Curse

Mithie · Mar 04, 2006, 08:31 PM // 20:31

I've noticed a distinct lack of kiting in both random AND team arenas. I'd often see my squishy caster teammates just sit there not moving while a warrior just goes nuts on them with a giant 100 pound hammer, causing our monk to blow all of his energy healing the poor bastard who dies anyway because of damage overload. Why does no one kite? Well anyway, I guess I should put my money where my mouth is and tell those of you that don't know how to kite how to... well, kite.

Firstly, take two minutes of your life to take this quiz, and see if you need to kite:

1. Are you squishy? Yes (1 point) No (0 points)
2. Are you often being pressured by warriors and rangers? Yes (1 point) No(0 points)
3. Are you a total moron? Yes (0 points) No (1 point)

If you scored 3 points on the above quiz, then you need to KITE! Otherwise, just keep on doing what you were doing.

I don't know if someone already wrote something like this, but it doesn't hurt to have multiple perspectives, so here's My Guide to Kiting: How to Use Your Common Sense

If it were real life, and you see a giant, 7 foot tall, half naked muscular dude charging at you with a 100 pound sledgehammer, would you stand still and shrug it off, or would you run like hell? I would run like hell, and that's what kiting is: running like hell.

When you're being pressured by warriors or rangers, that is, if you've got a giant muscular dude trying to whack you down with an axe, or a ranger being a total bastard and pummelling you with distracts and dual shots, you need to NOT STAND STILL AND RUN AROUND.

Kiting Against Warriors:

The theory is this: if you have a warrior after you, you need to run. Running will make the warrior chase you. If the warrior is chasing you, then he's going to hit you less, because running and hitting is really hard. (Don't believe me? Try it sometime). Sure you'll have to stop to get a spell off or heal yourself, and you'll invariably get hit during those instances, but it's better than standing still ALL the time. This doesn't mean run in a straight line, however, because there are a few things you need to keep in mind:

1. Don't stray too far from your teammates. Watch your radar. Keep your teammates and your enemies within proximity of your area of effect. This means, if you're a healer, you want to keep your teammates within your healing radius, so you can heal them. If you're a degen mezzer, you want to keep your enemies within hexing distance, so you can hex them. This also works the other way, since staying near your teammates will also give them the oppertunity to help you out by tagging that warrior off you. (More on that later).

2. Constantly be aware of what that warrior chasing you is doing. Keep that warrior targeted by hitting the "target closest enemy" key. Watch what skills he's and how much health he has. Is he using Bull's? Stand still and take the hits until it wears off. (better than running and getting knocked down.) Is he using frenzy? Call target on him so your teammates can pummel him down easily and force him to use healing sig or his monk to blow a good chunk of energy healing him.

3. Time your defensive skill properly so as to not waste energy. Got a feeling that warrior has his adren charged? Hit distortion. That warrior's using healing sig? Stop and guardian yourself. Have a feeling he's about to hit final thrust? Hit prot spirit, or RoF yourself back to 50%+ health.

4. Watch corners and potential places where you can be bodyblocked in and trapped. Nowadays, with lots of pets running about, this is a big hazard concern. Don't get blocked! If you get blocked in, you're done. That's that.

How you can help your teammates kite

If you're not the one being pressured by their warrior, and you see one of your teammates running for his life, these are a few things you can do:

1. Snare/disable that warrior. Pin him down. Blind him. Cripple him. Put up a ward vs. foes and let your teammate kite the warrior in its radius.

2. Body block that warrior. Put yourself between that warrior and your teammate. It'll slow him down, and if you do it often enough, you'll piss off that warrior enough to come after you.

3. Is your teammate crippled or moving rediculously slow? Remove that hex or mend that condition!

How to kite against rangers

I don't mean ranger/warrior thumpers, as those I still classify as warriors. By rangers, I mean archers, who loves to shoot crap at you like spamming interrupts and dual shots, generally making your life pretty miserable. There's no reason why you should stand there and take that abuse. See, the thing you have to realize is, arrows can't go through walls! So...

1. Try to keep an obstacle between that ranger and yourself. See a rock near by? Get behind it. You can still cast through that rock, but that ranger won't be able to shoot you unless he relocates, in which case you'll relocate too - to the OTHER side of that mossy rock.

2. When you're behind an obstacle with only one entrance, like the res shrine on the lava map or that giant rock cropping on that kryta map, be careful not to get body blocked in. Getting shot be rangers is not fun, but getting body blocked by a thumper and his pet while that ranger circles around behind is even LESS fun.

3. Keep an eye on that ranger at all times. He WILL try to come at you from a different angle. Be ready to play cat and mouse with him around a lump of rock or a column or something.

