Curse

Despozblehero · Sep 25, 2007, 12:06 AM // 00:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Patrick

I'm sorry, I did not mean to imply there are no such threads. I was simply saying making a post that says "I am not buying Guild Wars 2 because of X" is a statement to which there is no response or reaction. Saying "If ArenaNet did X better next time around, I may buy the game" on the other hand gets your point across (that you are unhappy with whatever X may be) while at the same time, stating that if it was improved, you would be enticed to buy the game. In no way was I implying there are no threads with good suggestions or ideas.

Ok so I am not buying GW2 for PvE and PvP reasons, because of the lack of skill balances for this game, the time spent on things that werent needed (i.e. Hero Battles/Party Search) in the face of things that were needed a lot more (i.e. trade system and skill balances to name a few)... I have NO faith that these thing if they ever came up in GW2 would be handled correctly...*cough*15 SECONDS!!!111*cough*... and those 2 particular issues have been talked over in threads to death yet still ignored since roughly the game/issue began). 2 chances were give by me at the cost of money in my wallet to get things right, and a 3rd by observation of GWEN, and theyre STILL not right, and in most cases still ignored IMHO... There is no next time around... in order to convince me to buy GW2 or even GWEN things in the game currently need to be taken care of...

P.S Im NOT trying to jump all over you Andrew the fact that youre even here commenting is a sign of improvement over say a year ago, but theres more improvement needed by the company

ockhams · Sep 25, 2007, 12:15 AM // 00:15

so how bout some info to make us excited about it? really if all we have to go on is conjecture based on the way gw1 is being handled, it doesn't seem all that appealing (to me at least) and i think this thread reflects that. there are still things that could fix gw1... see the "9817406591785409165 suggestions by the PvP community" on this forum, other forums, official wiki discuss pages, in game chat, etc, that are currently being ignored and maybe respond or better yet, implement some of the helpful suggestions for pvp. or i guess, just ignore the "9817406591785409165 suggestions by the PvP community" and tell us that we should be saying how gw2 can be so great. there still is this little thing called gw1, andy.

so the question "Has the way Arena.net handled the PvP community made you less likely to buy GW2?" seems fair. the answer could be "no" and it has been in some cases. it's not like he said, "why won't you buy gw2?"

but even the "yeses" in this thread seem to be giving reasons that could be construed as constructive criticism for the devs, and maybe you could release some nuggets to the community. or i guess just try to tell us to hold our breath for "years" lol.

Riotgear · Sep 25, 2007, 03:56 AM // 03:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Patrick

I'm sorry, I did not mean to imply there are no such threads. I was simply saying making a post that says "I am not buying Guild Wars 2 because of X" is a statement to which there is no response or reaction. Saying "If ArenaNet did X better next time around, I may buy the game" on the other hand gets your point across (that you are unhappy with whatever X may be) while at the same time, stating that if it was improved, you would be enticed to buy the game. In no way was I implying there are no threads with good suggestions or ideas.

If I buy a car and it breaks down at 20,000 miles, then that tells me whoever makes it sucks at making cars, and I'm not going to buy another one from them. Them telling me their next car is not going to break down at 20,000 miles isn't going to repair the broken trust, and I'm still not buying their shit.

In other words, "X" is "good support and balancing" which isn't going to manifest itself in the period that most people are going to make their buying decisions. If you want people to trust that ArenaNet is capable of providing that, then the best way to do that is to do it right now, and fix the broken shit in GW1.

If you really want to know what to do better:
- Stop making ridiculous skills that remove half of the counters to a class.
- Release critical balance updates earlier, THEN work on buffing obscure crap. Don't let problems linger so they can be rolled into one megapatch.
- Build on the game's strengths, not its weak points (i.e. releasing and promoting a PvP format revolving around AI players when the AI is awful).

Blame the Monks · Sep 25, 2007, 04:13 AM // 04:13

GW had great design, I will give them that. A lot of good thought went into the PvP system in prophecies. Even when it didn't work out 100%, it was a great platform, better than anything else I have seen in this market. And the devs cared, so initially at least concerns with balance wasn't a problem. At least in those days the devs responded to concerns and we got weeklyish patches. Then the embargo began, starting with the complete ignoring of the competitive community and failure to balance the game for an extended period.

PvP was mismanaged in the eyes of the pvp community, and the more we got ignored the angrier people got. Now that other options are here that promise not to make those mistakes, why not take them over the company that ignored us and even insulted us for 18+ months?

I have no doubt GW2 will be a solid, free version of wow pve. But I have serious doubts as if the pvp community in GW1 will be back or if anet can manage a competitive game and community. I doubt I will be back, unless fury, warhammer, potbs, hellgate, and SC2 all manage to disappoint me more than anet did.

fenix · Sep 25, 2007, 05:07 AM // 05:07

A lot of people are blaming Izzy for this, which makes me kinda sad, because as Izzy has said before, his supervisors (etc) don't let him make the changes as often as he would like. If he has skill balance suggestions, he has to go through various people to get it done, which apparently is why there aren't many balances. I imagine if Izzy had the ability to balance the skills personally, without needing to confirm things, there would be a LOT more happy PvPers...

