Curse

Kassad · Mar 08, 2006, 01:04 AM // 01:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Egg Shen

I don't know, it does sound like a really amazing set of skills. First, the charm pet slot to get the pet. Then, the Call of Haste to make him uber fast. Finally, the Brutal Strike (or whatever other pet skill) to do a MASSIVE 140 damage. What other set of three skills can do so much damage!?

CoH, Bals Aura, Ferocious Strike, Brutal strike.

60AL Targets last ~5 seconds, monks tend to live ~15. Stop acting like Beast Mastery is useless, you probably dont even have a Ranger.

So do us a favor and shut the hell up.

wheel · Mar 08, 2006, 03:28 AM // 03:28

Stay on topic and stop flaming. I'm not afraid to delete posts and close the thread if it turns into a flame war. If you disagree with someone, please show with statistics and builds why you're right and they're wrong. Pointless insults do nothing but aggravate and set back meaningful discussion.

Sabu113 · Mar 08, 2006, 03:39 AM // 03:39

Well isnt the RA supposed to be a noob training ground in a sense?

Lorien of Mandos · Mar 08, 2006, 03:49 AM // 03:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by wheel

If you disagree with someone, please show with statistics and builds why you're right and they're wrong. Pointless insults do nothing but aggravate and set back meaningful discussion.

/QFT

Basically it comes down to judgement. You have to be able to see what skills are being used against you by these warriors (or smiting pets as the case may be) and react accordingly. Obviously it won't help to run away if they are using Bull's Strike, but not every warrior uses this (though it is popping up TONS, and rightfully so as it is a great skill now). Also don't forget that while you can kite through your teams traps, you may end up just running through the other team's instead making life difficult for your monks. Kiting: please do it (when called for).

JR · Mar 08, 2006, 09:16 AM // 09:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sabu113

Well isnt the RA supposed to be a noob training ground in a sense?

It's a horrible, horrible place to learn to play. Terrible builds, ignorant players, bad attitudes... Personally I would rather everyone learnt by joining a guild that was starting to GvG.

Warskull · Mar 08, 2006, 09:32 PM // 21:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kassad

Kite lol right.. I'd like to see a caster kite a pet with CoH. You would probably run 5 metres before you get Brutal Striked for 140 dmg and be lying on the ground.

Not only bad advice, absolutely ridiculous advice. Do not listen to this man.

The basics boil down to kite, kite, kite, kite, and then kite some more! Yes, warriors land crits when you are fleeing. However they have to hit you square on the back while you are moving. They require a speed buff or for you to be snared to be able to catch you. In addition as the warrior gets close if you turn and strafe a bit as just as he closes in for the hit you can prevent the critical. Bull's strike hurts, however you take more damage if you just stand there and take it.

You can kite almost anything. You can dodge lightning orbs by moving, you can limit hex stacking by running out of range of the hexers, you can dodge arrows and use terrain to block arrows.

Remember kiting doesn't use any skill slots and uses no energy. All you need are W, A, S, D and/or a mouse (ideally both.)

moriz · Mar 08, 2006, 09:54 PM // 21:54

i don't think kiting will actually prevent hex stacking, since even when you run out of range of the caster, he will complete his spells and will simply be dragged along with you. i tried it a few times: my target ran while i was casting, and as i was casting i was sort of dragged along. my character's feet are not moving, but he's moving towards the target. if i time it right, i could continue to stack spells on that target while getting dragged along all over the place.

that also happened once when i was kiting away from a warrior. warrior attacks, i kite, i keep getting hit. i change my perspective, and sure enough: the warrior's feet are not moving, but he was still all over me like cheap soup, merrily flailing away.

then i said screw with this and brought throw dirt the next match. at least when that happens again, he'll be flailing at air instead of me.

swordfisher · Mar 09, 2006, 12:13 AM // 00:13

As a warrior, I find it useful to kite out of enemy casting range while calling the mission-critical hex that's been laid on me (spiteful, for instance)- it's a victory in the resource war if you can keep that main hex from being covered before it's removed. Bear in mind, this is an instance of a warrior kiting away from a caster- behold the versatility of movement control!

edit: I have never had the experience moriz describes (casting in motion). You can't kite from a spell after it's started, but you can be elsewhere before the next one begins.

