Curse

Phantom Gun · Oct 03, 2007, 02:39 AM // 02:39

I was just wondering if anybody found AB fun? Or is it just your preferred method to earn faction?

Personaly I would like a non objective based way to do this. For example take AB, and remove capping shrines. It would just be 12 vs. 12 in all out pvp mayhem. When I first started abing a long time ago, well it seems like it, that's what I thought it would be.

Boy was I wrong.

"cap cap cap!"

"avoid mobs"

"Spend all of your time killing NPC's in a PvP match".

Something just doesn't seem right here.

Sun Fired Blank · Oct 03, 2007, 05:02 AM // 05:02

Removing shrines from AB would be akin to fixing a necrotic wound through amputation (which is how A-Net fixes most problems anyways). Fixing AB relies on completely changing (in this order):

- group organization
- chokepoints (resurrection shrines, stream attack points)
- general mobility
- general shrine and NPC behaviors
- skill balance

And probably several other things that don't come to mind right now. AB is just a bloated pseudo-RA that gives you no means of strategy or tactics.

Lorinda · Oct 03, 2007, 06:26 AM // 06:26

I still like ab as it is.
But i dont mind a weekend with no npc's in it to see how that goes. There will be a lot more fighting against players then.
Then again you can just run around solo capping shrines.

Div · Oct 03, 2007, 06:32 AM // 06:32

AB had a good logic to it, but bad implementation. People say to cap shrines because that'll generally win the games. Obviously, killing other people in the right context is more useful at times, but most players aren't smart enough and would randomly c-space a target for 10 minutes.

Squishy ftw · Oct 03, 2007, 06:39 AM // 06:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

AB had a good logic to it, but bad implementation. People say to cap shrines because that'll generally win the games. Obviously, killing other people in the right context is more useful at times, but most players aren't smart enough and would randomly c-space a target for 10 minutes.

LoL, always funny when that happens, some are even smart even to follow you right back to your base defender..

And apart from some dumb PuGs you might have to play with I pretty much like AB as it is.

axe · Oct 03, 2007, 02:39 PM // 14:39

AB is pretty much the only reason I still play GW. Its just fun for whatever reason. I like the randomness. I like going in always thinking that my side will win and rarely proven wrong

I thought about how it could be "better" but I dont think that would be healthy for this arena. Its THE most casual of all the avail. options and at the same time it can be rather competitive. If they made it true 12v12 or took out the NPC's it would become as frustrating as the higher level arenas can be and would see a decline in playerbase.

The NPC capping offers both sides a "fair" shot at winning because the weaker team can try to avoid direct conflict and strategically cap. While its rare that people use real tactics to win, its becoming more common as there are more experienced players every day. The more experienced players there are the less random the battles tend to be. I think this arena has a good future if it remains the way it is now.

I honestly enjoy playing it even though the rewards are "meh" I play for the fun factor over more "rewarding" forms of PvP.

Some of the suggestions that I have read in the past are VERY interesting to me and I would love to test out this particular option.

Someone suggested that when you zone in an AB you should start at the begining zone (deep in your own territory) where you have a map advantage and then you have to win, where you travel to the next map and continue pushing into enemy territory as you win consecutively, a loss pushes you back a map and basically the goal is to get to the very end map of the enemy territory. Obviously faction bonuses increase as you keep getting consecutive wins, but they also suggested a HoH style chest at the end map. When you win on the end map you continue playing at that level until you get pushed back. Something like that would be really fun. Each time you advance you end up in the party formation zone so that anyone that needed to leave or deposit faction could do so, anyone that was in a team that made it that far would also be in the zone waiting for more players to make it to the zone.

Anyways thats what I remember of the suggestion, sounded fun and still casual to an extent.

Zui · Oct 04, 2007, 05:05 PM // 17:05

Axe, I don't think you know what you're talking about. Alliance Battles are not even close to "competitive." First, the overwhelming majority of people who play Alliance Battles are 1) Terrible at the game (aka pve scrubs) and 2) Have no coordnation even among their own squad.

On average, the player knowlege of tactics is very low. You have the random noobs who mindlessly try to kill people. Then you have the random noobs who mindlessly try to capture shrines. That's about 99% of all the players right there.

Most of the players run terrible builds, and don't even understand very basic concepts like spamming flare through backfire is a bad idea, and bringing flare in the first place is a terrible idea.

Probably the biggest factor (there are several I haven't listed, and don't plan to list) that prevents ABs from being competitive is at the very most, you can effectively coordinate with 1/3 of your side. Randomness makes high level competitive play impossible. In a game like Chess, there is no real randomness, except maybe who gets to be white, which is such a minor factor it rarely if ever has an influence on who wins a game at top levels. Now, imagine that every move, a square on the Chess board was randomly chosen. If any piece was on that square, it'd be treated as being captured. Chess as a result would suck, and depend more on luck than skill to win. It wouldn't be devoid of potential, and ABs certainly are not, but it'd suck enough that no serious competitive player would bother with it. That's basically the situation of Alliance Battles right now. The randomness negates skill so much, that skilled players don't even bother playing.

Although, I think ABs can be "fun" sometimes. I have very fond memories of playing a Touch Ranger with Ensign while Divine was on Crippshot. Ahh, good times...

SeraCombi · Oct 04, 2007, 05:12 PM // 17:12

AB is still fun to me. i often find myself there, trying out new builds.

i also think a free-for-all type battle would be fun...meaning...no sides, just every char for himself...with an RA-style or staggered entry to discourage pre-formed teams....

..and then you could have on-the-fly whispered pairings which would be fun:

Monk: hey want to team up?
MM: ya
Monk: eggselent

axe · Oct 04, 2007, 05:46 PM // 17:46

Zui,

I think you misunderstood what I was saying. I said it "can be rather" competitive. Meaning at times the randomness of the game actually pairs 2 extremely good teams against each other. While rare, it does happen.

