Curse

Ego · Aug 28, 2007, 04:00 AM // 04:00

vD faced NoT earlier in the same monthly, NoT was running the exact same build both times.

Which means vD could have brought an exact counter, but they went doing it the hard way. And lost.

And Grats to [rawr] for winning.

And that RenO and NoT made it so far with the exact same build every match, suprises me.

Kinda like DrE last month, right Burton?

DIH49 · Aug 28, 2007, 05:06 AM // 05:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Llint

They all quit lolololol - honestly though, no lie they quit. Maybe they will be back for GW2 - we can only hope

. There may be good players right now, but its to the standard of this ladder, and not past ladders.

That is particularly asinine. What sort of nonsense is classifying a modern guild by comparing them to some great guild of old in an imaginary battle? Not only this, but somehow figuring out who would win and how easily? Essentially what I see here is stupid excuse making coupled with blind nostalgia. A guild's greatness only matters with reference to its competition. It sure as hell does not matter with reference to the pretend battles of forum paper theorists. The past is done; people need to catch up with that.

And of course, I do not say this about you, I merely quote your post for reference.

Signet Of Hell · Aug 28, 2007, 06:36 AM // 06:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bowstring Badass

Think its time vD got a new build.

They're +120 rating above anyone else, don't think you should be giving tips smart arse. They aren't demi-gods, they can't win everything. Look at their forums, they know what they did wrong.

Torsen1 · Aug 28, 2007, 07:19 AM // 07:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by d00m1n470r

vD faced NoT earlier in the same monthly, NoT was running the exact same build both times.

By the time the 2nd match came along, we had made a number of significant revisions to the build. The change from imperial to nomads was also very important.

Congrats to rawr.

Draak · Aug 28, 2007, 09:57 AM // 09:57

At least the matches weren't boring to watch.

graz rawr.

Burton2000 · Aug 28, 2007, 10:06 AM // 10:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by d00m1n470r

Kinda like DrE last month, right Burton?

Yeah I was quite suprised myself how far we managed to get last season with just that build. People probably didnt take us seriously.

IMMORTAlMITCH · Aug 28, 2007, 10:13 AM // 10:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by RhanoctJocosa

Btw I hear dT > Rawr + RenO. Is this true??

Actually we flawlessed RenO a week ago on our smurf (them on their smurf).

Rawr we played in the monthly in a swiss round and I feel we lost cause of some bad tactics (cause our main warrior couldn't make it).

Quote:

Edit: DIH49, he/she probably means guilds like NoT because they flawlessed vD or even EvIL, LuM etc. because he/she doesn't know what history is.

RenO runs 1 build and Rawr is just not good, DF, NoT, vD and Arc are all ten times better than Rawr in regards to individual player skill.

DIH49 · Aug 28, 2007, 12:17 PM // 12:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

RenO runs 1 build and Rawr is just not good, DF, NoT, vD and Arc are all ten times better than Rawr in regards to individual player skill.

Sounds like a bad case of Ostrich syndrome to me. You do know that sticking your head in the ground and chanting doesn't make something true, right? The only- and I do mean only- relevant test of a team in any competitive format is against its competition. Please note that this specifically excludes paper tests made by desktop theorists. If you can succeed against your opposition (who is going to do their damndest to make certain you do not succeed) then you are good. If you cannot then you are bad. it really is that simple.

IMMORTAlMITCH · Aug 28, 2007, 01:38 PM // 13:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by DIH49

Sounds like a bad case of Ostrich syndrome to me. You do know that sticking your head in the ground and chanting doesn't make something true, right? The only- and I do mean only- relevant test of a team in any competitive format is against its competition. Please note that this specifically excludes paper tests made by desktop theorists. If you can succeed against your opposition (who is going to do their damndest to make certain you do not succeed) then you are good. If you cannot then you are bad. it really is that simple.

I give props to Rawr for winning, and I'm sure they could care less about what I say, but imo they have a few players that are so bad at the positions they play that I'm really surprised they got this far.

I won't give any names but fact of the matter is that I'd much rather face Rawr in a tournament than any of the guilds I mentioned before.

I've played Rawr in various pugs before and absolutely destroyed them and haven't been able to do the same versus any of the other aforementioned guilds.

DIH49 · Aug 28, 2007, 10:16 PM // 22:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

I won't give any names but fact of the matter is that I'd much rather face Rawr in a tournament than any of the guilds I mentioned before.

Fair enough, but so what? You may not consider them the best of the best- a point I don't think worth discussing given my regard for paper theory on the topic- but it is still incredibly foolish to regard them as anything but a good team. The ultimate test of a guild is in the tournament where every other top team is trying their hardest to beat every other team on the way to the top. No matter what else you can say about who emerges victorious, it's damn foolish to give them anything but respect and acknowledgement.

Quote:

I've played Rawr in various pugs before and absolutely destroyed them and haven't been able to do the same versus any of the other aforementioned guilds.

I certainly have, but what does that matter? Ladder play is by its nature given to these sorts of things. The only thing that matters is tournament play.

urania · Aug 29, 2007, 08:44 AM // 08:44

rawr got pretty much lucky with other better guilds kicking each other out of the tourny cause of bad playing/getting overconfident.