Egg Shen · Mar 09, 2006, 01:43 AM // 01:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kassad

CoH, Bals Aura, Ferocious Strike, Brutal strike.

60AL Targets last ~5 seconds, monks tend to live ~15. Stop acting like Beast Mastery is useless, you probably dont even have a Ranger.

So do us a favor and shut the hell up.

I'm not acting like beast mastery is useless. I actually have a lot of fun w/ it. But to act like BM is not only the counter to kiting, but apparently anything else in this game is just silly. The pet smite build has been around for a LONG time and as far as I know hasn't shaken the metagame to it's very core as of yet.

Obviously, if you're not kiting it means you're standing around and just taking damage. But to make matters worse (in the case of a Pet Smiter), you're probably going to be taking damage from the pet's master as well, since you'll be in his range also. Even if a pet is doing some heavy damage and is faster than you, it's STILL a good idea to keep moving to avoid attacks coming from elsewhere. . . surely you aren't advocating that kiting is useless???

Because we're just saying that, in general, it's a smart tactic. Against certain things it can be hard to do. If a water ele has hexed you and is babysitting you w/ water trident while a warrior is shocking you, yeah, trying to get away might be futile. But everything has a counter. In GENERAL, kiting is important.

Xasew · Mar 09, 2006, 06:13 AM // 06:13

Running away from the warrior results in critical hits. So remember that strafing is not always a bad idea.

Esuna · Mar 11, 2006, 09:15 AM // 09:15

Question: when you're kiting, is it alright to use your mouse and just point in whichever direction you wish to go, or must you use Q and E keys to "strafe"? I find the latter method never works for me, as I feel like I'm slowly crawling my way from the warrior on my butt. I find rangers more easily dodged, as I play the hide and seek game with them, running around rocks or going behind the gates.

Kassad · Mar 11, 2006, 09:50 AM // 09:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Egg Shen

surely you aren't advocating that kiting is useless???

All it does is delay your death, Kiting is actually a minor move of griefing. Running, wasting time, in the end you will die anyway. Wasting the time of probably 4-5 matches that could of been played if you didnt grief.

The whole "If you had a 385930803968 tonne warrior attacking you, would you stand there and TANK him?" is just a lame excuse that your team doesnt know the simple skill of bodyblocking.

JR · Mar 11, 2006, 03:59 PM // 15:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kassad

All it does is delay your death, Kiting is actually a minor move of griefing. Running, wasting time, in the end you will die anyway. Wasting the time of probably 4-5 matches that could of been played if you didnt grief.

The whole "If you had a 385930803968 tonne warrior attacking you, would you stand there and TANK him?" is just a lame excuse that your team doesnt know the simple skill of bodyblocking.

You seem to lack a very very fundamental understanding of this game. Either that, or you actually are better than everyone else at Guild Wars. I have you tried to tell the top 10 guilds that they are actually just griefing?

I know which my money is on.

Kiting means a warrior can not just stand there and lay into your face, their hits per minute is greatly reduced against a target that kites. Body blocking? A usefull tactic but it scews up your positional game, which could well end up screwing you up even more. Just because your leet arena stance tank W/Mo gets owned up while you chase around the opposing monk doesn't mean it's a bad tactic.

Play2Win.

rii · Mar 11, 2006, 05:02 PM // 17:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kassad

All it does is delay your death, Kiting is actually a minor move of griefing. Running, wasting time, in the end you will die anyway. Wasting the time of probably 4-5 matches that could of been played if you didnt grief.

Kiting is not the same as griefing.
Kiting is moving to reduce damage so you dont die. Unlike what you just mentioned, a kiter will not 'die anyway' (thats very arrogant of you), they will be healed/protted whilst moving. In gvg.. you move... then your monk gets healed instead of getting owned, which is what will happen if your foe has a brain. By your logic, using shutdown mesmers is also the move of a griefer, since your just hexing/whatevering people to stop them doing damage.
'Noobs, are simply dragging things out, since im just going to kill them anyway' ZOMG -.-

So is in fact, dealing damage to a limited degree. By trying to kill me, you are limiting my ability to kill you, since i have to get healed and stuff. By your logic of not doing things that impede their death, teams that dont quit the second they leave are scrubs. In fact, teams that even enter mission against you are just greifers when you could be doing something worthwhile, like spamming LoL! in ra. That seems unreasonable somehow.

