Curse

Riotgear · Jul 21, 2007, 12:15 PM // 12:15

AOD's gonna have a hard time becoming viable again just because Shadow Walk does largely the same thing and can be cancelled with DP/FN anyway, yet is less fragile because removing a stance is considerably harder than removing an enchantment.

I guess a large part of the problem really is a conceptual one: Lead-skips are always going to be favored by spike builds for faster delivery because spiking is mostly reliant on duals, and spiking is most of what the class was designed for. As lead-skipping offhands tend to be of the same quality if not better than ones that don't skip leads, bringing a lead is effectively optional, so the lead has to be decent in its own right, but that's hard to justify when duals are so much better and Impale is better than most leads by itself. Meanwhile, most leads have prohibitive recharges which prevent them from even being used on anything but a spike bar, but for reasons already mentioned, they suck at spiking anyway.

twicky_kid · Jul 21, 2007, 12:31 PM // 12:31

Ranger:

Barrage will be pushed out by volley. Will that give rangers a type of pressure style along with crip shot? Maybe. Could be fun to see.

Feral Aggression is really scary. Pets already do 30-40 dmg a hit. At 12 beast you are going to be adding 17 dmg and 33% IAS? Wtf are you thinking.

War:

Grapple is OP. Since steady stance became popular I always thought to myself "I wish I had a KD on this bar." Well....now I do and it feeds steady stance. GG

Lets look at disarm for a moment. What happens when an adrenaline skill is disabled? Oh that's right you lose all adrenaline. Why are we giving melee characters an essentially blackout with a 1/2 attack speed and deals dmg? Forget a curse necro and b surge for war hate 1 line backer can easily control 2 melee foes by himself. Now what to put in that empty slot?

Mes:

Power block just got replaced by power lock. Anyone else seeing a recurring theme of mini elites?

Para:

Holy spear just pushed Minions and spirits out of competitive play all together. HA is going to be overran with paragons even more than it already is because of this. Its going to completely counter everything there. Oh btw, did I mention it was adrenaline?

Anthem of disruption is just sick. 10 second recharge on a party wide interrupt buff. So now when you train a monk or decide to spike one he'll be guaranteed to be interrupted somewhere.

Last but not least Spear Swipe. Notice this is in the Leadership attribute NOT spear. You do not have to have a spear to be able to use it you just need to be paragon. An unconditional dazed with + dmg. At 0 leadership its a 4 second dazed. That's more than enough to really hurt.

Necro:

Is it just me or is anyone else afraid of putrid vile? Adding a degen hex to a tainted bar that goes boom. I like it already.

As if its not uncommon for a necro to carry draw conditions we get to add Angorodon's Gaze to the bar. Thanx for that free 60+ life steal that completely avoids all prot.

Masochism will welcome the return of the order spammer. OoA will basicly pay for itself. Lets not forget dark fury either with fear me spam running around everywhere.

Rit:

Weapon of Aggressor looks promising. Too high energy to run it on a war though. Would have to be a caster that could supply the energy.

Weapon of renewal will solve the dervish's energy problems easily.

Ele:

Earthen Shackles just wow. That's all I can say about this insane skill. The only balance here is its in earth. Earthen Shackles + Mark or rodgart + conjure flame war = stuck like chuck.

Glyph of Swiftness

no more dodge ball.

Derv:

Zealous sweep is only thing noticeable I saw here.

Still want to see the elites.

DarkNecrid · Jul 21, 2007, 12:53 PM // 12:53

There are no elites.

twicky_kid · Jul 21, 2007, 12:58 PM // 12:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

There are no elites.

That's pretty weak.

That won't change the meta at all. They'll nerf the crap out of everything until some other under used skill comes up to take the old nerfed elites place. Monk bars won't change at all. All the new monk skills are crap. Wow we got some smiting skills. Smiting will never be strong because its never been strong without being too strong and gets the nerf bat. We've had Barry Bonds at the plate when it comes to smiting skills.

Evilsod · Jul 21, 2007, 01:02 PM // 13:02

I don't do much PvP... but even i can see these skills are stupidly overpowered/abusable.

Poison Tip Signet looks like an attempt to get rangers to use something other than Apply Poison... problem is with 'Experts Focus' in there, it makes 5e attack skills almost free. Its not as much in the order of spam poison... but for ganking with a well placed interupt, 1 lot of poison is all you need.

twicky_kid · Jul 21, 2007, 01:21 PM // 13:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilsod

Poison Tip Signet looks like an attempt to get rangers to use something other than Apply Poison... problem is with 'Experts Focus' in there, it makes 5e attack skills almost free. Its not as much in the order of spam poison... but for ganking with a well placed interupt, 1 lot of poison is all you need.

It won't replace apply poison by a long shot. The only real use it has is with volley and barrage. Will be great for pve. In pvp I don't want to stop for 1 second between every attack just to get poison. Even with barrage and volley if you do happen to get more than 1 target removal is cheap and frequent.

masta_yoda · Jul 21, 2007, 01:24 PM // 13:24

there will be elite skills..... zzzz
they said they will release like 150 skills or something
i only see 100 skills dere

back on topic

pulverizing isnt really that broken considering you cant flail, pulverizing same time, crushing is still better. unless u have frenzy

cure hex seems broke, heal + hex removal, makes smite hex and other hex removals seems bad.

healing ribbon seems a lil over powered.

masochism seems broke, enables orders spam, too good e-management

steadfast soul almost gaurantees immunity vs kd

cacophony seems like an overkill though it resembles backfire.

waste not want not, seems like a decent energy management skill

energetic was lee sa is good enamagement for rits XD

Riotgear · Jul 21, 2007, 01:29 PM // 13:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

Barrage will be pushed out by volley. Will that give rangers a type of pressure style along with crip shot? Maybe. Could be fun to see.

