Curse

b-M-d · May 03, 2007, 03:28 AM // 03:28

I've been in many battles where it seems like people suddenly forgot how to cap, and almost everyone forgets about everything else and charges the mob repeatedly, charge mob, die, respawn, charge again and repeat. Surely, the Luxons don't mob as much as the Kurzicks, but why do some Luxons still think that mobbing is the way to win?

For those who do think mobbing is the way to win, please read this:

Mobbing puts 8-12 players of whatever side (kurzick or luxon) in one place at one time, effectively only capping at one place at one time. This leaves the 6 other shrines unattended and open to capping by opponents.

On the otherhand, by spreading out and capping, 4-4-4, the three groups can effectively cap at three separate shrines, or if need be, 1 group keeps the (most likely Kurzick) mob busy one way or another while the 2 other groups whip around the flanks and cap.

I've seen some very glorious moments in AB when us Luxons turned a 150-200point Kurzick lead into a win. Not to mention numerous matches won by Luxons taking and holding all the caps before the kurzicks even get over 100 points. ALL of those great battles were won by all three groups quickly moving between shrines and capping AROUND the mob.

Its a simple tactic that has been in use for centuries, maybe even millenia. Hence the phrase "Divide and conquer". Or as I used to always say, "Cap and move."

Perfected Shadow · May 03, 2007, 07:40 AM // 07:40

Quote:

Surely, the Luxons don't mob as much as the Kurzicks

That may be a biased assumption.

I think people mob (possibly when they're in an uncoordinated party of four) because they just get swept along with a large group. If they stray, or choose to separate from the mob and their party doesn't follow, then they get picked off by the opposing team easily. So there's also the phrase 'strength in numbers'. Splitting up is more effective in most situations though.

I've been in a situation where the enemy has capped all the shrines and the countdown for them to win was nearly up. We managed to save a capture point and then amazingly, all parties capped so quickly, the tide turned and we won from the brink of losing.

b-M-d · May 03, 2007, 09:31 AM // 09:31

Yeah, perhaps it is a bit biased, but its based solely on my experiences in AB.

Yes I'm sure some luxons mob, strength in numbers is one way to go about things, I can't say I know why, but it does seem that alot of players try not to die in ab, when in actuality, since you don't get dp and than you rez in like 10 or so seconds with full health and energy (unless you have exhaustion) dying can be used to your advantage.

Sometimes I let myself get killed when I'm low on energy, my elementalist can get as much as 108-120 energy with +2 regen, when I'm at less than 15-20 energy, it would take me several minutes to regenerate all of it back, some more often than not, especially when low on health as well, I allow myself to get killed so that I respawn at full, and have access to any side of the map (and cap away from the mob if i rez in the base)

oh, and I just have to say it, its really annoying when you have like 30 health left after an engagement and some sin comes up and kills you, and starts trash talking after... lol

bungusmaximus · May 03, 2007, 01:26 PM // 13:26

Mobbing is done by both sides, People just random-invite their way into a team and abandon it after the gates open. When alone, they get wasted, so they hop on a mob to kill stuff. Pretty dumb tactic because there's no plan, but it happens.

Sun Fired Blank · May 03, 2007, 01:40 PM // 13:40

I was actually chatting about this issue with some of the folks in AB, and we came to these quick conclusions, in summary:

- Both sides "mob"
- Kurzicks "mob" more than Luxons
- Luxons "cap" more than Kurzicks
- Mobbing always beats capping if you can't cap
- Luxons PUGs aren't very good at capping
- Luxons PUGs also scatter more than Kurzicks, which complicates the capping issue
- Kurzick players are better on average than Luxons
- Kurzicks probably have fewer amazingly bad or amazingly spectacular players
- Kurzicks tend to field better / more consistent builds on average

The Kurzicks took a great deal of ground over the last couple of days (they pushed us back to Kaanai from Grenz) and the Luxons are only now starting to recover.

b-M-d · May 03, 2007, 02:23 PM // 14:23

couldn't have said that much better than it already is Sun Fired

Riotgear · May 03, 2007, 02:31 PM // 14:31

Having played both sides constantly, I can assure you of three things:
- Neither side mobs more than the other. Kurzicks only complain about it more often, which probably has something to do with:
- Luxons have a higher win rate on Saltspray, and a higher win rate on Keys than the Kurzicks do on Frontier.
- The win rate is much closer to 50/50 in International.

I can dig out the tally, if I remember it was something around 57/43 in the American districts on Saltspray, over a pretty long period of time.

Oh yeah, and both teams' players use godawful builds, please don't bring that up, I've seen maybe two monks there that use prot hybrid builds, every other ranger has a spell on their bar (and I don't mean MT), etc.

As for whether mobbing is a "valid tactic," it's a valid tactic against a bad team when you've already got a shrine lead. If the other team screws up and suffers a lot of casualties (usually from trying to take the rez shrine outnumbered), then mobbing up on their front door kind of nails the coffin shut. I can't even count the number of games I've seen people try retaking the rez orb shrines against a constant pour of reinforcements from the rez shrine, completely ignoring the other points which can then be mopped up by 2-3 of their players.

