Curse

Cherng Butter · Aug 26, 2007, 05:08 PM // 17:08

With the advent of an easy PvP weapon/armor creation system, I'm at somewhat of a dilemma about how to choose my weapons. Typically monks will run 8 different shields with different +10 armor mods, and will switch them around at ease depending on if they see you with an axe, use a conjure, use a form, whatever.

I'm getting my warrior PvP ready (for axes, anyway), and I've got a Vamp Axe and an Icy Axe. My question is, which weapon is more preferable for fights? (discounting conjures or attacking Rangers vs. Warriors) Should I stick with a reliable +3 damage each hit which the opposing monk (or general caster) can easily see and switch to a +10 slashing mod as a result, or use the Icy mod and keep them in the dark? (Or is there really a way to tell if you're receiving Icy damage...?) Or is there just not one set choice? (You see them using a caster offhand vs. a shield, so use vamp?)

Thanks in advance!

Thomas.knbk · Aug 26, 2007, 05:52 PM // 17:52

Use a PvP character?

2 axes is not enough to PvP. Depending on your build, you're going to want a sundering, a vamp, a zealous and an elemental.

Div · Aug 26, 2007, 05:57 PM // 17:57

Vamp for general pressure, sundering for spikes, ebon (or elemental) against warriors. It's generally not worth switching to icy since you're usually with a hammer warrior (and maybe even other damage like bsurge/orb), and the monk will have to choose between the two or just going with a -5 20%.

With caster offhand, there's definitely no need for icy, since most monks take 40/40 sets when in the caster offhand set. Not many take armor+5 vs physical.

Mesmer in Need · Aug 26, 2007, 06:57 PM // 18:57

Several axes are great for pvp. As a rule of thumb, elemental dmg vs warriors, sundering/vamp vs casters and rangers and w/e else.

Cherng Butter · Aug 26, 2007, 09:10 PM // 21:10

Thanks for the help guys! Yeah I have a Zealous Axe too, but I never really considered Sundering in PvP...guess I'll invest in a Victo's Battle Axe or something ;D

moko · Aug 26, 2007, 09:33 PM // 21:33

sundering is for the lazy ones (or those that prefer dervs over wars <_<).

zealous shouldn't be needed on most axe bars, some are only energy heavy with conjures and then you won't be able to use it anyways. /shrug

moriz · Aug 26, 2007, 09:50 PM // 21:50

sundering for pressure, vamp for spike.

why? because in a spike, you want the assured damage over the unpredictable damage. vamp fills that requirement.

why sundering for pressure? well, warrior pressure consists mostly of many minispikes strung together in rapid succession. while each minispike probably won't kill someone outright, the sudden damage spike from sundering can catch monks off-guard.

remember, consistent damage doesn't kill. sudden, unpredictable damage will.

----------

or, that's what ensign said a year ago. talk to him if you don't believe me.

Patrick Smit · Aug 26, 2007, 10:00 PM // 22:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

sundering for pressure, vamp for spike.

why? because in a spike, you want the assured damage over the unpredictable damage. vamp fills that requirement.

why sundering for pressure? well, warrior pressure consists mostly of many minispikes strung together in rapid succession. while each minispike probably won't kill someone outright, the sudden damage spike from sundering can catch monks off-guard.

remember, consistent damage doesn't kill. sudden, unpredictable damage will.

----------

or, that's what ensign said a year ago. talk to him if you don't believe me.

I think u got some things reversed, sundering has more potential for bigger damage, while vamp is more consistent. I remember the discussion vividly. Well there are many things to consider when to choose a weapon at the right moment. But sudden unpredictable Big packets of damage is caused by sundering weapons.

Div · Aug 26, 2007, 10:00 PM // 22:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

sundering for pressure, vamp for spike.

why? because in a spike, you want the assured damage over the unpredictable damage. vamp fills that requirement.

why sundering for pressure? well, warrior pressure consists mostly of many minispikes strung together in rapid succession. while each minispike probably won't kill someone outright, the sudden damage spike from sundering can catch monks off-guard.

I always thought the other way around. Why would you want unpredictable damage in pressure when you can have more consistent pressure that outputs more DPS. Pressure isn't expected to kill someone outright, but deal consistent damage to prepare for any type of spike. Sundering is used on spikes for the chance of additional damage that'll be able to kill the target. A constant spike with vamp that deals (roughly) the same damage every time won't kill.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mokone

sundering is for the lazy ones (or those that prefer dervs over wars <_<).

