Curse

Mental Leteci · Aug 19, 2007, 11:06 PM // 23:06

Channeling promotes bad positioning? And don't you think you can prot yourself like shit to get 0 dps and still be in the middle of the fight.Example:
Me: SoD Prot
Opposite team: Paraway, R-Spike
Position: Between paragons/rangers
Energy return: HUGE
Damage on me: health hardly drops under 5/6

KTNXBAI

Lorekeeper · Aug 20, 2007, 10:55 AM // 10:55

there are far more situations in HA where i would like the almost infinite energy provided by channeling than there are situations in HA where i would like the freedom of positioning granted by Gole.

for example, on capture point maps, a monk is often forced to stay on an altar, in which case kiting becomes incredibly difficult. In this situation a prot monk would be far better off with channeling and spamming prots on recharge to stay alive rather than kiting and allowing a midline to shutdown the enemy offense. Its entirely possible that the monk will not be supported by its midline, in which case channeling allows the monk a better chance to survive on its own.

on king of the hill, a 2 or 3 monkbackline has to survive the combined assault of 2 enemy teams. With the fight being so densely packed and the need to keep the ghostly alive keeping the monks within healing range of the altar, channeling would be the most sensible option. The more time monks spend kiting on this map, the less time they spend healing/protting the ghost. No midline can comprehensively shutout the combined offense of 2 opposing teams so it really does come down to the backlines ability to keep eachother and the ghost alive.

the debate about whether channeling is better than gole is not about whether you are a better monk whether you use either. Its about what skill is best suited to a playmode. I use channeling in HA because channeling suits HA for my monking needs. I use Gole or return in GvG because those skills better suit my monking needs in GvG.

I admit, the more practice you get with gole/return or any other supporting monk skill you might use in GvG the better. So if you only HA in order to practice monking in general, go ahead and use gole or return etc... if you can perform pretty well in HA using those skills then you will improve your performance in GvG hugely.

However, when i HA i would much rather take advantage of the benefits of channeling im not all too fussed about training myself with the use of gole/return and proper energy management through efficient skill use. I want to spam my spirit bond like no tomorrow, i want to spam rof while surrounded by 100 pets, i want to spam skills with no space in between. Cos i can with channeling.

Thats the way i see monking in HA. The intensity of the fights is matched by the intensity at which i am using skills.

In GvG i relax, my skills arent flashing every half second. I have time to watch the battle more closely, its easier to see the positioning on my teammates. I can carefully choose wat to cast on my allies, the more practice i get the better i get at choosing the best skill needed for the job which means i dont waste energy.

Unfortunately the spam habits of HA monking with channeling might follow a monk into GvG. Ive seen plenty of HA monks in GvG wasting huge amounts of energy casting inefficiently but that is much more a fault of theirs, their inability to switch between the 2 types of monking, rather than the fault of the skills they are using.

makosi · Aug 20, 2007, 01:36 PM // 13:36

Channeling (much like IWAY) is beneficial in HA because the maps are so small. The GvG maps are significantly larger so people tend to use GoLE which isn't conditional.

Channeling is superior in certain circumstances but GoLE is much more stable and reliable.

Mental Leteci · Aug 20, 2007, 04:01 PM // 16:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by makosi

Channeling is superior in certain circumstances but GoLE is much more stable and reliable.

We're talking about HA here and only HA. GoLE in HA is the most useless skill ever, there's no even kill count so I don't see who would choose it over channeling.

Andrew Patrick · Aug 20, 2007, 06:34 PM // 18:34

I don't know about you guys, but when I'm Monking in HA I usually have at least one or two enemies within Channeling range whether I like it or not since there usually, you know, beating me in the head with swords and what not. If their front line isn't pressuring your monks, chances are you wont need to worry about energy management, and if they are a ranged spike (like paraspike, or ranger spike) your position isn't going to make that much difference since they don't need to be close to you to hit you...unless you have obstacles to hide behind. It's really dependent on the circumstances, and an experienced monk will know when it's ok to move forward a bit to get the extra energy, and when it is better to hide out in the back.

At times Channeling will fail you, but from my experience, it cannot be beat in HA. I suppose if you ever have a monk that thinks it's a smart idea to run into the middle of a SH spike team or hug a few thumpers to get energy, it may be a problem, but I think it's safe to say that's an issue with the player, not the skill.

Mental Leteci · Aug 20, 2007, 09:57 PM // 21:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Patrick

At times Channeling will fail you, but from my experience, it cannot be beat in HA. I suppose if you ever have a monk that thinks it's a smart idea to run into the middle of a SH spike team or hug a few thumpers to get energy, it may be a problem, but I think it's safe to say that's an issue with the player, not the skill.

