Curse

Chicken Ftw · Sep 19, 2007, 04:41 PM // 16:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by audioaxes

bow damage is NOT useless and its well worth sacrificing some max health in AB where battles generally dont have organized teams that will spike you and theres no DP

...

What part of "most of the cripshot's damage comes from degen" do you not understand? Cripshot's role isn't about damage anyway, if it were, you'd play another bar. Its role is to harrass and annoy the other team, slowing them down, preventing them from capping and occasionally scoring kills. It's not worth sacrificing hp for the small damage gain. Period.

LifesRestorer · Sep 19, 2007, 10:13 PM // 22:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by audioaxes

bow damage is NOT useless and its well worth sacrificing some max health in AB where battles generally dont have organized teams that will spike you and theres no DP

someone forgot to read the guide before posting.

Alex the Great · Sep 19, 2007, 10:23 PM // 22:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

this guide (and the next guide which i will write later) will focus on how to play the ranger in ABs. this guide will focus on the cripshot, the next one will focus on the BA ranger. these two builds are the only viable pvp ranger builds. if you disagree, then go delete the game.

.

ONLY VIABLE RANGER BUILD???

ever heard of a ranger spike team?
RaO thumper?
i guess u could use broad head arrow also
and i once played a EL beastmaster in AB (fun...no that effective)

rangers have more than 1 viable build choice man

Chicken Ftw · Sep 20, 2007, 12:54 AM // 00:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex the Great

ONLY VIABLE RANGER BUILD???

ever heard of a ranger spike team?
RaO thumper?
i guess u could use broad head arrow also
and i once played a EL beastmaster in AB (fun...no that effective)

rangers have more than 1 viable build choice man

Ranger spike team requires an entire team's bar being dedicated to it, this guide is mostly for single players on their own. Not only that, the AB environment isn't really conducive to ranger spike. RaO is shit now. BHA is shit for AB. Beastmasters suck everywhere.

Before you post, read the entire article. You might learn something and not come off sounding so uninformed and ignorant.

distilledwill · Sep 20, 2007, 11:20 AM // 11:20

Havent been on this thread in a while...

I'd agree that BHA is a difficult build to run in a fast paced AB as the arrow is so easily dodged.

To the OP: I'm still maintaining my stance that you can't claim these two builds to be the ONLY viable AB ranger builds. Change that one line and I'm with you all the way! Yes, cripple + kite can remove several silly wammos from the fray for a while, and distract them from capping/mobbing, but another effective method is wiping them out and sending them back to their base crying. Which is why builds such as the packhunter, touchers, poison arrow, glass arrows, conjure/kindle, maybe even ranger sins (?!), are still up there with the cripshot.

ok, maybe not ranger sins

moriz · Sep 20, 2007, 12:19 PM // 12:19

are those builds effective? yes. are they MORE effective? no. with the possible exception of the invinci ranger (aka escape ranger, but only on ancestral lands and the luxon equivalent, with with 3x attack shrines allowing escape to be up forever), the cripshot and BA rangers are the most effective.

a ranger's greatest strengths are: degen, interruption, disruption, and snaring. you can exploit their expertise attribute and get middling damage out of them, but i'd rather utilize their true strengths to maximum effect.

distilledwill · Sep 20, 2007, 01:05 PM // 13:05

Thats fair enough, and I might be inclined to agree with you if your OP said "The most viable ranger builds to run in AB" but it doesn't.

I don't want to repeat myself, but even after admitting they are effective, I would argue that some of the above mentioned builds work as well, and, depending on how you play them, they may work better.

Its all relative. Either way, nice guide. see you on the battlefield. :P

moriz · Sep 20, 2007, 02:41 PM // 14:41

yeah, and everyone will be more effective than you. you truly are very "special".

in an environment where everyone and their mother runs some form of self heal, -7 degen on everything is an annoyance at best, utterly useless most of the time. in fact, given the low refire rate of bows, the best you can hope to do is to degen on 3 people, since by the time you hit your 3rd, the duration on the 1st would run out. that's assuming you'll be doing something useful at the same time, like interrupting.

it all goes back to the First Golden Rule of Build-making (tm): if there's something better, then don't bother.

imblo · Sep 22, 2007, 05:49 PM // 17:49

I'm of the opinion that cripshot has lost a lot of its effectiveness since the introduction of nightfall and mending touch. Certainly the recent crip-shot buff from 15 to 10 energy acknowledges the loss in effectiveness.

Personally, I'd prefer a BA ranger with pin-down to a crip shot ranger in ab. Even with the long recharge of pin-down, I find it serves its purpose well enough, whether it's stopping a pesky sin from getting away, or allowing your support casters to kite more easily from the melee characters.

While cripshot would allow you to have a whole opposition team pinned down, I don't really see the point when you could be off capping, or even killing the team instead.

Cripshot handles touch rangers well, but most of the time in AB, you'll find your other team mates will simply try to toe to toe, a few plague touches later, no one is the wiser.