To go on what you are saying, if all the AB players are EQUALLY SKILLED (you use the word bad but that is coming from one of the top players in the game, its hardly fair to compare AB battles to top level GvG), wouldnt that make for a competitive situation? Meaning players on near equal skill level would actually find it competitive to try and beat others of equal skill.

The fun part is when some teams are actually very good and coordinated. I can only imagine what your team did when it went in with such high level pvp'ers.

My point is just that keeping the arena casual keeps it fun, it serves its purpose which was never to replace GvG or HA but provide an arena that is casual, simple to play in and fun. I think its fun which is really the point of this thread.

High level PvPers may not find it fun if the skill level is less than they are acustomed to, but I dont think thats the point of AB. When I see how active it is in there, I have to believe that something was done right with this arena.

I do think that if they could work in consecutive wins and advancing through the maps in a different way, it would push it towards becoming more competitive and in the direction of higher level PvP.

BlackSephir · Oct 04, 2007, 05:47 PM // 17:47

Ab is sort of like bigger RA- thanks to all sorts of people it's fun ;d
I'm always laughing when I see '1vs1' or 'stop running noob!1'

Alex the Great · Oct 04, 2007, 09:58 PM // 21:58

i hate shinres, i wanna see some *holy cross purification ritual*

WoW battleground gameplay

i tried the free trial of WoW and the game was boring as shit, but the battle grounds were fun.

and the funny thing is in AB, an efective mob has beaten a cap team many times ime, such as when i play luxon in the double point weekend lol (we got murdered)

Lorinda · Oct 05, 2007, 05:50 AM // 05:50

Ok lets keep it simple.
If i want to have fun, ill go play AB and laugh my head off whenever all those 1vs1 and noob sin when you just killed one comes up.

If I want to get bassed on and flamed and abused in chat ill go play HA.

Thats the differents between the 2.

bungusmaximus · Oct 05, 2007, 06:14 AM // 06:14

AB owns, we have some sort of standard team we always play with which is tons of fun. Lots of laughs and bloody murder

.
Usually I try to play a little strategically, see if we can pull it off to win on the harder maps (etnaran keys is my favourite, I play kurzick).

Mithie · Oct 05, 2007, 02:31 PM // 14:31

How to make AB more competitive:

1. Let us put together 12 player teams, or at least 6 player teams, if LoD spamming gets to be a problem. This would actually ATTEMPT to bring some organization into buildmaking and strategy organization instead of randomly grab 4 people and hit enter.
2. Lock the capture points from changing ownership until the previous set of capture points have changed ownership. For example, on seaside, unless the res shrine closest to the middle is captured, the points behind it are "locked" and cannot be captured. This would encourage players to fight each other head on and score kills in order to advance, instead of just running around trying to avoid everyone and blitz shrines, making poor gameplay, in my opinion. You'd still have choices because every set has at least 2 attackable points, so it's not like you'll be forced to engage 12 v 12 in this manner.
3. Make it so that you res only every 2:00, just like in GVGs, but without the death penalty. This will actually force smart play, make minion masters less dominating, and force people to res.

Sun Fired Blank · Oct 05, 2007, 06:49 PM // 18:49

Twelve player teams and locking capture points doesn't help the problem. That would break the format.

Steboy93 · Oct 05, 2007, 10:17 PM // 22:17

I like Ab, gives me chance to relax, work on a title, and pwn some noobs

The Stormbringer · Oct 06, 2007, 04:07 AM // 04:07

I like AB the way it is now, the only problems come with leechers (this is on way to getting better, but still not good enough), leavers (dishonorable, meh), and of course the idiots we've all had on our team or the others in ab. We've all met them, the touch ranger or sp sin that goes "PWNED NOOB!!!!!1111" every time they kill someone, or the fool that goes, "Get ret ready to get *censored sexually explicit* Luxons/Kurzicks!!!" As a Luxon I see plenty of these retards, and as such have come to the only way to permanently fix ab: An Idiot Filter.

All jokes aside, they could dictate which ab teams a person can enter based on rank, like no rank - rank 3 all play each other, then rank 4 and up (there could be another division but eventually there wouldn't be enough as the ranks increased). This rank division would help cut down on the amount of noobs in ab. In this system lower ranks could AB with the higher ones (their friends) by a rank 6's or higher consent, because by that point I'm pretty sure they wouldn't want noobs in their team.

Perfected Shadow · Oct 06, 2007, 12:25 PM // 12:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Stormbringer

I see plenty of these retards, and as such have come to the only way to permanently fix ab: An Idiot Filter.

All jokes aside, they could dictate which ab teams a person can enter based on rank, like no rank - rank 3 all play each other, then rank 4 and up (there could be another division but eventually there wouldn't be enough as the ranks increased). This rank division would help cut down on the amount of noobs in ab. In this system lower ranks could AB with the higher ones (their friends) by a rank 6's or higher consent, because by that point I'm pretty sure they wouldn't want noobs in their team.

AB wouldn't be as entertaining.

Tutis Evito · Oct 06, 2007, 01:55 PM // 13:55

I to like AB, during the week i dont have time to get into adventure so AB and RA is fun to do

longhornrob · Oct 08, 2007, 05:13 AM // 05:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tutis Evito

I to like AB, during the week i dont have time to get into adventure so AB and RA is fun to do

With AB I can add to my title to make the pve skills stronger, gain balthy faction to unlock skills so I can get ahold of them earlier in pve, and make numerous friends. It also lets me test out different builds with different characters. I definitely enjoy playing AB, moreso than any other aspect of the game.