Actually you can do even that with SoD and SoA.

Horace The Great · Aug 20, 2007, 10:48 PM // 22:48

were is divine spirit

?

channeling ftw ofcourse only way to be able to keep team an ghost up in halls.

Cass · Aug 21, 2007, 08:58 AM // 08:58

Offering of Blood + Divine Boon used to be a staple build in Tombs. Ah, good old times.

Mental Leteci · Aug 21, 2007, 10:00 AM // 10:00

It wasn't really that used in Tombs =/

Signet Of Hell · Aug 21, 2007, 01:06 PM // 13:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cass

Offering of Blood + Divine Boon used to be a staple build in Tombs. Ah, good old times.

Yeah, not so much in tombs.

Jiao Yang · Aug 27, 2007, 06:03 PM // 18:03

Channeling is brilliant because it requires you to run into the exact people who you are trying to avoid, to gain energy.

Nadia Roark · Sep 14, 2007, 07:04 PM // 19:04

I stopped taking you seriously after you said "I try to avoid RCs." SoD is nice, and I've always preferred it to SoR (even before the last nerf) but if you're running a 2 monk backline you need RC's healing power.

Also, saying DH > RC must be a joke. DH is a lifesaver against the 5 or so percent of teams where you'll need to use it, but RC is wildly superior in 95% of practical HA applications. If you're really that worried about hexes, find a prot that knows how to use purge sig.

But more to the point, channelling owns and always has (okay, except during kill count on broken tower x.x). Anyone who whines about it forcing you into the enemy's team needs to learn how to channel tank. It's not hard.

Melody Cross · Sep 16, 2007, 06:59 AM // 06:59

Its good in altar matches. So if your intention is to hold halls, channeling is a priority skill to bring. You can get to halls without it, but I don't think you'd hold for long if you did. I think some of the confusion is when people talk about pressure. There is a difference between the pressure you receive in an 8v8 match and the pressure you receive when 2 teams have decided you need to die.

It does promote bad placement. More than once, I've just said forget it and run into a mob to spam SoD in a cluster. Or after a rez, channeling just outside that cluster and spamming 5e skills=full blue bar. I'll be the first to admit the win would have taken less time if I had shown more restraint...and the lose wouldn't have happened if I hadn't decided to tank.

More teams are built toward cluster than they used to be. Ball on an SH long enough and no amount of energy will save you. Ball on trappers to just spam? GG. And since all your monks are running channeling, the thick of things is a nice cozy spot for them to swap to high HP/AL sets and spam. No (or at least very little) wanding trappers in those situations, and team pressure for the other side increases as a result. Harder to see spikes because nothing has to run anywhere; fewer tells). Worse, the inherent gain of energy from the channeling does not detract from another important issue: recycle. You may be able to tank just fine in a ball, but the other 5-6 members of your team will be in dire straights if AoE is dispersed enough.

Before you say "Well, thats just stupid for you to do" watch obs in a king of the hill fight and get back to me. We all know better...and too many monks--good monks--do it anyway because lots of +1s are gud.

That makes it a risky skill to bring. But the rewards are still worth the inherent tactical issues, when used with good judgment. And--as has been said--when you're being trained it makes for a very cheap (if not free) quick cast skill.

/signed for warning label added to channeling: "Monks should use with discretion"

I prolly shouldn't be posting this, tbh. I've been away from HA for almost if not over a year. Rusty doesn't describe my monking prowess in "serious" PvP right now. But, even if I'm totally off the map here, at least yall can set me straight.

GGs

Our Lady Of Sorrow · Sep 17, 2007, 11:43 AM // 11:43

Cmon.. any decent monk will know that channeling is best in HA.. there are thumpers everywhere, and everyone is like "rape the monk!!!!11" = gg energy.. the only time i will make acception is oldschool bloodspike (dead now

!!! ) or when you have a bip necro, maybe then mo/a or mo/w. but i would still prefer channeling.. (dont want that bip killing himself.)

in any altar map all you have to do is stand near the altar and spam rof to win nowadays.. its a bit sad..

in any other arena, i wouldnt advise channeling.. RA.. enemy = 2sf, 1wamo, 1monk.. you get channeling off 3, not really enough as your team has 3 assassins that love running away from you. you need dark escape or GoLE.
or ofcourse.. in RA you can always take a 55 or A/Me.. most people do nowadays for no reason </3

hyro yamaguchi · Sep 17, 2007, 04:46 PM // 16:46

It's kill the monkie in basically every form of PvP, even in RA, or at least, the people who don't play Healing Breeze wammo can usually grasp the concept of the monk healing the rest.