4. On some maps, where there are simply very few obstacles, or it's not really convenient to run all the way around the map to hide behind that lone lump of rock, try at least to get the height advantage. It helps.

That's it. Kiting won't make you invincible, but it'll save your monk a LOT of energy and you a LOT of health. (Or, in the event that you ARE the monk, both!) So the next time a warrior comes at you with his hammer, please be smart and kite, not stand still and take the abuse like Daffy Duck does in Looney Toons.

Though this pertains mainly to random and team arena, kiting is also pretty much mandatory in GvG or HoH, though if you're playing HoH and GvG, you probably know how to kite already anyway, and if you didn't, well now you do. So that's that.

Murder In China · Mar 04, 2006, 08:36 PM // 20:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mithie

Firstly, take two minutes of your life to take this quiz, and see if you need to kite:

1. Are you squishy? Yes (1 point) No (0 points)
2. Are you often being pressured by warriors and rangers? Yes (1 point) No(0
points)
3. Are you a total moron? Yes (0 points) No (1 point)

If you scored 3 points on the above quiz, then you need to KITE! Otherwise, just keep on doing what you were doing.

The third question is weird to me, isn't it suppose to be 3. Are you a total moron? Yes (1 Point) No (0 Points)?

Mithie · Mar 04, 2006, 08:38 PM // 20:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murder In China

The third question is weird to me, isn't it suppose to be 3. Are you a total moron? Yes (1 Point) No (0 Points)?

Naw. No is the correct answer, so you get a point for that.

arredondo · Mar 05, 2006, 12:18 AM // 00:18

I am NOT being sarcastic here... this article needs to be stickied. It is by far one of the best general PvP article I've ever read here. In all competitive activities, be it basketball, chess, Counterstrike, or whatever, there is something called the BASICS that surprisingly even some experienced players are very weak at. In Guild Wars, protecting one's self is about as basic as it comes, and knowing when and how to kite is a very important part of being self-protective.

In GW PvP play, nothing astounds me more than watching someone who obviously knows how to play but is unable to figure out when to take off like a prom dress when he is in danger. No matter what build I have, I am the kite master unless my monk support (or my character's skill set) is overly dominant in protecting me from their damage dealing ability. I use all the tactics described above as well as a few more to keep me alive while minimizing the need for my healer/prot support to have to waste time and energy on me. As a result, even on an awful random team (as an example), I'm almost always the last alive if we lose. SMART KITING WORKS, and more people need to do it.

Pne advantage of successfully kiting when, say, two enemies are on your tail is that it gives your other teammates a numbers advantage vs. the remaining enemy. This advantage is more pronounced and significant in 4x4 play, so if they are competent you'll see your buddies have an easier time winning their 3v2 battles while you have the other two opponents on the other side of the map trying to stop you. So by the time you come back and join your team (in arenas) if they've been killing with their numbers advantage, it may be 4v3 or even 4v2 in your favor.

And if you have snares, one tactic I enjoy is to lead a pursuer far away, then cast something like Imagined Burden under Mantra of Persistance on him. He'll be banished from the main fight (as you get back to the team) for almost 40 seconds if he has no way to remove it. Iron Mist, with its 90% speed reduction for almost 20 seconds, is also good to use with this tactic.

You can even kite in the area if you need to keep a Monk's healing skills towards you in the vicinity. For instance, run through Ward vs. Melee if it is up and it's tough for them to stay on you with melee attacks. If nothing else, keep running in wide aggro-range circles, occassionaly casting key interrupts or other skills on important targets as you stay alive. You can still be useful to the team even if you're being evasive.

For general kiting, speed-up skills (like Windborne Speed and Sprint) and defensive stances are often your best tools if you don't have strong healing or monk protection spells helping out when you're under attack. The key to not being hurt when kiting is to create distance with your pursuer, and nothing keeps them close to you (especially vs. Warriors) than if you have to stop and cast for whatever reason.

Distortion, as mentioned above, is king in this category vs. Warriors and Rangers. Despite some weaknesses against certain attacks, it works well in most cases when kiting those classes. This has not changed much for casters who use Distortion since the update, but Warriors and Rangers with an /Me secondary may have energy issues using it now. Defensive Stance and, vs. Rangers, Deflect Arrows are both great kiting stances as well.

Against Mesmers and (to a lesser extent) Necros who chase you, the stance Hex Breaker works the best. You can have one copy of the stance up and another copy on standby. You never need to stop moving as you easily cancel two hexes coming at you, but more importantly your purser must stop each tiime to cast. By the time your HB needs to recharge, he's so far away that you don't have to worry and he'll likely go after someone else.

