Curse

jaeharys targaryen · Aug 02, 2007, 02:47 AM // 02:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by aaero

Just as an update, we ran a slightly different build this week - mostly because a couple players just wanted to switch up the type of build they were playing, not actually because of shortcomings in the build.

Our Assassin switched out to a Reaper's Mark Necro, exactly as listed here:
http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Build:N/...ee_Necromancer

Our BSurge Elementalist switched out to a Burning Arrow Ranger, mostly as listed here (couldn't finish the build due to unlocks):
http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Build:R/...g_Arrow_Ranger

So the build was a

Reaper's Mark Hex Necro
Burning Arrow Ranger
Dragon Slash Warrior (original build)
ZB Monk (original build)

We did fairly horribly, though I think this build is actually a little stronger than the one listed in the original post. To put it bluntly, we just weren't able to kill anything (maybe because a Dragon Slash Warrior just isn't the right choice here). I have another question for the eager to help forumers here: it's most likely that the build is NOT the problem, right? I spent the majority of the night reassuring my friends that the build was fine and that we just needed to practice.

While I'm at it, if anyone wants to offer some specific strategic advice, I'm very willing to listen. I've read a lot of the old posts here and on guild-hall, so I'm familiar with basic theory, but if anyone has suggestions on how this build could be run - ie, what should each player be doing and focusing on, I'd be happy to hear it.

---

Mokone - Thanks for the Moebius build. I don't think it was the build, I think our Assassin is just in love with Shadow Prison (he also likes to complain). That build does look heavier on damage than the one he was using though, so if we switch it up then I'll have him try it out.

Skillsbas - I think that would be very effective, but for now not really an option. We can't sub a rit into the build.

pah01 - Thanks very much for the suggestions. Turns out our DS War was running 12-10-8. I very much agree that a Hammer Warrior would be a better fit for the original build if said warrior can time their knockdown well.

CareOfApathy - I don't know if the right plan is to prepare for every contingency and have an answer for it. Spreading a build too thin simply leaves it weak, in my experience.

The problem with that build is that its too pressure oriented. Pressure is essential but are you gonna kill through that? Somewhere in between the one deep wound and both attacker(war/rang) elites doing like +25 damage? SP.TS is plain excellent for taking a guy down FAST. a potential <5 second kill is nice. On the flipside, the necro is better than the ele in general. He does the ele and more. In general BA should stay in GvG though in truth theres nothing WRONG with it here. Like any ganker he's well balanced, making him relatively weak offensively. If you have a good monk you dont need such defense, only natural stride to stop interruption on res. However, BA is pretty tight on energy ALREADY, so theres not much you could fit in without depleting energy. i reccomend then:

SP/TS sin
Dslash War(though i prefer conjure cripslash, w/e you want as long as it hits)
Melee killer necro... thingy
ZB monk

=The reason i prefer conjure cripslash=
Theres RARELY RC in TA. In GvG cripslash=5 energy 100+ heal coming from the enemy RC monk. Take RC off the table, you have comparatively minimal condition removal. Especially if the antimelee lays down a something something hex on the target, your conditions will go unnoticed for a bit depending on whether the monk sucks or not.

Oh and your'e quite right about a team being prepared for anything is too weak. They suck in general.

Master Ketsu · Aug 02, 2007, 02:54 AM // 02:54

Quote:

This is also largely due to the fact that he thinks Death Blossom is a very poor skill

I would have insta-booted him after hearing that crap.

DB + Mobius is one of the strongest raw DPS combo's in the game ( possibly the strongest ) . DB Is the strongest Raw Duel attack other then BOS ( Which is conditional and only for finishing a spike ). Put it in a build with expose defenses, and put enchant remover on someone else other then the sins bar, and most monks wont be able to keep up with it for long.

Any sin who hates it probobly doesnt realize that the two skills can be spammed infinitly, in which case...like i said....you should get a new sin.

