Curse

moriz · Jul 28, 2007, 04:54 PM // 16:54

this guide (and the next guide which i will write later) will focus on how to play the ranger in ABs. this guide will focus on the cripshot, the next one will focus on the BA ranger. these two builds are the only viable pvp ranger builds. if you disagree, then go delete the game.

The build

the attributes of the two ranger builds are the same:
exp: 12+2
wild: 9+1
marks: 9+1
prot: 3

cripshot:
crippling shot {e}
hunter's shot/sloth hunter's shot
distracting shot
savage shot
mending touch
apply poison
troll unguent
natural stride

weapon 1: crippling recurve bow of fortitude, 15^50 (or equivalents)
weapon 2: -5 energy sword/axe of fortitude, +30 hp shield
weapon 3: crippling recurve bow of fortitude, +5 energy (or equivalents)
weapon 4: longbow/flatbow with +30 hp of your choice.

The mindset
take whatever concept of AB you have currently and throw it out the window. specifically, do not attempt to solocap with this character unless there's nothing else for you to do. what this character can do is become the most annoying pain in the ass possible. instead of thinking: "how many shrines i can capture", think: "how many of my opponents i can annoy/slow down into not capping".

Player skills required
this character is simple to play but difficult to master. as such, you'll need to be reasonably skilled with interrupting and need to have superb battlefield awareness. you'll need to use every single trick invented to be successful with this character (strafing, hiding behind objects, running away, specifically running away).

The characteristics
the cripshot is the ultimate survivor. it is quite easy for a cripshot to not die a single time in ten matchs. it is resistant to conditions and degeneration hexes, it can outrun just about anything out there, and it has the best ground controlling ability in the game. everything about the character can be geared into repelling/killing any opponent. although its damage is quite pathetic, its ability to interrupt and snare opponents have gotten me through many sticky situations. now however, you must be asking: "why is this character so good, if it can't kill and can't cap by itself?"

Playing to the character's strengths
this character still remains a low profile in ABs, despite being such a dangerous character. while it doesn't have a lot of damage, it does have: the best survivability in the game, and the best ground/movement control in the game. to that end, play to slow down/draw away your opponents. snare them to make them move slower, and attempt to make them chase after you. the more, the better. because when they are crawling at a snail's pace and chasing you (at half speed) across the map, they are not killing anyone (which means less points for them) and not capping (which means even less points). if you can get a group of 3 or more chasing you, that means your side now have a 11 vs 9 advantage everywhere else on the map, a very favourable situation. similarily, if you can snare an entire group of 4, that means your opponents are essentially fighting 8 vs 11.

while it's true that this character cannot put out any amount of damage, its dueling ability is almost the same as the BA ranger. it has degen, it has an unblockable snare, it has interrupts flying out of its butt, and it's resistant to conditions and most degen hexes. in a 1 vs 1 situation, or even a 1 vs 3 situation, you should have no problem dropping one or more of your opponents.

there will be times when you will be completely outmatched. that is natural. in that situation, make use of the character's excellent mobility to run away. that's right, run away. there is no honour in staying, and all you'll be doing is giving your opponents a free point by standing there and fighting. snare the key targets, and run away as fast as possible. try to get your teammates to run away as well, but if they are to stupid to do so (most of them are, btw), then leave them there to die. master this trick, because you will be using it alot. however, don't just run away mindlessly. if possible, try to run towards a shrine that your side controls (specifically the elite elementalist shrine or the necromancer shrine. those two are extremely nasty). with the aid of those NPCs, you can fight off ridiculous numbers of opponents. once i fought off a group, repeatedly, from the necromancer shrine for the entire match. we obviously won because my opponents were fighting 8 vs 11 everywhere else on the map.

while this is an excellent solo character, it can instantly increase the effectiveness of any group that it joins. don't bother too much about staying within your own group, because it doesn't really matter. if you wish, you can run up to join any group that are out there capping and increase their fighting ability with your snares and interrupts. this character is especially good if paired with with melee characters.

Conclusion
the cripshot ranger is one of the most dangerous, and surprisingly low profile, characters in AB. it is a character that greatly rewards player skill, and a reasonably skilled player can dominate and turn the tide of the entire match.

my next guide will be on the BA ranger. i shall describe a few more common tricks to aid you.

NEW: video(s?)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1ldlj46u4w low quality version
http://www.ravensky.org/moriz/AB_cripshot1_HQ.wmv HQ version. 52mb. thanks to ravensky for hosting it.