In other words, if the other team is stupid enough to try fighting the mob, then of course mobbing is a valid tactic: They're making a stupid decision, and you're accelerating their failure. Tactics are only "invalid" when they do not lead to victory. In circumstances where mobbing leads to victory, which do exist, you'd be an idiot NOT to do it.

minor · May 03, 2007, 02:42 PM // 14:42

I don't see any point in mobbing, then again I use a burning arrow so i can take cap points solo. If i see a mob i run somewhere else and cap. One extra person in a mob make little difference, capping a point does. If the other team is all mobbed and you have most of the points capped killing there mob head to head is a decent tactic i guess.

b-M-d · May 04, 2007, 02:54 AM // 02:54

I pretty much do the same, I use a shrine storming build, totally pummels anything in aoe, except those earth ele that just wont die

(ehehehe sorry for the off topic comment, but that earth build is cool, being able to take anything everyone can throw at you, but its not good for much else, when all alone, that build of ele is at best just a distraction. It's focus on damage reduction and protection leaves little room for offensive capability.)

Llint · May 04, 2007, 03:00 AM // 03:00

Considering the fact that a single Burning Arrow ranger with a vampiric flatbow can cap everything shrine I don't see why you shouldn't mob. But that requires everyone to have a BA ranger instead of those awesome wammos...

Saborath Gilgalad · May 04, 2007, 03:27 AM // 03:27

I've been doing these ABs for about a year now on and off and I've noticed when they first split the teams into 3 teams of 4 there wasn't a whole lot of mobing goign on, adn if it was it was primarly on teh kurizick side. However as time went by more and more teams started to mob and as a result no caping woudl get done and everyone would fight in the center 12v12, thats when I quit. I quit because my old guild used to take time and plan specific builds to give us the best advantage on these AB maps and to counter what type of meta game the ab had if it even has one anymore, but when we got in there we were the only ones capping.

My view on mobing is this: it isn't as effective as staying with your teams of 4 and capping. I also must say beign a luxon the luxons can't mob half as well as the kurizcks and still win.

Capping in teams of 4 should win agianst a mob team almost 100% of the time because the mob can only be in 1 place at once while a team of 4 can be in 1 to 2 places at onces times that my 3 teams , the non mob team can be in 4 to 8 places at onces. Maybe even more depending on the build.

Another thing half the players dont get especially on the luxon side is, don't run into the mob with your team of 4, when they have 12 people plus about 20 minoins because your not goign to win. Its really frustrating to me becasue I usaully monk and I can't keep them all up.

So in closign I personally find the split stragey more fun to play because it takes planing a basic understanding of the AB game mechanic (which alot of peopel dont seem to get) and I find in my experience its far more effective in winning.

Syntonic · May 04, 2007, 07:12 AM // 07:12

While I agree with Riotgear on most accounts but I wouldn't say the other team is stupid for trying to go up against the mob since that may be the only avenue for victory. One group could/have secure(d) the victory for the whole team. I feel some people repeat a mantra of "cap cap cap" without understanding it and most people here happen to be listing out only one scenario and the view on that. I don't expect anyone or everyone to agree with me but here I go:

If the other team is in the lead with most of the shrines and have taken the res shrine, they'll probably be "mobbing" somewhere because there aren't any more shrines left to grab. I don't consider that mobbing as much as your side sucking for whatever reason (a wrong decision, bad PvPers, whatever.) This type of mobbing happens to be the most popular - where one or two or all the teams on your side continue to lose their fights and are nothing more than expensive armor paperweights. If you can't beat them in PvP or hold them off, you aren't going to win in this scenario which leads to point two.

If you are at a disadvantage or plain out losing, simply capping won't work unless you start tying up the enemy somewhere somehow. You need to gain the upper hand - the reason why you can get a come from behind victory normally means that there is a team or two tying up the majority of the opposition which allows for others to cap. If the mob isn't occupied, the whole, "cap cap cap" thing becomes pointless because they'll just cap behind you and exchanging shrines does nothing for you - the score keeps increasing every 7 seconds for the other team because they continuously have more shrines. So just saying, "cap around the mob" may not be enough since they'll overtake you since the majority of the teams on your side are normally unorganized at that point or just can't win in PvP which inevitably leads to being cornered and killed off. If both sides were at least nearly equal in terms of skill, then yes, capping around and containing would work but unfortunately, that's nearly never the case. The mentality of the majority of the ABers seems to be about shrine capping without any second thought to shrine holding/PvP.

PvP ability becomes increasingly important the deeper you push into enemy territory and no, I personally don't think giving one side an advantage in a map is a bad idea. Allowing players to still win or have a good match as a learning experience even if their PvP abilities weren't as great as the opposing side is a good idea especially since it's supposed to be an introduction into larger scale PvP. I believe you are supposed to join a team in AB and then the team has to consider team build makeup, positioning, where to go and which path to take, when to assist/fight another team and when not to, when to shrine hold, mob/split, etc.

Too bad it doesn't work out like this since all this requires people who start taking AB seriously as PvP....

