Curse

suiraCLAW · Sep 23, 2007, 07:16 AM // 07:16

Yes, I'm not going to buy GW2, unless other pure PvP games with somewhat similar battle systems as GvG (Savage 2, Fury) turn out to be crap.

Zahr Dalsk · Sep 23, 2007, 07:34 AM // 07:34

I will buy it unless the 40K MMO looks to be good or it turns out that BioWare Corp IS making an MMO.

Gigashadow · Sep 23, 2007, 07:36 AM // 07:36

I will definitely buy it. It's only $50, so even if I only play it for one month, it will have been well worth the money.

Xanthar · Sep 23, 2007, 08:30 AM // 08:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vanquisher

Yes, but I'm still going to be getting GW2. No other PvP games come close to the being as good as the system in GW.

That's just how it is.

red orc · Sep 23, 2007, 12:03 PM // 12:03

No, we are not going to buy GW2, we're just going to hang around GW forum, scanning it twice a day and responding to every thread there.

Now to the facts:
Anet created a big PVP player community.
The PVP community turned up to be much more demanding and mature than average gamer community.
Anet failed to pick up the pace with the rising demands of this community.
Anet is posed in a good position to benefit from those players when GW2 comes out.
Anet will loose the players if any of the coming PVP games will be better than GW2

Right now there are 2 candidates: Fury and Warhammer online. There may be more to come.

Phades · Sep 23, 2007, 05:36 PM // 17:36

It is not just games of the same genre GW stands to lose out to. Any "competitive" game, or another game style that can arrest attention and require time GW can lose out to. Personally i see myself sinking a lot of time into Quake wars when it finally gets released and i havent really bothered watching too many other games develop aside from poking my nose into this board every once in a while.

wuzzman · Sep 23, 2007, 08:34 PM // 20:34

Fury is not better then guild wars, and warhammer is monthly fee, by all means I see players eventually buying Guild Wars 2 out of lack of choices lol. Even if all the pvp'ers made at anet right now where to not buy guild wars 2 I don't think anet would lose more then half a million.

gimmethegepgun · Sep 23, 2007, 11:38 PM // 23:38

I'll be trying a demo or friend key for it and see if it's terrible. Yes, the GW PvP system is good, it's fast-paced and it requires a bit of thought, but the most important part about it is this: Limited skill bar size. Having a maximum number of skills usable at once is just about the only thing that sets it apart from WoW and such. But all skills usable at all times, high (possibly no) level cap, world PvP? No. Cya in TR!

twicky_kid · Sep 24, 2007, 12:57 AM // 00:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by wuzzman

Fury is not better then guild wars, and warhammer is monthly fee, by all means I see players eventually buying Guild Wars 2 out of lack of choices lol. Even if all the pvp'ers made at anet right now where to not buy guild wars 2 I don't think anet would lose more then half a million.

Monthly fee effects a very small % of the market. In fact I'd rather have some kind of monthly fee so they will have a budget to work on the game instead of what we have in GW. Band aid fixes and no man power to fix anything within a reasonable amount of time.

I've said this many times before and I stick by it. If they can afford to do the game at no monthly fees why not just undercut the competition with a $5 subscription?

In any case GW2 is doomed to make the same mistakes that GW1 has made solely because of the business model. They will grab the cash and dash.

Riotgear · Sep 24, 2007, 06:38 AM // 06:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

Monthly fee effects a very small % of the market.

The lack of monthly fee was one of GW's major draws.

Quote:

In any case GW2 is doomed to make the same mistakes that GW1 has made solely because of the business model. They will grab the cash and dash.

If they copy the chapter system verbatim from GW1, then probably. I wouldn't be surprised if they're going to revise that business model though.

twicky_kid · Sep 24, 2007, 07:06 AM // 07:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

If they copy the chapter system verbatim from GW1, then probably. I wouldn't be surprised if they're going to revise that business model though.

Even with no monthly fees look at what happened to pvp. When I returned from my 8 month break my entire friend list was inactive. It was completely full I could add no more to it. People just didn't quite the game at a slow steady pace they left in droves.

Without a monthly fee system the chapter system is the only other business model they can follow. Its either subscription or chapter. Those are the only 2 options to make money.

With the subscription system they have to keep their customer's happy. With the chapter system they don't. They already have your money and don't have to work hard to keep getting it.

They will keep releasing chapters claiming its cheap with the no monthly fees. When in reality its only slightly cheaper than WoW's monthly subscription (if you bought each chapter on release for the same time duration). As years go on the game increases on its cost efficiency for the customer. On the flip side of that its not cost effective to keep the servers running for Anet. Its a slight of hand game with the no monthly fees.

urania · Sep 24, 2007, 07:42 AM // 07:42

If there will still be friends I can play GW2 with, then I'll buy it. ^_^

Monstrum · Sep 24, 2007, 07:56 AM // 07:56

im not buying GWEN, and i will not be buying GW2 since its clear ANET doesn't give a crap about the pvp community

revaer · Sep 24, 2007, 08:15 AM // 08:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

The lack of monthly fee was one of GW's major draws.