Neo-LD · Aug 06, 2007, 07:05 PM // 19:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaeharys targaryen

The problem with that build is that its too pressure oriented. Pressure is essential but are you gonna kill through that? Somewhere in between the one deep wound and both attacker(war/rang) elites doing like +25 damage? SP.TS is plain excellent for taking a guy down FAST. a potential <5 second kill is nice.

Disagreed, that build has plenty of offense and plenty of killing potential. I know because the team I usually play with uses a build very similar and has no problems throttling opponents. When you have the entire enemy team degenerating at an average of -7 each, interupts on their key defensive skills and monk, and a warrior going nuts on their softies, things die. Fast.

The suggestion to take out the ranger for a sin is completely bogus. In my experience the ranger on our team is the most dominating player/character on the field for either team - by a large margin. And you want to trade that for some idiot that will fail a combo every 20 seconds?

aaero · Aug 09, 2007, 03:58 PM // 15:58

I think running pure pressure in TA is fine, especially if you're shutting down with that pressure. That said, we didn't stick with the build with the RM necro of the warrior - instead we've been running

SP Assassin
BA Ranger
Bsurge Ele (Bsurge, Gale, Convert, Draw)
ZB Monk

I don't want to list all the individual skills, because it's definitely still a build in progress. I have convinced the assassin (who's a friend of mine, as is the whole team) to switch up to a Moebius + Death Blossom combo. It's nice for a number of reasons, not the least of which being that the target doesn't need to be constantly hexed if you want to actually deal damage.

I will say that I like the BA ranger - I don't think a replacement needs to be made there. The main reason I like it is because I recognize how strong it is even when I'm facing just a mediocre BA opponent.

I still appreciate all the responses, and if we ever come upon a final build we really like I'll make sure it's known here in the thread.

Bloodied Blade · Aug 09, 2007, 10:24 PM // 22:24

I'd dump Convert on your E/Mo and run Lightning Strike, unless you're getting a lot of mileage out of Convert. LS will give you a little more in the damage department. Lightning Bolt is also good (arguably better than LS, but I like the animation on strike and the fact that it's a guaranteed hit).

Dragon Slash bar looks alright, but personally I'd run a hammer warrior (assuming your warrior can time knockdowns well) just because the team seems to be a little lacking in shutdown (other than blind).

For the SP sin, the bar is fine, even if I don't like running assassins in 90% of pvp. Don't run Moebius, it's not the skill that people make it out to be, and don't try an assassin spike without an IAS.

For the ZB Monk- I would swap Mend Condition for Dismiss Condition (it really is a very nice spell, especially if you've pre-veiled yourself or SB'ed an ally) and drop Shield of Absorbtion for Shielding Hands. Shield of Absorbtion eventually absorbs more, but Shielding Hands lasts longer, takes less time to cast, and absorbs more sooner. Also, without dismiss you have to way to remove daze.

I personally like to run Mo/W for ZB with Frenzied Defense (it's usually used if I need to avoid a melee spike or a BHA ranger). The skill is truly spectacular if you have the reflexes to stop Expose Defenses by dismissing veil.

moko · Aug 10, 2007, 01:18 PM // 13:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bloodied Blade

I'd dump Convert on your E/Mo and run Lightning Strike

I personally like to run Mo/W for ZB with Frenzied Defense (it's usually used if I need to avoid a melee spike or a BHA ranger). The skill is truly spectacular if you have the reflexes to stop Expose Defenses by dismissing veil.

2 terrible suggestions here, sorry. both, especially frenzied, are utter crap.

aaero · Aug 10, 2007, 04:28 PM // 16:28

Yeah, the monk has switched it up to Dismiss - Mend is nice because of the unconditional heal, but my draw-er is sometimes too busy to get rid of something key. Mend is good on paper, but not so much in practice (with the skill levels of my team).

