Curse

erk · Sep 27, 2007, 06:58 AM // 06:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

This post is so bad I don't know where to begin.

- Expose Defenses allows one person to attack unblocked, and can just be removed.
- Most other anti-block tools suck, and for good reason: Your best anti-block skill is changing targets, blocks are SUPPOSED to discourage you from attacking the target.
- Target changing doesn't work when the entire team has permanent 50% block.
- How exactly do you suggest "learning to play against" pre-nerf hexes on Jade and ritspike? Better yet, how would you suggest to players of skill level equal to the scrubs that ran those builds, i.e. not very good?
- Yes, they are dropped off, I'm still lamenting the loss of Avatar of Grenth to this day. Oh wait...

That reply is so bad I don't know where to begin...lol.

- Carry Expose on both W/A or try running Sins on the frontline.

- Warrior's Cunning, Seeking Arrows, Fox's Promise, Unseen Fury, Way of the Fox, Guided Weapon, Guiding Hands, Anthem of Guidance are just some of the methods of negating blocks, let alone the 20+ actual unblockable attacks to add on top of that.

- Many ways of playing against hexes have been covered on this and other forums no need to repeat those threads, just do a search.

- You should be able to beat "scrubs" with the same builds as they use, but you say "I want my 2 x W, 1 x R/Mo, 1 x Me, 1 x E/Mo, LoD, SoA, Runner team I am use to". I say stiff, if 80% of teams play virtually the same builds, then there is opportunity for exploiting that similarity. A good team running a "scrub" build should be able to beat a bad team running the same build, go for it, exploit the meta!

IMMORTAlMITCH · Sep 27, 2007, 08:19 AM // 08:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by erk

- Carry Expose on both W/A or try running Sins on the frontline.

- Warrior's Cunning, Seeking Arrows, Fox's Promise, Unseen Fury, Way of the Fox, Guided Weapon, Guiding Hands, Anthem of Guidance are just some of the methods of negating blocks, let alone the 20+ actual unblockable attacks to add on top of that.

The only somewhat viable option in there is anthem of guidance, and guiding hands/way of the fox for spiking.

Quote:

- You should be able to beat "scrubs" with the same builds as they use, but you say "I want my 2 x W, 1 x R/Mo, 1 x Me, 1 x E/Mo, LoD, SoA, Runner team I am use to". I say stiff, if 80% of teams play virtually the same builds, then there is opportunity for exploiting that similarity. A good team running a "scrub" build should be able to beat a bad team running the same build, go for it, exploit the meta!

It's not about beating 'blockway' builds, it's about the amount of risk/reward involved in a lot of the passive defense skills and the general boringness of playing against builds like that.

twicky_kid · Sep 27, 2007, 01:05 PM // 13:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bankai

Actually, it is indeed impossible to cap block percentage. Unlike Speed or IAS it isn't a formula with all different factors. Instead, it first checks whether the attack is blocked by aegis, then it checks whether it's blocked by wards, then it checks whether it's blocked by SoD, etc.

It would still be awesome.

Change the formula. Have 1 check with the maximum % value 50%. I do think some skills should keep their 75% block rate though as they are usually not a problem.

You can remove the check system if they really wanted to. It will cost Anet man power, coding, and lots of hours to get it right and fix problems that come up. I dought they have the budget for such things anymore.

Lorekeeper · Sep 27, 2007, 01:31 PM // 13:31

apart from a change to the influence MoR has on otherwise balanced skills the call for fixes to heavy blocking builds is just a representation of the mediocre and totally inadequate approach we see the majority of top 100 guilds taking towards GvG and what GvG should be like.

Its seems as if people have lost all concept of the true nature of GvG. Its not totally about the build. Build determines many factors in a game, but tactical adaptability determines the other factors. If you are only prepared to fight long drawn out and static 8vs8 battles at the stand in a GvG, i think you should not be suprised that your matches result in very few deaths until VoD hits. You arent doing anything to force the issue, to force any tactical decisions. GvG is about tactics at the top levels, its about asking your opponents difficult questions as much as often. Its very difficult for 2 teams with similiar builds to force victories in head on fights, the catalyst thats needed to tip the balance is tactical decisions to force tactical mistakes. Taking risks to force mistakes. Dictating the pace and the location of battle and to force the enemy to react. Fighting 8vs8 at the stand does none of this, and so all you do is bang your heads against brick walls which have 50%+ blocking chances. No wonder GvG gets boring for you!