QFT. I used to think that ANet would actually bother to maintain the quality of the game after new chapter releases but after NF release I started to realize how naive I had been. Eventually I became so sick of the power creep and Izzy's utter incompetence (number tweaking ftl) that I quit GvG, and will quit GW when Fury is released.

There isn't much of a incentive to maintain balance when you don't have to think about people cancelling their subscriptions and most of the people play this game as if it was WoW without the monthly fees, ie. grinding in PvE and asking for more of the same shit.

I will buy GW2 if it only has the core professions and preferably the core skills/other concepts too. ANet also needs another skill balancer.

Rant out.

Zabe · Sep 24, 2007, 09:06 AM // 09:06

Most likely I will be buying GW2, especially interested about the facts that we could in some case get a decent PvP balances as there are different servers for PvP and PvE.

Riotgear · Sep 24, 2007, 09:13 AM // 09:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

Even with no monthly fees look at what happened to pvp. When I returned from my 8 month break my entire friend list was inactive. It was completely full I could add no more to it. People just didn't quite the game at a slow steady pace they left in droves.

Without a monthly fee system the chapter system is the only other business model they can follow. Its either subscription or chapter. Those are the only 2 options to make money.

The business model they followed not only changed to encompass account upgrades later on, but you'll notice that the price of the old campaigns has declined at an unusually slow rate. Most MMOs charge a monthly fee, but they also pack the updates in the "main package" after a while too. Part of why I found it so hard to recommend Guild Wars after Nightfall's release was the ridiculous $150 barrier to entry. It's one of the only games I can think of where the value has consistently gone DOWN.

The question becomes "how else can you keep people paying for the franchise?" The chapter system was kind of new by itself, and there are bound to be other answers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by revaer

There isn't much of a incentive to maintain balance when you don't have to think about people cancelling their subscriptions and most of the people play this game as if it was WoW without the monthly fees, ie. grinding in PvE and asking for more of the same shit.

They had incentive throughout Nightfall, the same incentive they had before it: The expansion coming out and the general need to keep people satisfied enough to buy it. While GW is almost certainly a lame duck now (they'll be able to throw a real advertising blitz at GW2), I don't think that was the driving force between the constant botched updates since Nightfall's release.

The driving force is constant clinging to post-Nightfall additions and refusal to give them anything more than token nerfs. Melandru and Paragons are fine examples, but "collateral damage" nerfs like the Diversion and Gale nerfs are another. In other words, the problem is that the post-Nightfall power creep, rather than being properly addressed, is being worked around almost as if they're afraid to admit that a lot of the garbage Nightfall brought was a bad idea.

And subscriptions certainly haven't helped WoW's balance. Warlocks are still the gods of battlegrounds and 2v2, warriors/pallies are still the gods of everywhere else, and balance updates not only come at an even slower pace, but the changes are much less significant.

revaer · Sep 24, 2007, 10:40 AM // 10:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

And subscriptions certainly haven't helped WoW's balance. Warlocks are still the gods of battlegrounds and 2v2, warriors/pallies are still the gods of everywhere else, and balance updates not only come at an even slower pace, but the changes are much less significant.

True. However, I didn't mean to compare WoW and GW in balance. In my opinion WoW isn't even a PvP game to begin with (GW was

). But now when the last expansion to GW is out, why should ANet keep its playerbase satisfied when GW2 is going to be so much different from its predecessor anyway?

I pretty much agree with the rest of your post.

DutchSmurf · Sep 24, 2007, 01:09 PM // 13:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by revaer

True. However, I didn't mean to compare WoW and GW in balance. In my opinion WoW isn't even a PvP game to begin with (GW was

).

But unlike GW, WoW did make it to tournaments like the WSVG. So to the public WoW is a mmorpg with PvP and GW is a mmorpg without montly fees. The WSVG is no longer there tho.

Servant of Kali · Sep 24, 2007, 01:12 PM // 13:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by wuzzman

I see players eventually buying Guild Wars 2 out of lack of choices lol.

My thought exactly

It's a bit sad but that's how it is. With all the flaws (and there's tons of em) with GW PvP, the sad fact is that... there's no better alternative.

notrich · Sep 24, 2007, 02:13 PM // 14:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

Fire Izzy, hire Ensign, thanks!

I would agree with that statement.

Unless a change in attitude by ANET toward PvP happens with the existing game - I probably would not buy GW2.

Here is a post from wayback where I suggested auto-balancing . It was kind of off the cuff and I was really just putting the idea out there to discuss.

Ensign responded with a post about how he didn't think auto-balancing would be a good fit for guildwars and provided a link to a company that does that sort of thing professionally.

I will maintain my position that having SOME sort of way to (either by automation or an ACTIVE skill balancing position on the anet team) re-balance skills that currently exist in the game to be useful would only make the game better.

Right now Guildwars is an ice cream store with 32 flavors, but customers only buy vanilla and chocolate - the other 30 flavors have been nerfed.