Yeah, you can stop laughing now.

minor · May 04, 2007, 11:16 AM // 11:16

On a serous note I once had a 4 man guild team with a monk no less.
We tanked a mob of 8-10 most of the match and gave hardly any ground. We figured wow easy win, our team has huge advantage every else. Guess what?
They fail at capping and we lost. Its well and great to argue tactics and such but due to anets failure as a game designer at making ABs anything more than a giant RA its a waste of time. I believe every single person on these forums asked for 12man teams that would be considered TA of abs;along with the current system so everyone could get in.

Isil`Zha · May 05, 2007, 10:01 PM // 22:01

If the other team has any knowledge of playing AB at all, mobbing is a 100% surefire way on the path to utter failure.

And it pisses me off so much, there have been countless games where me and my friends are the only ones on our team capping... while the rest of our team mobs at the rez shrine or some other stupid location, meanwhile the enemy team has 3 parties capping, which is obviously something that our 1 single party could never overcome. We watch the map as we cap a point, and as we're taking the next, the last one we took is capped, while the other 8 on our team apparently sit around doing absolutely nothing.

Cebe · May 07, 2007, 07:54 AM // 07:54

Mobbing annoys the hell out of me as well. I am in a Luxon alliance and I don't think I've ever seen an occaision in AB when the Kurzicks haven't mobbed. They just naturally seem to do it, every time, without fail....it's just what they do. But basically, as Isil`Zha says, if you're in a good enough team to recognise the mobbing, you'll know to just split into 3 groups of 4 and follow the mob around capping all the shrines the enemy has jus capped will mean a pretty much easy win.

A further observation is that the luxons tend to be better in the mornings (GMT anyway), and the Kurzicks in the evenings...seems like in the evenings us Luxons suddenly start acting all stupid fighting the inevitable Kurzick mob...and in the mornings we manage to be able to form reasonably knowlegeable teams who know to just cap.

b-M-d · May 07, 2007, 08:29 AM // 08:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celestial Beaver

Mobbing annoys the hell out of me as well. I am in a Luxon alliance and I don't think I've ever seen an occasion in AB when the Kurzicks haven't mobbed. They just naturally seem to do it, every time, without fail....it's just what they do. But basically, as Isil`Zha says, if you're in a good enough team to recognise the mobbing, you'll know to just split into 3 groups of 4 and follow the mob around capping all the shrines the enemy has jus capped will mean a pretty much easy win.

A further observation is that the luxons tend to be better in the mornings (GMT anyway), and the Kurzicks in the evenings...seems like in the evenings us Luxons suddenly start acting all stupid fighting the inevitable Kurzick mob...and in the mornings we manage to be able to form reasonably knowlegeable teams who know to just cap.

Yeah feel the same way about mobbing, it makes AB stressful at times...and, I kinda of agree with you on the times also, heheh I'm at +8 GMT, mornings in the US are evening for me, and more often than not, battles do go smooth enough. Except lately (the past week) I've only seen mobbing on both sides, and as far as mobbing goes, the kurzicks win out. I think its mainly because the kurzicks mob offensively, while us Luxons mob defensively (80% of the time its to try to stop the mob.)

Oh yeah, I have a funny story, just the other day I was in a battle... and there were a few people spamming "Rezzor (not sure about the guy's name anymore) I despise you!!!" "rezzor I hate you!!!" Naturally, people would start wondering whats up with that...

It turns out that this Rezzor guy had the bright idea of getting 4, yes 4 minion masters together in one group! It was so funny that even if we lost that battle because only our group was capping, it wasnt as bad coz we couldn't stop laughing about the all mm group. hehehehe

But still, yeah, whatever the case, I do wish more luxons would stop mobbing, because from experience battles are lost so often due to people mobbing. If not that, they spend 5-10 whole minutes trying to cap a shrine...

How hard could it be to understand "cap and move FTW" ??

OH, and why oh why, do some luxons have a habit of "fighting" (by that I mean wasting all 12 luxon's time) in the middle just outside the luxon base??? We have 2 warp points in the base. Why waste time fighting the kurzick mob right outside the base? ESPECIALLY when the kurzick lead isn't that big yet, and a comeback is still possible...??

Div · May 08, 2007, 09:54 AM // 09:54

It's also a simple topic not to keep pounding on the HH-riposte-bonetti's defense tank for hours on end, but apparently a good proportion of AB is too ignorant to realize that. I'm not too surprised they behave just like mindless mobs.

bungusmaximus · May 08, 2007, 10:58 AM // 10:58

Yeah that's the most common way of wasting time I see in AB, people losing games to opponents that aren't threatening in the first place. Some people use geo-tanks on purpose just to buy time ^^. Welcome to the AB metagame :P.

hhslf · May 08, 2007, 10:26 PM // 22:26

running "geo-tanks" is tons of fun. One time on the dervish I made for abing. I tanked 9 people. it was awsome, and also easy since I had like 20 health regain. You would think people know when to move on, but GW always surprizes me.

hhslf · May 08, 2007, 10:26 PM // 22:26

running "geo-tanks" is tons of fun. One time on the dervish I made for abing. I tanked 9 people. it was awsome, and also easy since I had like 20 health regain. You would think people know when to move on, but GW always surprizes me.