Against Eles stances aren't great unless you waste a slot on one of the Mantras of xxxx (besides skill-prepared Rangers in snowsuits of course), so interrupts minimize most damage as you kite. You can now easily see their spell warming up as you run, and if they are in the aggro circle still as they do it, simply interrupt it with Mesmer or Ranger skills as late as you can then continue running (more distance is created this way).

Also, in general vs. Air Eles and Rangers, zig-zagging an inch left and right as you run away will help you avoid being hit by some attacks. This works best against arrows, but it also helps against Lightning Orbs. Use this along with the terrain tips listed by the OP to minimize their damage towards you.

Speaking of terrain, one of the best things a good kiter can do before he takes flight is to be in a good kite position on the battlefield to begin with. As a spell caster, if most of the fighting is on a ledge, you should be down below taking care of your business. As a caster or a Ranger, attacking from up high when the action is below also gives you the ability to run when targeted. Unless I'm melee or need line-of-sight to attack, I rarely stay on the same level as the enemy if I can help it.

I'm sure there are tons of other benefits people can list as a reaon to kite, but as far as I can tell, there are few reasons NOT to at the right time in general play. Your game plan becomes easier to implement when enemies who chase you end up leaving you alone because it's not worth their trouble running after you. Warriors can't build adrenaline, Rangers are wasting energy and prep time, etc. Learn to kite and your survivability skills will increase tremendously.

The Real Roy Keane · Mar 05, 2006, 02:11 AM // 02:11

As well as being an invaluable skill, it's worth learning how to kite to evoke a response from the uber l33t Dolyak Signet RA Warriors:
'0mg st0p running OnlY n00bs RuN lolololOl1!1'
'st0p runnInG n00b ID pwn u ni a 1v1'
'z0mg runnerS have n0 honuor'

Priceless..

Rukmedes · Mar 05, 2006, 02:41 AM // 02:41

Also, learn to kite TOWARDS THE MONK.

It doesn't matter how much you kite if there is no monk to heal you!

Leonof · Mar 05, 2006, 04:28 AM // 04:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rukmedes

Also, learn to kite TOWARDS THE MONK.

It doesn't matter how much you kite if there is no monk to heal you!

Not really true. Just coz there's no monk doesn't mean kiting is useless. In fact, it makes more sense to kite when there is no monk. You kite so you live long enough to either gain hp back or energy to retaliate.

wheel · Mar 05, 2006, 04:38 AM // 04:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leonof

Not really true. Just coz there's no monk doesn't mean kiting is useless. In fact, it makes more sense to kite when there is no monk. You kite so you live long enough to either gain hp back or energy to retaliate.

His point was that in a competitive setting where you will have a team build with monks, it does no good to kite away from the monks. If you're in a situation where there are no monks, kiting does still help, though.

Tarot Ribos · Mar 05, 2006, 05:21 AM // 05:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Real Roy Keane

As well as being an invaluable skill, it's worth learning how to kite to evoke a response from the uber l33t Dolyak Signet RA Warriors:
'0mg st0p running OnlY n00bs RuN lolololOl1!1'
'st0p runnInG n00b ID pwn u ni a 1v1'
'z0mg runnerS have n0 honuor'

Priceless..

I agree with this message. There is a difference between running away to be annoying and running away to not lose. My favorite response to those half-minded insults, though, has to be... "If I'm such a n00b, why can't you kill me?" To which I invariably get the reply "stfu n00b."

Remember: He who fights and runs away, lives to fight another day. And I am proud to say that is one thing I'm good at: Staying alive to fight longer. Of course, as a PvP mesmer, doing so is essential.

Murder In China · Mar 05, 2006, 06:37 AM // 06:37

Protector's strike has been beefed up to make you think twice about kiting.

Mithie · Mar 05, 2006, 07:04 AM // 07:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murder In China

Protector's strike has been beefed up to make you think twice about kiting.

You can easily kite through protector's strike.

Murder In China · Mar 05, 2006, 07:59 AM // 07:59

Any warrior worth his salt would have a type of snare or run buff.

Mithie · Mar 05, 2006, 08:17 AM // 08:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murder In China

Any warrior worth his salt would have a type of snare or run buff.

Doesn't matter if the warrior snares, or if he sprints, or whatever, you'll still take LESS damage by kiting than standing still.

You're trying to say "Well, there's so many anti-kite skills out there I might as well just stand there and take the beating", which, no offense, is really not the greatest thing to do when under warrior pressure.