Unfortunately, I agree with Mokone (though maybe not his delivery). Dropping Convert for Lightning Strike just isn't necessary - I'd much rather have the hard counter to hex stacks with Convert than I would the mediocre damage addition of lightning strike. While I'd consider dropping convert, it wouldn't be for lightning strike.

As far as Frenzied Defense on a monk goes, it might seem to be a good skill most of the time, but the fact that there are times when it will just destroy you make it a poor skill. What if they have two Assassins running Expose? What if I don't want to keep veil on myself the entire fight for the off-chance that they might target me with a hex that renders my defense worse than useless? What if they have a non-hex method to force their attacks through (Dervish)? What if their damage is partially spell-based? This skill might be effective 75% of the time (though that seems high), but the 25% of the time it won't be effective will be the times I need it most - the teams that are skilled enough to use it to their advantage. It's conditional, and completely unusable in many situations.

One use I could see for Frenzied Defense is in combination with Healing Signet - just to see how much damage you could take from a single shot.

wuzzman · Sep 04, 2007, 04:14 PM // 16:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by aaero

Just as an update, we ran a slightly different build this week - mostly because a couple players just wanted to switch up the type of build they were playing, not actually because of shortcomings in the build.

Our Assassin switched out to a Reaper's Mark Necro, exactly as listed here:
http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Build:N/...ee_Necromancer

Our BSurge Elementalist switched out to a Burning Arrow Ranger, mostly as listed here (couldn't finish the build due to unlocks):
http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Build:R/...g_Arrow_Ranger

So the build was a

Reaper's Mark Hex Necro
Burning Arrow Ranger
Dragon Slash Warrior (original build)
ZB Monk (original build)

We did fairly horribly, though I think this build is actually a little stronger than the one listed in the original post. To put it bluntly, we just weren't able to kill anything (maybe because a Dragon Slash Warrior just isn't the right choice here). I have another question for the eager to help forumers here: it's most likely that the build is NOT the problem, right? I spent the majority of the night reassuring my friends that the build was fine and that we just needed to practice.

While I'm at it, if anyone wants to offer some specific strategic advice, I'm very willing to listen. I've read a lot of the old posts here and on guild-hall, so I'm familiar with basic theory, but if anyone has suggestions on how this build could be run - ie, what should each player be doing and focusing on, I'd be happy to hear it.

---

Mokone - Thanks for the Moebius build. I don't think it was the build, I think our Assassin is just in love with Shadow Prison (he also likes to complain). That build does look heavier on damage than the one he was using though, so if we switch it up then I'll have him try it out.

Skillsbas - I think that would be very effective, but for now not really an option. We can't sub a rit into the build.

pah01 - Thanks very much for the suggestions. Turns out our DS War was running 12-10-8. I very much agree that a Hammer Warrior would be a better fit for the original build if said warrior can time their knockdown well.

CareOfApathy - I don't know if the right plan is to prepare for every contingency and have an answer for it. Spreading a build too thin simply leaves it weak, in my experience.

moebius = assassin + pressure = garbage that belongs in ra and ab. Assassins are spikers they are not made for pressure, so stop trying. BA is nice but if sh*****t ain't going to die just stick with a shadow prison assassin or better yet use a MoR mesmer so that dragon slash warrior can actually get a kill. Dragon Slash in my personal opinion (because many will argue this), is just a pressure warrior when you really need a powerful adreline spike, even at that, crip slash out classes it with the crip + bleeding + deep wound. Your necro isn't shutting down melees as much as you think he is, reckless haste and price of failure are horrible now and not worth the energy or time. Take out reckless haste put in ward against melee subtract 2 from your soul reaping to make earth magic 8. What you want to do instead is slowing down the attack rate, take out price of failure for shadow of fear, stacking shadow of fear with faitheartness is a nice alternative. Enchanment removal should be given to the necro as well use corrupt enchantments or take rend enchantments for your missing slot. Also if you are going to take corrupt enchantments you might want to take barbs with you. Thats my two cent.