]Fire Attunement[/card][card]Fireball[/card][card]Aura of Restoration[/card]

Positives

-Defence is "fine" just need more energy than the enemy
-Attack is Great
-Good against anything

Negitives

-Fighting a high energy enemy (another elementalist)
-Meteor shower only for NPC's because of energy
-Monk recomended

Fire Magic Positives and Negitives

-Absolutely no defence spells or skills, energy storage, healing spells, is most relied on.
-Most powerful of all elements
-Burning = good degeneration
-Did I mention... No defence at all... Healing prayers or Earth magic is sometimes a must need.

Air Magic

My most favorite Magic because of the great defence and attack. Depends on what you use.

This is my favored build, please comment.

Air Magic 12+4
Energy Storage 10+2
Earth Prayers 8

[card]Enervating Charge[/card][card]Lightning Hammer[/card][card]Lightning Orb[/card][card]Armor of Sanctity[/card][card]Mystic Regeneration[/card][card]Aura of Restoration[/card][card]Air Attunement[/card][card]Elemental Attunement[/card]

Positives
-Powerful fast attack (spam two spells)
-Great Defence
-Energy is not a problem
-140 damage to 60 armor|109 damage to 70 armor|84 damage to 80 armor|

Negitives

-Both energy saving Enchantments must be up at all times even when not fighting, four seconds is a risky fight that could include interupt or surpise attack could mean death to energy and health.
-Enchantment remover, but have at least one Earth Magic infront to keep energy spells up.
-Protective spirit = annoying
-Lighting Orb can't hit target behind walls like Lightning Hammer

Air Magic Positives and Negitives

-Armor penetration is misunderstood
-Lots of exhaustion spells
-Powerful spells = 15 or 25 energy|Lesser spells = 5 or 10 energy = Hard to balance
-Most Powerful and cool spells cause exhuastion.

Earth Magic

I don't use this much like water magic so call me a noob if you need to on this build.

I'm not experainced as much as any other elements, please comment.

Earth Magic 12+4
Energy Storage 12+1

[card]Shockwave[/card][card]Ebon Hawk[/card][card]Stone Daggers[/card][card]Dark Prison[/card][card]Iron Palm[/card][card]Aftershock[/card][card]Glyph of Restoration[/card][card]Stoneflesh Aura[/card]

Positives

-Powerful Fast attack (for a while)
-Good defence
-Surpise attack = fun!!

Negitives

-Energy is sometimes a problem
-You do a lot of damage to start, after that, its stone daggers.
-cannot run into a enemy group, then 10 seconds later fight another. You would be kind of useless at the start.
-difficult to run

Earth Magic Positives and Negitives
-Earth a wonderful and pretty planet... still fire is the most seen.
-Great defence spells
-Long recharge for most "good" spells
-Armor ingoring spells cause exhauntion

Thats my thread, I hoped you enjoyed it and learned every element is strong in PvP.

Dr Strangelove · Aug 21, 2007, 03:47 AM // 03:47

There's a few problems that I can see with these.

Starting with the water build:

You say you have no energy problem, but that's really, really hard to believe. Speed boosts are also always helpful in AB.

Price of failure -> Glyph of lesser energy
Blurred vision -> armor of mist
rend enchantments - gaze of contempt
Glyph of restoration is a terrible self heal, but no good self heals from the necro line come to line, so I guess you're stuck with it.

Fire build:

Fragility is a complete waste of a slot, distortion is probably not needed, aura of restoration is a horrible self heal, meteor shower cast time and recharge is way, way too long for a fairly crappy effect.

fragility -> flame djinn's haste
Meteor Shower -> Searing heat
Distortion -> Rodgort's Invocation
Aura of Restoration -> Mystic Regeneration

I'm not too wild on mark of rodgort in skirmish situation, immolate can be a little more flexible, but both are fine.

Air build:

All air builds need blind. No exceptions, it's just too insanely powerful. I'd say aura of restoration -> blinding flash, since you already have a strong self heal and cover enchantment with mystic regeneration.

Veil of thorns is probably unnecessary, I'd take storm djinn's haste or windborne speed depending on your preference.

Enervating charge is a strong skill, but so many people have mending touch its not quite as awesome as it could be. I waffle between enervating charge and gale in that slot, both have their uses.