RandomEngy · Mar 06, 2006, 03:20 AM // 03:20

Running isn't always the best. When you're running you're not doing anything, just taking critical hits from warriors. And if they've taken Bull's Strike things could get very sticky for you. If you're squishy and there's abolutely no protection against warriors on your team, then kiting is good. However the best solution IMO is to take anti-warrior skills. Just chain Guardian with a boon prot and you can keep a warrior's target alive quite easily, even when he's stationary. If you've got a curses necro, Enfeeble/Enfeebling Blood/Shadow of Fear is by far the best. In that case the targeted person can just laugh off the damage being cut by 1/2-1/6, and focus on doing their job. Throw Spiteful in there and there's no reason at all to move anywhere.

Lorien of Mandos · Mar 06, 2006, 04:46 AM // 04:46

While it is true that with anti-warrior skills and good monks the damage can be mitigated from warriors, kiting is not just about lowering the enemy damage per second, it is about creating favorable positions for your team. With effective kiting, you can lure less experienced players away from their support, lure them through traps to damage them, etc etc, kiting > standing stll.

glountz · Mar 06, 2006, 08:38 AM // 08:38

Very good guide.
However, I will do the devil's advocate (sorry).
Kiting isn't ALWAYS necessary. Don't kite in a silly way and think before kiting. The OP is right, kiting will prevent you damage. But it will prevent you from casting spells. 3 warriors run at you and you are a mesmer? Hit distortion. Degen /burden/failure them then kite. As a healer, can you out damage the warrior's bashing at you? If yes, keep coming.
He is a hammer guy? Hit guardian or Kite. A KD can mean your death. If you can outdamage the sword/axe warrior without having e-management problems then do so. Other wise kite.
But target the warrior before kiting to see what's coming. Bull's charge/strike? Herr.. I think you will be forced to stand around (met my first Iway Bull's charge W as a monk in TA yesterday. We won but it was nasty).
You are against necro/mesmer team build? You can kite all you want, you will die no matter how fast you do.
Eles? Field usage by hiding behind rocks can help you. But don't be sure. Kite those geos.
You are slowed through hexes/conditions? Cure them then kite. If you are repeatedly slowed or unable to remove them, it's better to hit protection spells (if you have) instead of kiting at 50% of your movement without casting spells and being bashed anyway.
Finally, I would say that kiting is really necessary only if you lack severely some self defenses skills AND have short casting times. Having distortion as a mesmer in TA is rarely a lost slot. It can seriously help you live longer. The same with swirling aura/kinetic armor from the eles. Eles have the long casting time that prevents them to kite efficiently. Prot monks, with their 1 sec or less casting time spells can kite, heal, kite, heal. Eles must stop for 3-4 secs to cast their spells, meaning that if they kite, they don't do anything productive. So they'd better bring some prot spells if they are chased. Ward + a guardian from your prot monk is effective enough to cast through a 3 warrior's charge on you (in TA, don't try this in 8v8).

tafy69 · Mar 06, 2006, 09:59 AM // 09:59

Always kite, even if you have distortion, guardian or aegis on you.

When a warrior runs towards you, run away!

If a warrior sticks to you like glue, then kite untill you need to cast then kite again. Teams lose because people take to much damage from warriors.

moriz · Mar 06, 2006, 03:56 PM // 15:56

bringing a defensive stance and a blinding skill are often good ideas. once i managed to hold off a warrior for about a minute and a half while my RA team wailed away at something else. basically, check to see if the warrior has condition removal or not. if not, blind him and ignore him for the duration of the blind. if the warrior does have conditional removal, throw up a stance/defensive enchant and ignore him. if he can remove conditions AND get past your defensive skills, then kite.

JR · Mar 06, 2006, 04:11 PM // 16:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

bringing a defensive stance and a blinding skill are often good ideas. once i managed to hold off a warrior for about a minute and a half while my RA team wailed away at something else. basically, check to see if the warrior has condition removal or not. if not, blind him and ignore him for the duration of the blind. if the warrior does have conditional removal, throw up a stance/defensive enchant and ignore him. if he can remove conditions AND get past your defensive skills, then kite.

Or you could save yourself having to fill your skillbar with defensive skills, and just kite? It's not always a bad idea (For example; Distortion monks), but by no means is it an excuse not to kite.

Not to mention you are reffering solely to Random Arena, which is not really worth discussing.

moriz · Mar 06, 2006, 04:29 PM // 16:29

just about everyone should bring A defensive stance/skill (note the emphasis on A) because it's best to not always count on your teammates rescuing you. a blind skill is not always used solely for defense. it can be used as ranger and warrior shutdown in a pinch. two skill slots is definately NOT fill up your skill bar now, is it?

the way i see it, when kiting, you're not nearly as effective as when you're staying put. my point is, if you can AVOID kiting, then don't. use it as a last resort.