Vaga · Sep 25, 2007, 05:24 AM // 05:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenix

A lot of people are blaming Izzy for this, which makes me kinda sad, because as Izzy has said before, his supervisors (etc) don't let him make the changes as often as he would like. If he has skill balance suggestions, he has to go through various people to get it done, which apparently is why there aren't many balances. I imagine if Izzy had the ability to balance the skills personally, without needing to confirm things, there would be a LOT more happy PvPers...

No, people stopped buying his bs a long time ago. Look at the changes he's done and the notes he puts next to them on guildwiki...stuff like "i think it would be cool if this skill saw some use", it just shows that he has little idea what he's doing a lot of the time. This is especially sad when all he has to do is listen to ensign and a few other top players who document all the changes that need to be made (since they lost faith in him).

hyro yamaguchi · Sep 25, 2007, 06:46 AM // 06:46

All the imba's the PvP community has had to work through makes you wonder why people cried so much (and are still crying so much) about Iway. Those were the good days, when a build based on pure stupidity from the opponent was seen as extremely imbalanced.

Anyway: indeed, just hiring Ensign and let him have a go at game balance, and I'm sure, even if he didn't do a full 100% the community would be a lot happier.

Icy DS · Sep 25, 2007, 07:52 AM // 07:52

I lost faith in Anet after factions was released.

I continued to lose faith in Anet due to lack of skill balance.

I lost even more faith in Anet after Nightfall was released.

I continued to lose faith in Anet due to lack of skill balance.

I lost ALL faith in Anet after GW:EN was released (from both a PvE AND PvP standpoint). GW:EN was probably the biggest disappointment in my life. I know it might sound sad I said "in my life" but let me put it this way. If you spend 26 months doing something and the finale was so...well...for lack of a better term...BAED!!! It SHOULD be disappointing. GW:EN was promised to be an expansion for level 20s with HIGH END AREAS. In all actuality, GW:EN was nothing more than presearing for level 20s.

I also think less of Anet as a company because they simply "took the cash and dashed". I think that speaks volumes about their character...I for one will never give Anet another dime. I gave them their last chance with GW:EN and thats it, no more chances from me. I will continue to play around in Guild Wars simply because I already spent the cash but I will not purchase another game/upgrade from Anet in my life.

Sinful Doom · Sep 25, 2007, 07:55 AM // 07:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

If I buy a car and it breaks down at 20,000 miles, then that tells me whoever makes it sucks at making cars, and I'm not going to buy another one from them. Them telling me their next car is not going to break down at 20,000 miles isn't going to repair the broken trust, and I'm still not buying their shit.

In other words, "X" is "good support and balancing" which isn't going to manifest itself in the period that most people are going to make their buying decisions. If you want people to trust that ArenaNet is capable of providing that, then the best way to do that is to do it right now, and fix the broken shit in GW1.

If you really want to know what to do better:
- Stop making ridiculous skills that remove half of the counters to a class.
- Release critical balance updates earlier, THEN work on buffing obscure crap. Don't let problems linger so they can be rolled into one megapatch.
- Build on the game's strengths, not its weak points (i.e. releasing and promoting a PvP format revolving around AI players when the AI is awful).

QFT

I won’t be going onto GW2. Close to quitting GW1 again due to the shear aggravation of imbalanced skills and broken mechanics that have YET to be fixed... As a side note, I'm hoping for a game to come out with the complex crafting system that SWG once had. I'd leave this mess in a heartbeat...

Blame the Monks · Sep 25, 2007, 01:57 PM // 13:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sinful Doom

As a side note, I'm hoping for a game to come out with the complex crafting system that SWG once had. I'd leave this mess in a heartbeat...

Pardon the OT, but if you are interested in a PvP focused game that has a vibrant, complex, and NONGRINDY crafting system, take a look at Pirates of the Burning Sea. The PvP has good depth and strategy, and the economy/pve is better than any game I have tried. The dev team is also outstanding, and are working hard to make PotBS the premier pvp experience on the market. I have been very pleased so far.

red orc · Sep 25, 2007, 02:28 PM // 14:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Patrick

I'm sorry, I did not mean to imply there are no such threads. I was simply saying making a post that says "I am not buying Guild Wars 2 because of X" is a statement to which there is no response or reaction. Saying "If ArenaNet did X better next time around, I may buy the game" on the other hand gets your point across (that you are unhappy with whatever X may be) while at the same time, stating that if it was improved, you would be enticed to buy the game. In no way was I implying there are no threads with good suggestions or ideas.

Where did you come from ? the moon ? oh, it's Anet.
People have been complaning about HA ever since the game started. Im not talking about skill balance or maps, but the actual way the game starts.
Anet has done nothing to fix it for 3 years now.
There are so many threads comlaining about:
"how to start HA"
"HA elitism & rank discrimination"
"Why does it take hours to form a group in HA"
"HA FOTM problem"

and the list goes on....
This is all due to the way HA battle is organized. Yet Anet failed to come with a solution. Why would it be different in GW2 ?