As far as i can see it, the biggest problem in the current meta are the fast cast wards. Defensive anthem can be interrupted by w/a, r/mo or the mes. Shields up only works against ranged projectiles. Aegis can be interrupted and removed. SoD can be removed/shamed/diverted beaten by fast target switching. The thing that is making GvG blocking builds yawnfests are the wards and generally only when they are used by the fast cast mesmers.

Now come on people, think about wards. Stop tackling the problem head on and think of other ways around it.

wards have the following disadvantages

1. They encourage balling inside the ward
2. They force static play

these 2 aspects of ward dependant GvG strat run quite contradictory to the true tactical possibilities in the GvG environment. You arent forced to fight protracted engagements, you dont have to kill anyone at the flag stand, you dont have to force a team wipe. So stop banging your heads against brick walls, the anti block skills in the game are not adequate nor efficient solutions to a heavy blocking meta. The only efficient anti blocking skill is guided weapon, but has a 2 second cast and a 15e cost.

work around the static style of play that teams using wards are forced into. A team that relies heavily on the passive defense provided by wards will not react well to significant positional changing. IE. extending to their flag runner far away from the flag stand... 3-4 man splits who constantly switch between the stand and their base or even tactical withdrawals followed by swift counterattacks.

OR how about if you know everyone is going to ball in wards... bring some aoe and punish them, force them to either soak up aoe damage (which i promise you, an LoD monk will find hard to keep up with if your mesmer hits him with a pleak from time to time), or to move outside the wards. Once they move outside you can pile on the pressure.

Basically the GvG meta is full of monks who crumble if their parties are not protected by layers upon layers of passive defense. This is either a symptom of them being crap monks or powercreep through the chapters. Instead of allowing them to play the ward camping game, do something to make them play another game.

GvG is about tactical moves. The more questions you ask of your opponents the more they have the chance to make a mistake. And its your job to punish them for mistakes whenever you can.

but good luck, now you only have 18 minute to do it!

lol gg

Lorekeeper

Vanquisher · Sep 27, 2007, 03:40 PM // 15:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by erk

That reply is so bad I don't know where to begin...lol.

- Carry Expose on both W/A or try running Sins on the frontline.

- Warrior's Cunning, Seeking Arrows, Fox's Promise, Unseen Fury, Way of the Fox, Guided Weapon, Guiding Hands, Anthem of Guidance are just some of the methods of negating blocks, let alone the 20+ actual unblockable attacks to add on top of that.

- Many ways of playing against hexes have been covered on this and other forums no need to repeat those threads, just do a search.

- You should be able to beat "scrubs" with the same builds as they use, but you say "I want my 2 x W, 1 x R/Mo, 1 x Me, 1 x E/Mo, LoD, SoA, Runner team I am use to". I say stiff, if 80% of teams play virtually the same builds, then there is opportunity for exploiting that similarity. A good team running a "scrub" build should be able to beat a bad team running the same build, go for it, exploit the meta!

Stop posting bad ideas for builds. There are reasons those skills do not get run.

Stop calling for tactics and strategy when it's simply not enough. The skills in play, and the VoD in effect, does not allow for anything like the amount of time you need.

Ego · Sep 27, 2007, 03:50 PM // 15:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vanquisher

Stop calling for tactics and strategy when it's simply not enough. The skills in play, and the VoD in effect, does not allow for anything like the amount of time you need.

Apparently this can't be said enough, since people don't get this.

So quoted for emphasis.

Thomas.knbk · Sep 27, 2007, 03:56 PM // 15:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

I think it was Squidget who noted that the real issue is threat:

It was Squidget. There was a similar discussion going on a while ago about miss chances in hex stacks, noting that reckless+price+spirit gives you an insanely high miss percentage. Someone then brought up the idea of capping miss stacks at 50%. I originally thought it was a good idea, but Squidget is totally right about it. A warrior with a 50% miss chance can't spike reliably, can spike less often, can't KD reliably (not with bull's at least) and a ranger with a 50% miss chance can't interrupt reliably, can only spread degen half as well and can't assist on spikes reliably (if he's BA). This isn't much different with a 75, 65 or 50% block chance. Your warrior will still suck.