ShadowsRequiem · Jul 28, 2007, 05:11 PM // 17:11

I'd say go 14 exp, 13 marks, 9 wilderness.
using a sup rune in exp doesnt hurt, the idea is you will hardly ever be hit by a melee char, even if they use displacement skills u can still get away.

I've been playing crip shot for about over a year, gotta say most fun to play in ab. Imo a Cripshot can easily solo cap shrines, even warrior shrines, thats why you have distracting shot.

moriz · Jul 28, 2007, 05:18 PM // 17:18

there's no point lowering your defense for such a tiny gain in damage. most of your damage will come degen anyways, your attribute spread lowers that as well. in fact, i have no problem running around with a bow that does only 1-3 damage, because the bow attack damage really doesn't matter.

as for solo capping: yes, cripshot can solocap, but it takes a long time and there's better things to do with that time. solocap if there is nothing left to do, but you'll do much better by snaring and fighting groups than capping.

Saphatorael · Jul 28, 2007, 05:31 PM // 17:31

Heh... I just got into cripshotting (capped it on my new ranger recently) for ab's, and now I see a guide up here, explaining how I play...
Even the attributes and runes are the same ^^ (Only difference is Hunter's Shot, I bring Screaming)

Though I disagree with your statement that Cripshot and BA Ranger are the only viable builds. (But I don't play anything else, tbh

)
There's the almighty toucher (haven't played that one in months), the thumper (gotta stay with a group, though, and adrenaline charging can be a pain), or just a Rangerspike team (never tried it, never will, but I've gotten killed a few times by it).

moriz · Jul 28, 2007, 05:42 PM // 17:42

well, the touch ranger and the thumper are realistically not rangers (the thumper is pretty gimped now. it's finally worse than a hammer warrior. the touch ranger is really a necro dressed up as a ranger), and the ranger spike build is not very independent (can't spike without the others spiking with you).

perhaps i should say the BA and cripshot rangers are the only completely viable ranger builds, in that they are not one trick ponies and can actually adapt to different situations.

moko · Jul 28, 2007, 06:49 PM // 18:49

both BHA and Poison Arrow/barbed and even Prepared Shot are very powerfull skill templates for a ranger also; they would be the other 3 viable bars i'd consider usign -- however not in Alliance Battles, so your point stands. ;p

Cripshot is by far my most hated skill (or crapsh** as i call it >.>) so i'll most likely never play it again, but if i do i'll review this and follow it. :P

defending shrines in AB is always terrible easy; i used to do it as BA, but i suppose it's even more fun as cripshot.

i also agree on your solo capping argument. while you are able to solocap, it takes way too long, and you arent following your main purpose at playing defensively.

the only time you should really go capping is when there's a full mob (all 12 players) because you will NOT manage to lure or distract any of these from staying in a mob.

anyways, gogo BA guilde. :P

ShadowsRequiem · Jul 28, 2007, 07:19 PM // 19:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

there's no point lowering your defense for such a tiny gain in damage. most of your damage will come degen anyways, your attribute spread lowers that as well. in fact, i have no problem running around with a bow that does only 1-3 damage, because the bow attack damage really doesn't matter.

as for solo capping: yes, cripshot can solocap, but it takes a long time and there's better things to do with that time. solocap if there is nothing left to do, but you'll do much better by snaring and fighting groups than capping.

explain how you are lowering your defense?
you have 10 in wild for you will have around 5 seconds in natural slide, which doesnt even help at all if you tigger it to early. Your defense is your interrupts as you can easily d shot sins lead attacks.
running 9 in marksmanship doesnt do much yes, but at 13 you get lil better dps and still have enough for 2 in prot, yes 3 in mending touch hardly does anything since your main source of healing is troll.

If you mean defense as in overall life? then run survivor insignias, you shouldnt have to run radiants now that crip shot is back down to the original 10 energy.
imo if you need more life while playing crip shot and your defenses are low, you're doing something very wrong.

13 marks = crit hit of 57 dmg on 60 al thats a 15^50 +20% avg around 34
10 marks = crit hit of 46 on 60 al 15^50 +20% avg around 29

so i'm wondering where this 1-3 dmg points comes from? are you just looking at your skill dmg? cause you're obivously really wrong.
you're crip shot also lasts for 6 seconds instead of 7, and you're doing much less dmg.

moriz · Jul 28, 2007, 08:21 PM // 20:21

i've said it once and i'll say it again: much of a cripshot's damage comes from degen, not straight up arrow attacks. i would never intentionally sacrifice 75 life for such a pitiful gain in attack damage.

as for the 1-3 damage comment, it's just to illustrate the complete indifference i have in actual direct damage. because running a 1-3 damage bow won't matter for me at all, because i'm already playing to the character's strength, which are ground control, mobility, and degen.

and i'll say it a final time: bow damage means nothing to a cripshot. if it means anything to you, you are playing it wrong. also, i won't sacrifice all that just for 1 more second of cripple. i have a crippling bow for a reason.