2-second recharge vs. 1 for Barrage alone is a major difference. Not that I consider either to be markedly useful, but Volley's main advantage will just be that you can stick it on a barrager in PvE and it'll lessen the recharge throttling from Barrage.

kvndoom · Jul 21, 2007, 01:33 PM // 13:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by masta_yoda

there will be elite skills..... zzzz
they said they will release like 150 skills or something
i only see 100 skills dere

100 universal skills and 50 PVE only skills. The PVE-only skills haven't been posted yet. What scares me is that if Anet found this crap suitable for PVP, just how overpowered are the ones they deemed PVE-only?

Evilsod · Jul 21, 2007, 01:42 PM // 13:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

It won't replace apply poison by a long shot. The only real use it has is with volley and barrage. Will be great for pve. In pvp I don't want to stop for 1 second between every attack just to get poison. Even with barrage and volley if you do happen to get more than 1 target removal is cheap and frequent.

It probably won't no, but you never know. If your going 1 on 1 with a flag runner you only need to poison it once if you can actually interrupt its mending touch well. Its a long shot i know, but it at least has a chance.

The 2 skills i find extremely stupid. Sloth's Hunters Shot and Disrupting Shot. 1 does a huge ~+60 damage if they're not using a skill, the other is an interrupt that deals ~+40 if they are. So... you spike with those 2 skills... the target suddenly realises he's under attack and uses a skill, which then gets pounded by Disrupting for even more damage.

I'm a little confused about Cracked Armour myself. Dunno what it does yet but i just haven't looked so... But there seem to be several skills that give extra bonus' vs Cracked Armour and very few skills that actually inflict it.

kvndoom · Jul 21, 2007, 03:09 PM // 15:09

Cracked armor reduces your total AL by 20, with a minimum of 60.

RhanoctJocosa · Jul 21, 2007, 03:59 PM // 15:59

Another reason not to stick around for GWEN! ~<3

infymys · Jul 21, 2007, 08:41 PM // 20:41

Oh joy, more heroway coming this fall.

Master Ketsu · Jul 21, 2007, 09:10 PM // 21:10

Hate to go against the masses here, but ive studied game balance quite a bit in my time. To be perfectly honest the reason for most of the imba crap going around is not because anet wont nerf it, but because the pvp community as a whole is unwilling to try new things in an attempt to counter them.

Rather then whining about whatever you think is overpowered, try looking at it as a challenge. Im not saying this game is perfectly balanced, plenty of skills need a nerf and plenty need a buff, but not nearly as bad as most of the crybabies here say it does. The GWEN skills have pretty good utility, but for the most part most combo's with them also have prenty decent counters to them as well.

Shadow Kurd · Jul 21, 2007, 09:14 PM // 21:14

Almost all i see here is , This is overpowered, this sucks ,this is underpowered etc etc etc,

At least give some feedback on how to fix them

urania · Jul 21, 2007, 10:17 PM // 22:17

will cracked armor stack with sundering mod/judges insight? :|

Lodurr · Jul 21, 2007, 10:41 PM // 22:41

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Steadfast_Soul

One more reason to run Melandrus instead of warriors: KDs on monks won't work anymore.

Grizmor · Jul 21, 2007, 11:07 PM // 23:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lodurr

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Steadfast_Soul

One more reason to run Melandrus instead of warriors: KDs on monks won't work anymore.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Disarm

This skill will single handly render warriors useless in pvp. If this piece of garbage doesn't get changed by release then anet is pretty much forcing me to quit because I won't be able to play the profession I use most.

FoxBat · Jul 21, 2007, 11:42 PM // 23:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackEagle

Overall, to me (of the ones I've looked at) some of them seem relatively ok, but just a few will have the greatest affect and completely shape the meta unless they're changed. But you really have to wait and see them being played and how they fit into and change the meta before you can really see how imbalanced they are.

QFT. Yeah there's your grapple and spear swipe, but theres a whole lot of suck too. (The entire ranger skills minus distracting shot? The paragon set minus anthem of disruption?) I think Factions was more of a model than NF here, a few insane skills that will be nerfed after a month or two and then everyone goes back to the same old.

Riotgear · Jul 22, 2007, 02:46 AM // 02:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Ketsu

To be perfectly honest the reason for most of the imba crap going around is not because anet wont nerf it, but because the pvp community as a whole is unwilling to try new things in an attempt to counter them.

They are always trying new things, including being forced to pack otherwise-questionable anti-gimmick I Win buttons like Vocal Minority, Mirror of Disenchantment and Divert Hexes.

Quote:

The GWEN skills have pretty good utility, but for the most part most combo's with them also have prenty decent counters to them as well.

The only counter to adding Grapple to zergway is Steadfast Soul or Ward of Stability. With Masochism fuelling OOA, Steadfast Soul is going to eat it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lodurr

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Steadfast_Soul

One more reason to run Melandrus instead of warriors: KDs on monks won't work anymore.

See above. You are right though, but for the wrong reasons:
- Smoke powder is going to mess up melee spikes... but Mel's immune.
- Withering Aura = gg perma weakness.... but Mel's immune.
- Earthen Shackles + Mark of Rodgort = Immobilized warrior... but Mel's immune.
- Disarm = Your warrior loses all adrenaline every 12 seconds.... but Dervishes don't have to rebuild adrenaline.
- Distracting Strike + Scythe = lol

Warriors are going to take it up the pooper if these skills get released as-is.