IMO Cripshot and BA have pretty similar potential when it comes to pure pvp, but ability to solo cap quickly puts BA over the top in AB. While burning can be removed readily, it applies its damage quickly.

moriz · Sep 22, 2007, 06:01 PM // 18:01

the ability to snare an entire team of 4 with a single character is very valuable. as i said in my original article, sacrificing one character to make four opponents cap less effectively is an extremely good trade off.

while a BA ranger brings terrific damage and disruption to the field, the cripshot can up it to the next level. a well-played cripshot's party-wide defensive effect is similar to that of a prot monk: snaring that SP sin as your teammate runs away and you've just protted against 600+ damage. similarly, a well-played cripshot can dramatically increase the offensive power of any group it gets into by snaring/disrupting opponent defenses. while a BA ranger can do the same, the cripshot can do it much better.

lastly, with regards to capping and straight-up damage potential: with the introduction of GW:EN and sloth hunter's shot, the cripshot's damage potential is now comparable to that of a BA ranger. thus, their ability to cap is not that far behind that of a BA ranger.

i'm now going to sumerize the major difference between a cripshot and a BA ranger: the BA ranger can fight the battles, the cripshot can control the outcomes.

iridescentfyre · Sep 22, 2007, 06:45 PM // 18:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by imblo

I'm of the opinion that cripshot has lost a lot of its effectiveness since the introduction of nightfall and mending touch. Certainly the recent crip-shot buff from 15 to 10 energy acknowledges the loss in effectiveness.

True in theory, but I really only see R/Mo's with Mending Touch frequently enough to consider it an issue. None of the people whom Crippling Shot hurts the most seem to carry condition removal often.

Quote:

Originally Posted by imblo

Cripshot handles touch rangers well, but most of the time in AB, you'll find your other team mates will simply try to toe to toe, a few plague touches later, no one is the wiser.

Also true; however the issue there is that your teammates are retarded, not that Crippling Shot is ineffective. In these circumstances, I usually just sit back and wait for the toucher kill off the idiots who stand still for them. If you have teammates like that, you're better off soloing anyway.

longhornrob · Sep 23, 2007, 07:15 AM // 07:15

How do you deal with SP sins? I got smoked a few times when I tried this build out for the first time, and it seemed most of them were by SP sins. I'd cripple them, but the SP prevented me from getting away also. It also knocked off Natural Stride.

moriz · Sep 23, 2007, 07:36 AM // 07:36

the trick is to put up natural stride after they use SP. or if you feel up to it, dshot them in the face as they activate their black lotus strike.

another trick to consider is to watch their movement while staying just beyond casting range from them. when they want to spike you, they'll make a beeline straight at you. then just shoot an interrupt as soon as they get within recurve bow range. with a good connection speed, they'll eat an interrupt to their SP and you can plink them to death at your leisure.

longhornrob · Sep 23, 2007, 08:11 AM // 08:11

Ah that makes sense. I think my problem so far is for whatever reason the button I setup up for Target Next Foe isn't working. In other words, all I have to go on to see who I'm approaching is the Target Closest Foe button. That and clicking on individual targets, which I'm still not good at. I've been able to get away without the TNF button so far, but it's proving to be an invaluable tool for this build.

Abedeus · Sep 23, 2007, 08:19 AM // 08:19

Use recurve bow, shoot him with cripshot and when they jump to you, try to run away. Sins don't invest much in Deadly Arts, so it lasts maybe 4-5 seconds. Hit natural stride and use a second of advantage to further cripple him. Then just run around and degen him to death ;d
Or just be lucky and interrupt first and third attack. First is Black Lotus, you interrupt it, sin has little energy for heavier combo, he uses Horns of the Ox/Twisting Fangs, they fail, he uses Black Spider and you interrupt it (you can't interrupt two attacks in a row due to aftercast, so don't even try, or you will waste interrupt), so he can't use Blades of Steel. Then he can just attack you with daggers, so you can use it to... cripple and fight with him ranged vs melee. You win, sin moans and cries.

Longasc · Sep 23, 2007, 08:29 AM // 08:29

This is what I do:

I do not use Natural Stride, I run almost constantly with Storm Chaser. You can really do with the last two skill slots whatever you want. Take a running stance of your choice and something else. If you do not have any monk with you, you should take Troll Unguent ofc.

I use a Crippling Longbow in addition to the Crippling Recurve, sometimes you need the range. I also believe in bow damage. There is little point to lower it so much just to get more poison duration if you re-apply it almost constantly.

Master Ketsu · Sep 24, 2007, 04:28 AM // 04:28

Good posting this with "how to use guide". I remember cripshot from way back in the days of gvg before the title system....fun fun... ( /misstheolddays ).

It would be nice for all builds posted to have usage explanations...their are far too many great builds out their that go unused in pvp for the simple reason that their use isnt totally obvious.

distilledwill · Sep 24, 2007, 01:04 PM // 13:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Ketsu

Good posting this with "how to use guide". I remember cripshot from way back in the days of gvg before the title system....fun fun... ( /misstheolddays ).

It would be nice for all builds posted to have usage explanations...their are far too many great builds out their that go unused in pvp for the simple reason that their use isnt totally obvious.

I agree, its nice to have a well documented "how to" guide to well established builds.

moriz · Sep 28, 2007, 03:50 AM // 03:50

to celebrate me getting my new laptop, i've frapsed a short video of me playing the cripshot. the match was much too short for me to demonstrate any of the more tricky tactics (luxon on kaanai canyon is a poor choice of map), but the video does show some of the tactics involved in playing a cripshot.

here's the youtube version: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1ldlj46u4w
the quality is dreadful, but it's the best i could do with my nonexistent experience with video editing.

here's the HQ version: http://www.ravensky.org/moriz/AB_cripshot1_HQ.wmv
file size is 52mb. the quality is much better.

much thanks goes out to yanman.be for helping me sort all this out, and ravensky for hosting the HQ version.

Faer · Sep 28, 2007, 04:18 AM // 04:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorinda

(where the better players are, since kurzicks only run for faction)

Whatever argument you were trying to make was just invalidated. There's no difference in skill between the Luxons and Kurzicks; It's all about individual skill. But you're just another AB addict who thinks 1v1 and mobbing are pro tactics, and running away from an unfair fight makes a person a "noob".

I can tell, because you are a Luxon.

cwutididthar?