Earth build:

It's an interesting spike, to be sure, but probably not enough to score kills. I'd say it should incorporate deep wound somewhere in there, so your attack chain would be augury of death->shadow walk->iron palm->aftershock->shockwave->dash then a couple of skills dedicated to getting the fark away and healing, maybe dark escape and feigned neutrality.
Entangling asp or glyph of lesser energy might fit nicely in there too.

EDIT:

That earth build idea is amazingly fun like this:

[skill]augury of death[/skill][skill]shadow walk[/skill][skill]iron palm[/skill][skill]aftershock[/skill][skill]entangling asp[/skill][skill]shockwave[/skill][skill]dash[/skill][skill]feigned neutrality[/skill]

12+1+3 Earth Magic
4+1 energy storage
10 Deadly arts
7 Shadow Arts

therealjz1028 · Aug 21, 2007, 08:05 PM // 20:05

I agree with most of the changes Dr. Strangelove said. Also in reply to your post, water magic has by far the least amount of damage compared to the other three elements and although it can be incredibly useful in certain situations it isn't very well suited for capping groups IMO. I reiterate the fact that I am by any means saying water magic is useless or not as good as another element, because that would be untrue. I just believe as far as AB and capping goes fire and earth are superior. On the other hand, if you are on Kaanai or Ancestral, and you are trying to hold the bridge from the enemy team, water could perhaps be vastly superior depending on build (and even better when combined with another element, ever see deep freeze + savannah heat?)

Also I would just like to say, try out Dr. Strangelove's changes to your fire build and then you'll realize why Fire is the most played element in both PvP and PvE; it's not because Fire is overrated.

afya · Aug 21, 2007, 10:43 PM // 22:43

Here's my comment

Water :
1) Blurred Vision is a gd anti melee spell, not necessary to remove
2) Armour of mist is very nice for speed and armour, but if you want a infinite speed, storm djinn is your choice.

Shatterstone + vapor blade can lower caster's health to 1/4, why would you say water is weak?

Fire:
same as Dr. Strangelove

Earth:
this make me think of the earth conditioner build~

Perfected Shadow · Aug 22, 2007, 10:08 AM // 10:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fluffy Butt

Water... why is that unused the most?

Blurred and water snares are good, but for my tastes the damage is not good enough when you think about how much energy you have to expend.

Fire is the best in AB imo because:

1. Can quickly clear cap points
2. Perma burning is cool
3. Flame Djinn's Haste

Cebe · Aug 22, 2007, 11:15 AM // 11:15

I like a mixture of Air and Water in AB. There is nothing funnier than giving an Assassin who thinks he can "have you 1v1" a Chilling Winds and a Mind Freeze. 14 seconds of 90% slower gives you plenty of time to move back and give him the "1v1" pwning he deserves for thinking AB was all about "1v1".

I do like Vapor Blade but in AB enchantment stripping such as Rend Enchantments seems to be required a great deal for it to be as effective as it can. Speed buffs are also useful in AB, which Water Magic can also supply.

I'm very much looking forward to playing with Slippery Ground when EotN is released.

LightningHell · Aug 22, 2007, 11:19 AM // 11:19

Uh. Talking about Fire, why isn't anybody mentioning Mind Blast?

...I don't play AB that much, but a Mind Blast ele is (or used to be) a decent skirmish character.

EDIT: And Fire is not the most used in PvP. Look at ele's in GvG, most flagrunners are Water Magic based, and flagstand eles are generally Air with Wards.

Dr Strangelove · Aug 23, 2007, 01:07 AM // 01:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by LightningHell

Uh. Talking about Fire, why isn't anybody mentioning Mind Blast?

...I don't play AB that much, but a Mind Blast ele is (or used to be) a decent skirmish character.

EDIT: And Fire is not the most used in PvP. Look at ele's in GvG, most flagrunners are Water Magic based, and flagstand eles are generally Air with Wards.

We have been talking about mind blast - the OP posted a mind blast build and we offered critiques....

Mind blasters have been seeing GvG play, especially as gankers. There was a bit there where they increased the damage on mind blast and they were everywhere. They are also pretty easily the best for AB, sine they can solo cap a shrine in around 6seconds.

Div · Aug 23, 2007, 01:15 AM // 01:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by LightningHell

EDIT: And Fire is not the most used in PvP. Look at ele's in GvG, most flagrunners are Water Magic based, and flagstand eles are generally Air with Wards.