TheOneMephisto · Jul 28, 2007, 09:07 PM // 21:07

Moriz is totally right on the attributes debate. Bow damage is useless, and a 1 sec cripple isn't worth 75 health either. If you're going to sacrifice health for anything, I'd rather give up 35 health for expertise, depending on how much you want to spam cripshot when faced with 3-4 opponents or while in big battles.

Your tradeoff is basically -75 health and -1 sec natural stride for 1 sec cripple.

Patrick Smit · Jul 29, 2007, 10:16 AM // 10:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

this guide (and the next guide which i will write later) will focus on how to play the ranger in ABs. this guide will focus on the cripshot, the next one will focus on the BA ranger. these two builds are the only viable pvp ranger builds. if you disagree, then go delete the game.

You suffer from mental tunnelvision, NOI intended and you might be very good at playing ranger builds, most likely, that one in particular. This limits you from experimenting with new skillbars, because at first you will perform less, whereas your "superior" skill bar can be played almost blind by you. This is all because it is automated in your mind, but I can assure that there many more ways to play and win, especially in AB where it is certainly not PvP alone, so much depends on the team(s) that your efforts to maximize might actually impair you to synergize with others. There are so many ways to counter that ranger build, that you alone are not gonna make the difference.

If you care to build a constructive discussion you will actually refrain from statements like this, because they inhibit any constructive criticism, much like bad scientists and religious zealots like to do because they think they are right. There is no such thing as a unique and universal "law" or rule in order to describe a topic, and many roads lead to Rome.

The build you propose may be very annoying to other players, but not very effective against NPCs. NPCs do not need to be crippled and the only thing that kills them fast is damage, eventually/possibly combined with some complementing utilities.event heals and/or damage.

Now I will continue to read your guide and maybe/hopefully learn something from it

Ok in general agree with you, but I personally feel that the build is based too much on PvP and essentially even on bad habits in PvP or AB. You are proactively luring away people which in itself is not a bad tactic in AB as many people will bite (this is due absence of any spark of common sense). But you also cripple your own team by your absence. The solocapping ability of this build is there, but it aint shining over, for example, a firenuker or barrager. The unconditional degen damage is only 8 health per second (on multiple targets), whereas, for example, a barrager does much more damage per second on multiple targets (NPCs I speak), he can supplement himself with additional enchantments for extra damage. The conditional damage from hunters shot will often not be triggered on NPCs.

However, in the end I'm intrigued to test it out due the unblockable degen and cripple, and see for myself how it easy it is to delude people. To my opinion it gives you a great advantage over people with little experience (which you already had an advantage over). But whether the luring tactic will work against skilled players is doubtful, and therefore the build will be marginalized. For example, a draw conditions monk completely negates any effort you make to impair the enemy.

MAdnRisKy · Jul 29, 2007, 12:05 PM // 12:05

Screaming shot > hunter's shot.

The conditional is easier to trigger, and the plus dmg is always there.

TheOneMephisto · Jul 29, 2007, 12:56 PM // 12:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick Smit

You suffer from mental tunnelvision, NOI intended and you might be very good at playing ranger builds, most likely, that one in particular. This limits you from experimenting with new skillbars, because at first you will perform less, whereas your "superior" skill bar can be played almost blind by you. This is all because it is automated in your mind, but I can assure that there many more ways to play and win, especially in AB where it is certainly not PvP alone, so much depends on the team(s) that your efforts to maximize might actually impair you to synergize with others. There are so many ways to counter that ranger build, that you alone are not gonna make the difference.

If you care to build a constructive discussion you will actually refrain from statements like this, because they inhibit any constructive criticism, much like bad scientists and religious zealots like to do because they think they are right. There is no such thing as a unique and universal "law" or rule in order to describe a topic, and many roads lead to Rome.

The build you propose may be very annoying to other players, but not very effective against NPCs. NPCs do not need to be crippled and the only thing that kills them fast is damage, eventually/possibly combined with some complementing utilities.event heals and/or damage.