Griefing on the other hand is different. A mesmer in pvp running illu/inspiration who just happens to have distortion on his bar and then LoL!'s as he delays the end of the game for half a minute, is griefing.

Personally, i have no problem with that... what is distortion for if not to keep you alive? If you deck a build out with the intention of running, then frankly your simply attempting to exploit weaknesses in the other team, i.e. lack of snares, hexes, coordination... whatever it may be. At the most basic level, thats the same as any other exploiting of weaknesses, like when you split vs a spike team and rape all their npc's while they are standing gormless at the flag. play2win indeed.

2p4u -.-

swordfisher · Mar 11, 2006, 10:51 PM // 22:51

Remember that by kiting a warrior, you're not just avoiding the occasional hit- you're slowing down his adrenal gain, and therefore reducing his overall damage output. In 4 v 4, if one enemy warrior is 70% useless because he's always a step behind your monk- that's a significant victory in the resource war (as long as the monk is doing his job, not just running like a headless chicken).

Egg Shen · Mar 11, 2006, 11:11 PM // 23:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kassad

All it does is delay your death, Kiting is actually a minor move of griefing. Running, wasting time, in the end you will die anyway. Wasting the time of probably 4-5 matches that could of been played if you didnt grief.

The whole "If you had a 385930803968 tonne warrior attacking you, would you stand there and TANK him?" is just a lame excuse that your team doesnt know the simple skill of bodyblocking.

Maybe you can explain to me how bodyblocking in any way relates to what we're talking about? If you're saying it somehow mitigates overall damage (why else would you bring it up in this kiting conversation), then it too just drags out the game. Right?

Vindexus · Mar 12, 2006, 02:38 AM // 02:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kassad

All it does is delay your death, Kiting is actually a minor move of griefing. Running, wasting time, in the end you will die anyway. Wasting the time of probably 4-5 matches that could of been played if you didnt grief.

The whole "If you had a 385930803968 tonne warrior attacking you, would you stand there and TANK him?" is just a lame excuse that your team doesnt know the simple skill of bodyblocking.

Bodyblocking one warrior is just going to get your entire team out of position.

wheel · Mar 12, 2006, 02:42 AM // 02:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kassad

All it does is delay your death, Kiting is actually a minor move of griefing. Running, wasting time, in the end you will die anyway. Wasting the time of probably 4-5 matches that could of been played if you didnt grief.

The whole "If you had a 385930803968 tonne warrior attacking you, would you stand there and TANK him?" is just a lame excuse that your team doesnt know the simple skill of bodyblocking.

How is kiting griefing and bodyblocking isn't? What world are you living in where you make arbitrary rules to determine your opponent's playstyle?

Don't be a scrub, and play to win. Read David Sirlin's series on Playing to Win and stop playing a different game than the rest of us.

Warskull · Mar 12, 2006, 04:36 AM // 04:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kassad

All it does is delay your death, Kiting is actually a minor move of griefing. Running, wasting time, in the end you will die anyway. Wasting the time of probably 4-5 matches that could of been played if you didnt grief.

The whole "If you had a 385930803968 tonne warrior attacking you, would you stand there and TANK him?" is just a lame excuse that your team doesnt know the simple skill of bodyblocking.

...you clearly have never PvPed before. Warriors have the highest pressure damage in the game. Not kiting them is just plain stupid. Would you stand in firestorm and meteor shower? Does your entire team have to ball up and take AoE damage because avoiding damage is griefing?

Eet GnomeSmasher · Mar 12, 2006, 10:05 AM // 10:05

Haha. Kassad is probably like the guy who called me a griefing runner because I refused to stand in his Zealot's fire and Balth Aura. There's a difference between running away being an ass and playing smart.

Kiting NEEDS to be done. It's stupid not to do so. But yeah...don't make a build where all you do is run and stay alive. That's also just plain stupid.