IMMORTAlMITCH · Aug 29, 2007, 08:55 AM // 08:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by DIH49

I certainly have, but what does that matter? Ladder play is by its nature given to these sorts of things. The only thing that matters is tournament play.

This was in ATs more often than not.

DIH49 · Aug 29, 2007, 12:43 PM // 12:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

This was in ATs more often than not.

So? We are back to silly excuse making? Unless you can provide me with some relevant metric to determine who is or is not "good" more accurate than who wins the tournaments, all you're doing is taking some silly misconceived personal distaste and asserting it as fact. It doesn't matter if every team in the world beat them in every AT in history. As long as they come in at the top in the tournament, that is all that matters. The value of a team is decided by how well they do when it counts. It seems to me utter foolishness to use any other standard.

Rapture · Aug 29, 2007, 02:13 PM // 14:13

are we allowed to flame here? beating the kid with down syndrome at chess doesnt make you good.

rawr are not good. you think these 'paper theories' dont mean anything when the simple truth is most of the players have been around for a long time and most of the players in rawr could not win anything before everyone else playing quit.

so no, winning a tournament now doesnt make you good because everybody knows the players winning tournaments now used to get rolled right up until the point where the people doing the rolling quit.

the whole idea reno are considered good now is laughable.

ChopChop · Aug 29, 2007, 03:31 PM // 15:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rapture

so no, winning a tournament now doesn't make you good because everybody knows the players winning tournaments now used to get rolled right up until the point where the people doing the rolling quit.

the whole idea reno are considered good now is laughable.

Where I come from we call it progress, people who were new to the game back in the day have now played for a year or more and improved their game.

Having played GvG's competitively for over 18 months, the level of play at the very top have if anything only improved..
Back in the day you saw a few guilds beat up everyone why was that? .. because there was a less 'decent' guilds out there, now most compettitve gvg players have been playing for over a year..

I do not mean to say that a guild like EvIL was bad, by no means they were definitely the best at the time, but don't kid yourself and think that the level of played have dropped, because what you got at the top now is people who have been playing the game for close to or over 2 years.

The best guilds do have really strong players, and most of them will stay around at least as long as there is monthly tournaments for real life prizes.

Jaden Stone · Aug 29, 2007, 05:58 PM // 17:58

Congrats to rawr for getting the gold.

I really don't see where all this rawr hate is comming from. Every tournement has it's lucky matchups and tournement upsets that can go in the favor of certain guild. I personally play with them a lot and think their player skill and tactics are quite high and worthy to take gold in a monthly. Every guild has it's good and bad players, but it's team synergy that truely matters and they work well together for the most part. It's not like they didn't face any good guilds to earn their trim either, beating DF (although very close), PnH, and Reno certainly wasn't easy. They minimized thier mistakes and came out on top.

As for guilds running the same build throughout the tournement I can't say certain guilds didn't deserved to be punished for doing so. We personally ran the same build all but 1 round, modified slightly for each oppenent. We had 3 other builds at our disposal and based on our matchups we knew our opponents and thier ability to counter and therefore were never countered. Us, Rawr, vD, Reno, all ran the same build all tourney and only 1 was punished for it, which says a lot about the current top guilds and how dynamic they are. If we made final 2 we would not have changed builds either.

I believe the competition in guild wars is actually still quite high. It used to be only the top 20 guilds would ever pose a threat. As polly said most GvGers have at least 1 year of experiance now and even top 100 guilds can be a challange to defeat. As for buildwars it's always been that way in important tournements from near begining. From Te mantra of lightning monks vs RIFT FC air spike to iQ med shower VoD camp. Half the battle of a tournement is in the pregame and knowing your opponent, get used to it.

moko · Aug 29, 2007, 07:25 PM // 19:25

you may stop with the guild bashing now. you've prooven enough that your ego is big, no need for it anymore.

congratulations to rawr.

pah01 · Aug 30, 2007, 05:07 AM // 05:07

This is really kind of stupid in a way calling the monthly winners a bad team.

Lol @ rapture.

This time last year my guild would have got rolled by all the teams in the top 50. Now we have easily beat teams that before have kicked our asses becuase we seriously tried to get better at the game.

People forget that there once were teams who were bad who now got better.

It might be that the skills of last pride and war machine are better than the best teams now but it wont be by much - because much of the way those two teams played now has been passed down.

I agree with chop chop amd jadens assessment about gvg competition. It used to be that everyone considered the 20 to 200 odd guilds were all sucky, i dont think this is the case now, i also think that the midlevel competition is better than before as well.

Joe

bluechestdude · Aug 30, 2007, 06:44 AM // 06:44

grats rawr! gl next season

Darkpower Alchemist · Aug 30, 2007, 07:12 AM // 07:12

I've played for better than 2 years now. I've seen EvIL and WM dominate. I was surprised when PnH won the big dance, and was disappointed when I thought EW would take the whole thing.

vD getting blown out of the water,though, was a total shocker. I've seen them get into that dominating type rythm similar to EvIL in their day, and even they got mashed in some surprise loses at time.

My point is, in lose one can find an even greater victory. In victory, one must always feel they deserve it to achieve it. Congrats rawr. Now that you're on top of the american mountain, you rock a bullseye with those cape linings.