Now I will continue to read your guide and maybe/hopefully learn something from it

Ok in general agree with you, but I personally feel that the build is based too much on PvP and essentially even on bad habits in PvP or AB. You are proactively luring away people which in itself is not a bad tactic in AB as many people will bite (this is due absence of any spark of common sense). But you also cripple your own team by your absence. The solocapping ability of this build is there, but it aint shining over, for example, a firenuker or barrager. The unconditional degen damage is only 8 health per second (on multiple targets), whereas, for example, a barrager does much more damage per second on multiple targets (NPCs I speak), he can supplement himself with additional enchantments for extra damage. The conditional damage from hunters shot will often not be triggered on NPCs.

However, in the end I'm intrigued to test it out due the unblockable degen and cripple, and see for myself how it easy it is to delude people. To my opinion it gives you a great advantage over people with little experience (which you already had an advantage over). But whether the luring tactic will work against skilled players is doubtful, and therefore the build will be marginalized. For example, a draw conditions monk completely negates any effort you make to impair the enemy.

There aren't any other good ranger builds. Pretty much all the viable solo templates have been discovered and exploited. If you have another ultimate ranger build, I'd like to see it. However, the fact stands that, especially with rangers, the current template of savage/dshot/apply/natural/mendtouch/troll is so versatile and powerful that other options just don't stand up most of the time.

Cripshot isn't powerful because of the damage, the point of cripshot is that it has massive movement control abilities. You shouldn't be playing this build to kill people. You should be playing this build by going up against 2-4 people at a time, slowing them, harassing them, forcing them to walk long distances while crippled, interrupting them, possibly degening them to death, and generally making their life hell.

If 1 person can hold off, slow down, and generally render ineffective 4 people, then that's an amazing tradeoff. I've easily held off entire teams for minutes while they try to go cap a shrine by simply crippling, running away from their target if they try to kill me, and coming back and crippling them again when they try to simply ignore me.

This build may not be able to kill NPCs efficiently, but it is the ultimate battlefield control build. When you need a build that can render an entire enemy team impotent when played right, this is what you should turn to.

Avarre · Jul 29, 2007, 01:01 PM // 13:01

Ranger = Dual Majors (Exp/Wild, minor marks because damage is irrelevant)
Standard GvG Bar = Crip, apply, savage, dist, natural, troll, touch, screaming (or other utility)
The build isn't exactly much to debate about...

Tactics posted look ok, though. As a character to mess up the opponents 'run around and cap' strategy, you have some excellent capabilities. Good job writing this up overall.

moriz · Jul 29, 2007, 02:23 PM // 14:23

i might sound harsh about the "only good ranger builds" part, but it's true. name me one, just one, build that can come even with these two builds in terms of adaptivity and power. you can't. the standard ranger template, as onemephisto already pointed out, is tried time and time again to be the best, that there isn't a lot of room for anything else.

as for screaming shot vs hunter's shot, i find that the condition for hunter's shot very easy to meet, and allows me to stay out of caster range. screaming shot is just too unwieldy overall because of the constant movement in AB.

Patrick Smit · Jul 29, 2007, 08:19 PM // 20:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOneMephisto

There aren't any other good ranger builds. Pretty much all the viable solo templates have been discovered and exploited. If you have another ultimate ranger build, I'd like to see it. However, the fact stands that, especially with rangers, the current template of savage/dshot/apply/natural/mendtouch/troll is so versatile and powerful that other options just don't stand up most of the time.

Cripshot isn't powerful because of the damage, the point of cripshot is that it has massive movement control abilities. You shouldn't be playing this build to kill people. You should be playing this build by going up against 2-4 people at a time, slowing them, harassing them, forcing them to walk long distances while crippled, interrupting them, possibly degening them to death, and generally making their life hell.

If 1 person can hold off, slow down, and generally render ineffective 4 people, then that's an amazing tradeoff. I've easily held off entire teams for minutes while they try to go cap a shrine by simply crippling, running away from their target if they try to kill me, and coming back and crippling them again when they try to simply ignore me.

This build may not be able to kill NPCs efficiently, but it is the ultimate battlefield control build. When you need a build that can render an entire enemy team impotent when played right, this is what you should turn to.

I understand this is a good solo annoying build, thats why I bolded the assumption you all make. However, there is much more to AB then just solo annoy players. A barrager, supplemented with enchants can solocap so much faster than the proposed build, can mend touch as well, has an interrupt, can stride away easily, heal using trolls, along with pin down to crip a nasty guy. Many other builds can fill other roles or needs.