Depends on your definition of PvP. If you include RA and all the fire nukers with MS and firestorm as well as the flare mesmers, fire is the most used in PvP.

It's just high level PvP where water and air are used more than fire

LightningHell · Aug 23, 2007, 06:10 AM // 06:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

We have been talking about mind blast - the OP posted a mind blast build and we offered critiques....

Mind blasters have been seeing GvG play, especially as gankers. There was a bit there where they increased the damage on mind blast and they were everywhere. They are also pretty easily the best for AB, sine they can solo cap a shrine in around 6seconds.

Oh. Sorry, I guess just reading the last few posts and not reading the OP is bad of me. /Slapme

Although I'd usually take /Rt when playing Mind Blast. Meh, it might just be me being used to using /Rt due to GvG Mind Blasters generally being /Rt and /Mo.

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

Depends on your definition of PvP. If you include RA and all the fire nukers with MS and firestorm as well as the flare mesmers, fire is the most used in PvP.

but ra is teh deffinition of leet pvp!!1!

Leonof · Aug 23, 2007, 07:54 AM // 07:54

I run this in AB sometimes

14 Energy Storage
12 Water Magic
10 Healing Prayers
[skill]Deep Freeze[/skill][skill]Ice Spikes[/skill][skill]Blurred Vision[/skill][skill]Ice Spear[/skill][skill]Glyph of Essence[/skill][skill]Energy Boon[/skill][skill]Aura of Restoration[/skill][skill]Healing Breeze[/skill]

btw it's earth, water, fire and air

Perfected Shadow · Aug 23, 2007, 01:25 PM // 13:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leonof

I run this in AB sometimes

14 Energy Storage
12 Water Magic
10 Healing Prayers
[skill]Deep Freeze[/skill][skill]Ice Spikes[/skill][skill]Blurred Vision[/skill][skill]Ice Spear[/skill][skill]Glyph of Essence[/skill][skill]Energy Boon[/skill][skill]Aura of Restoration[/skill][skill]Healing Breeze[/skill]

:/ Try Mystic Regeneration instead of Healing Breeze, Water Attunement instead of glyph, Elemental Attunement instead of Energy Boon, Armor of Mist instead of Aura.

Dr Strangelove · Aug 23, 2007, 03:16 PM // 15:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by LightningHell

Oh. Sorry, I guess just reading the last few posts and not reading the OP is bad of me. /Slapme

Although I'd usually take /Rt when playing Mind Blast. Meh, it might just be me being used to using /Rt due to GvG Mind Blasters generally being /Rt and /Mo.

/mo is probably better in GvG thanks to good old mending touch, though I'm not sure what you'd use for a self heal with that. In AB and stuff like aspenwood, mystic regeneration is usually enough that you don't have to care if you have conditions on you, but you can take [skill]pious restoration[/skill] for emergencies.

EDIT: Crap, forgot pious restoration is hexes, not conditions. I guess you just grin and bear that cripple :/. While I'm on /D. [skill]veil of thorns[/skill] can be a very interesting skill on splitters with the energy for it.

/rt was for flaggers using weapon of warding if memory serves. It makes a more defensive support character, which is fine if you're supporting a pair of sins or something, I'm just not sure it's quite what you want for a skirmisher.

I guess it comes down to /D if you're selfish, and /mo or /rt if you have friends who need support.

Funk · Aug 24, 2007, 01:16 AM // 01:16

Wow, that builds in OP are really terrible.

Dr Strangelove · Aug 24, 2007, 02:56 AM // 02:56

I've started running mirage cloak over searing heat in my mind blast builds, it's really been working well. Yet another little tweak

.

Lorinda · Aug 24, 2007, 07:15 AM // 07:15

In my shack there are some ele builds that i like :P

(i dono who to post builds in here *shame*)
Just take a look there. Most builds need a monk there btw, I believe that AB is a team sport not a Im the best solo dude/dudet around.

Oh and Gaze > > > > > > any other enchant rippers beside shatterstorm.

Edit.. I have to post my shack then............ http://gwshack.us/cc463

bungusmaximus · Aug 24, 2007, 10:24 AM // 10:24

to the OP: hmm, an air build without blinding flash? that's one of the most powerful skills in that line imo...