Sundering's still nice for bonus damage on spikes.

TheOneMephisto · Aug 26, 2007, 11:02 PM // 23:02

Both sundering and vamp can be used for both pressure and spikes.

Sundering makes more spikey pressure. Basically, it's the kind of pressure that kills things because a sundering critical eviscerate instagibs a guy at 50% that a monk was about to get to healing.

Vamp makes more consistent pressure. The kind of pressure that bottoms out energy bars.

For spikes, sundering is obvious. Sundering has lower average spike damage, but if you get lucky, it's amazing. Again, the less consistent version, but if you're going for every bit of damage you can try and fit it because they're just barely catching your spikes, a lucky sundering can make a spike.

Vamp again makes the more consistent spikes. The spikes that have more similar damage every time.

So for spikes, vamp has a higher average damage, but sundering has that extra slam every once in a while that can spike down things that vamp can't.

Relambrien · Aug 26, 2007, 11:18 PM // 23:18

Well, most of what needs to be said has been said. I'll just add one thing.

Even if you're running a Conjure bar, bring along your standard set of weapons too, because you're probably going to get stripped at some point, and you want to be able to ensure that while conjure is down, that you can go vamp, sundering, and zealous as needed.

Servant of Kali · Aug 27, 2007, 02:56 PM // 14:56

TheOneMephisto summed it up. Both sundering and vampiric can be used for spike and pressure *but* the trick is in knowing when to use which. Sometimes vamp is best for pressure... it's what I'd called "relaxed pressure". A bit later, sundering will be the best for what I'd call "aggressive pressure".

Shmanka · Aug 27, 2007, 08:39 PM // 20:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

sundering for pressure, vamp for spike.

why? because in a spike, you want the assured damage over the unpredictable damage. vamp fills that requirement.

why sundering for pressure? well, warrior pressure consists mostly of many minispikes strung together in rapid succession. while each minispike probably won't kill someone outright, the sudden damage spike from sundering can catch monks off-guard.

remember, consistent damage doesn't kill. sudden, unpredictable damage will.

----------

or, that's what ensign said a year ago. talk to him if you don't believe me.

I really only pull out my sundering at VoD....

Byron · Sep 05, 2007, 02:50 PM // 14:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas.knbk

Use a PvP character?

Agreed. Until you are completely decked out on your pve, it's better to use the pvp. Especially now, with all the rune swaps and what-not.

But, yes, you will want 4-5 different swaps depending on the weapon and build: Zealous, vamp, sundering, elemental. Furious is still okay on hammers imho, especially backbreaker bars. Each swap has its uses, and there are a dozen threads on them already. Also pack a furious spear for ranged adren building.

Neo-LD · Sep 05, 2007, 11:41 PM // 23:41

By Sundering advocate's own admission, Sundering deals less damage in general pressure and will also deal less damage in most spikes. I think that makes the decision pretty obvious, especially given that the difference between success and failure in 99% of spikes isn't whether or not a sundering activated.

-Pluto- · Sep 20, 2007, 08:05 AM // 08:05

I didn't actually believe it until I tried it a bit myself... but sundering really is pretty amazing. I don't think anyone can really understand it until they get 110 damage bull's strike followed by 120 damage eviscerate.

Hammer warriors and dervishes get even more retardedly big numbers on those sundering activations.

Vanquisher · Sep 20, 2007, 12:17 PM // 12:17

Sundering in Block Wars.

Dzan · Sep 20, 2007, 09:30 PM // 21:30

I wouldn't run vamp for a variety of reasons. That said, the debate is close enough and you can obs to see that enough top warriors run either one to make an argument.

Weapon swapping on a monk = life or death.

Weapon swapping on a warrior = waste of your attention almost always.

Farin · Sep 20, 2007, 10:34 PM // 22:34

vamp on the lord, sudering/vamp for rangers and pretty much everything else, elemental for knights/warriors, zealous if you run too much energy stuff that you need to spam (you need to actually be able to hit stuff or its worthless)

Random fact: Archers have 70 armor, knights have 80 +20 vs physical, lord has 70.

Sentience · Sep 21, 2007, 04:05 AM // 04:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vanquisher

Sundering in Block Wars.

QFT

You do more damage to yourself than the target when 1 in 8 attacks actually hit.

Vampiric ideally, sundering realistically in most cases.