What I am saying here is that you seem too focussed on a PvP role based on GvG tactics. In AB you have much more freedom and can adapt different roles. If you say this is the only viable ranger build, then I have to say you that I think you are just plain wrong, get out of this "kill the gank squad" mentality if you play AB, there is so much different you could do.

You can calculate, by heart, that a barrager does moer damage on NPCs on a shrine then a cripshot build like that can do.

Say the cripshot needs 3 shots 6 (seconds) to poison all, the NPCs don't move so hunters shot is useless in that case. The damage done over time is 3*8=24+1/2*19=33.5 dmg/s
A barrager, with a vampiric bow string, starts immediately pounding NPCs, with (1/2*19+5+15)*3=88.5 dmg/s. This guy could enhance himself using weapon spells and such. But can be equipped with some utilities as D-shot, stride, MT, trolls, savage, and 2 other skills u like

Granted, he will not be as versatile as the cripshot, but he excels over the cripshot for capping purposes, thereby directly contributing to gain the upper amount of shrines. After which you can start harrassing players.

The cripshot however relies on diverting the attention of "easily" distractable players to the cripshot. If they don't react and just keep capping, the cripshot will not be much of an annoyance. Especially not when a draw monk is around. What I say is that AB is different from GvG.

Skuld · Jul 29, 2007, 09:26 PM // 21:26

Burning Arrow ranger with Barbed Trap ( even or Pin Down) instead of res sig is my favourite AB ranger build, you lose out on the snare, but cripshots can't kill anything, and being able to solo that shrine so much faster is far more valuable..

Epinephrine · Jul 29, 2007, 09:34 PM // 21:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAdnRisKy

Screaming shot > hunter's shot.

The conditional is easier to trigger, and the plus dmg is always there.

I disagree, I prefer Hunter's Shot. Easier to apply multiple times, easier to spread, AB in particular has no shortage of moving targets, longer bleed, can hit from outside of casting range, adds a similar amount of damage if used regularly and is cheaper.

I don't tend to like cripshot for capping, it's a better harassing build perhaps, but it takes forever to cap a shrine with it. If you are going in to cap bring an ele or something.

Double degen build (barbed arrow/poison arrow) can be fun for degen spreading, since you can easily -7 degen every target in range, from full longbow range if desired. Not as good at maintaining a cripple, but a pin down can do a lot for harassing a single target.

moko · Jul 29, 2007, 10:18 PM // 22:18

you clearly didn't get the purpose of Cripshot.

why don't you just read his guide?

stop arguing with capping; that's not your job ffs.

also, first you suggest Hunter's shot and then you clearly state that you prefer capping -- doesn't make sense now does it?

you aren't harassing ONE target, you are harassing MULTIPLE ones, enough so end up in an advantage of player numbers.

moriz · Jul 29, 2007, 10:49 PM // 22:49

how many draw monks are there in AB anyways? even if there is one, it's not like draw conditions can keep up with crippling shot. hell, if he spams it, then it becomes an easy matter of dshotting it.

i think patrick smit is still stuck on the idea of AB being a game of musical chairs. that's fine, if he wants to mindlessly cap shrines over and over again. however, what makes or breaks an AB match is the speed of capping. the cripshot can singlehandedly slow down an entire group. yes, even if they ignore the cripshot, they will be slowed down enough for your side to gain the edge. after all, you only need to possess 4 of the 7 shrines to win most of the time. a single cripshot can give you that 1 more shrine consistently that no other class can give you.

the cripshot is also excellent playing support in a group skirmish. it fits well with any team, since it can snare offensively and defensively, and providing degen and a few interrupts. there are very few builds that can fulfill all these abilities.

lastly, patrick favours the barrage ranger and claims that it is effective at capping. while he is right, the barrage ranger is nevertheless slower than a fire ele. if all i want is a character to cap shrines with, i'll choose the ele all the time. instead of being a good all-around character like he believes, the barrage ranger is actually obsolete, and not a very good build.

anyways, time to write the BA ranger guide....

MAdnRisKy · Jul 30, 2007, 12:37 AM // 00:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Epinephrine

I disagree, I prefer Hunter's Shot. Easier to apply multiple times, easier to spread, AB in particular has no shortage of moving targets, longer bleed, can hit from outside of casting range, adds a similar amount of damage if used regularly and is cheaper.

You're probably right actually, I was transplanting a gvg build in my head, in AB there probably is a case for hunters. I liked that screaming allowed you to spike asist somewhat. But clearly not a priority here.

Hunters has a lower recharge and is cheaper.
As long as you never intend to land it on a shrine you're good to go.

*adjusts AB bar*