Bio-Flame · Sep 25, 2007, 02:31 PM // 14:31

Quote:

Vaga

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Patrick
I think a more productive topic would be "what can ArenaNet improve for the PvP community to entice you to buy Guild Wars 2." It's a bit less doom and gloom, and could actually lead to positive changes.

Fixing GW1 would be pretty good imo

QFT!
Exactly.

Andrew, do you want to know what you guys CAN do so that most of us will buy GW2?
Just fix GWs1....

Also, you guys could hire Ensign for Skill-Balancer. Hell, you don't need to hire him, just follow his balance-list.

red orc · Sep 25, 2007, 02:42 PM // 14:42

Another thing: Buff unused skills please.
It is not hard, you know all the skills that are not used.
You dont have to sell NF, so you dont have to worry that it's skills wil not own.
Just take every week 1-2 such skills from each class and buff it a little.
If it goes into the used skills, youre done. if it goes to the overused skills. nerf it back.
If it develops into some overpowered combination, nerf it back.

How hard is it ? you dont have to blalnce 100 skills at once and get all wierd side effects.

glountz · Sep 25, 2007, 04:01 PM // 16:01

/yes to the Original question.
A-Net do not know how to "slightly nerf". Either they kill completely a skill so it can't be used anymore, or either they boost beyond reasonnable. Slight nerfs (like the SoR one, even if I wonder why, or the SF damage nerf, not the burning one) are the way to go.

God Apprentice · Sep 25, 2007, 04:18 PM // 16:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

It's by EA, and there's no coverage of it out there yet that hasn't been puked up by EA's marketing team. It could very well be good, but right now it is 100% hype.

Well not entirely, it was developed by Mythic, who got absorbed by EA.

Riotgear · Sep 25, 2007, 04:22 PM // 16:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by glountz

/yes to the Original question.
A-Net do not know how to "slightly nerf". Either they kill completely a skill so it can't be used anymore, or either they boost beyond reasonnable. Slight nerfs (like the SoR one, even if I wonder why, or the SF damage nerf, not the burning one) are the way to go.

This has to do with some skills being completely broken in design, or not being balanceable without a rework. A good example would be magic DDs, which is what caused problems with Channeling and Discord: Because the attack rate on them is so low, the amount of damage needed to make them good for pressure is higher or equal to the 100-ish damage point where you can run six copies of it and 123spike with it instead.

How would you balance Augury of Death, for example? Right now it's just a castable DW time-bomb, and the fact that it teleports (which was supposed to be the point) is an inconvenient side-effect. It's a broken skill with a broken design, so why waste time on it when there are skills like Blessed Light which need some love and AREN'T full of fail?

Quote:

Originally Posted by God Apprentice

Well not entirely, it was developed by Mythic, who got absorbed by EA.

The quality of an MMO hinges mostly on its long-term support. Considering I'm having difficulty thinking of any game by EA that they didn't completely drop support for after ~1 year, why would I ever buy an MMO from them?

Good thing Anet's been providing great long-term support lately. Oh wait...

glountz · Sep 25, 2007, 05:10 PM // 17:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

How would you balance Augury of Death, for example? Right now it's just a castable DW time-bomb, and the fact that it teleports (which was supposed to be the point) is an inconvenient side-effect.

Remove teleport. It's actually a buff.
Increase energy cost to 10 and recharge to 15. To balance with Phantom pain.
The fact that it inflicts DW when <50% is quite powerful. It is really a finisher. I would also decrease its duration to 0....11...15 seconds. So either your spike lands or either it fails if Augury is not removed. Low specced Deadly arts people will be less able to take advantage of it.

LifesRestorer · Sep 25, 2007, 06:35 PM // 18:35

was there really a need to bash him cause he's trying to stick up for the company he works for? cmon give the guy a break at least he talks to us (lol wheres gaile?)

twicky_kid · Sep 25, 2007, 07:02 PM // 19:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifesRestorer

was there really a need to bash him cause he's trying to stick up for the company he works for? cmon give the guy a break at least he talks to us (lol wheres gaile?)

You have a choice of what company you work for. Should I pity him because he works for a company that has abandoned its pvp customers?

The PvP players are sick of the excuses and distraction. Anything less than progress is an insult at this point.

If Anet is out of money or doesn't have the budget to keep the maintenance up on the game they should just come out and say it. We would respect them more.

Having 1 guy do skill balance taking months on end to get an update. Then he turns around and blames his bosses for the changes not happening. Its either a finger pointing contest or they don't have the money.

The day they announced the removal of the ladder I knew that was the collapse of pvp in GW. The ladder was the only thing they had still working for them. Yes it had its problems but its much better than what we are left with now.

Nurse With Wound · Sep 25, 2007, 07:25 PM // 19:25

You guys should seriously stop with personal attacks. As you know you're free to criticize everything on guru, but lets not make this personal. It doesn't serve any purpose, and its not helping. So please stop.

On topic thoughts - hard to say, as nothing serious is really revealed now. I'll decide when GW 2 betas will be closing. But the way they handled pvp in GW1 is atrocious, I just hope that they do learn from mistakes.