Nadia Roark · Sep 17, 2007, 05:34 PM // 17:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Our Lady Of Sorrow

Cmon.. any decent monk will know that channeling is best in HA.. there are thumpers everywhere, and everyone is like "rape the monk!!!!11" = gg energy.. the only time i will make acception is oldschool bloodspike (dead now

!!! ) or when you have a bip necro, maybe then mo/a or mo/w. but i would still prefer channeling.. (dont want that bip killing himself.)

Even with a BiP, I still wouldn't rely on it alone for emanagement. Channeling is still worth taking if only for the fact that you're not going to have a necro who's constantly BiPping himself to keep the team alive--he should only have to do it as a last resort; you can't expect a necro to keep BiP on you 24/7; and even if he did a good amount of your energy would probably be spent healing him back up.

To be honest, I have an instant prejudice against monks who tell me that channeling "sucks" or whatever else. I ran last night with some joker who, after telling me that I was the "Worst prot in Guild Wars" (red flag number one) proceeded to run the gayest LoD bar I've ever seen--without channeling-- he stuck power drain in there (red flag number two). Predictably, people died with fair regularity, as we had two LoD's and neither of them were running a hybrid build (RoF > Orison, anyone?). It was an interesting exercise in emanagement variation; and it proved fairly quickly that some things work and some things don't. I'll be the first to admit that I've tried powerdrain too, but I'm not going to honestly suggest it if I'm running in a serious team.

A lot of people (including the OP, from what I've seen) seem to be a bit bitter about the lack of flexibility in HA. I don't blame them, but at the same time that inflexibility is usually borne of the fact that very few things actually work reliably in this arena. If you know what you're doing, nothing works better than channeling; at least from what I've seen. I've tried powerdrain, auspicious incantation, GoLE, and (back before it got hit with the nerf bat) drain enchantment + ihex. Channeling has proven superior to all of them in every possible environment. PDrain is okay, but the fact that you have to tab through enemy casters and then interrupt something is bad news for your team--as a monk, you should be watching their bars, not the other teams'.

TheOneMephisto · Sep 17, 2007, 08:52 PM // 20:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nadia Roark

as a monk, you should be watching their bars, not the other teams'.

If you monk by watching red bars and making them go up, your a bad monk. You should pretty much spend as much time watching the enemy as you spend watching your team or your team's bars. Of course, most of that time will be focused on warriors/other melee, but you still shouldn't be spending your time watching your own red bars by any means.

Our Lady Of Sorrow · Sep 18, 2007, 09:48 AM // 09:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nadia Roark

Even with a BiP, I still wouldn't rely on it alone for emanagement. Channeling is still worth taking if only for the fact that you're not going to have a necro who's constantly BiPping himself to keep the team alive--he should only have to do it as a last resort; you can't expect a necro to keep BiP on you 24/7; and even if he did a good amount of your energy would probably be spent healing him back up.

pretty much what i said damnit >.<"
channeling is the best.. vs oldschool iway it could not be beaten.. especially if you were ranger spike with the bonder

stand in a group of thumpers or warriors and gg, you have inf energy!
altar holding just stand on altar and spam 5energy skills.. its not rocket science.. unless.. hmm.. nope, its not.. HA is so full of dumb what-do-you-call-'ems now..
RaO:
6 1 1 2 3 1 1 2 3 1 1 2 3
Rit:
1 2 3 4 5 1 2 3 4 5
Trapper:
6 1 2 3 4 5 1 2 3 4 5

(sorry for off-topic btw, but i am getting somewhere with this)

go stand in all the spirits (they wont bite

)
thumpers chase you..
you are surrounded by 1rit, 2 rangers, 2pets, 1trapper and about 3 spirits at a time, minimum. = 9 targets. and maybe a healer. i think that means spiritbond/sod/rof/whatever spam

just watchout for that trapper (if its smoke) and problem solved?

i mean.. paraspikes.. same thing.. into middle, sod spam? gg
balanced teams.. omg.. its ACTUALLY TACTICAL!!!! kinda.
depends what you call balanced

we have a balanced team of trappers and thumpers, with a rit for defence and 2 healers.. we are balanced noob! <--always makes me laugh
oldschool balance v balance was good fun. (even though i played spike most of the time) *ups shield for flames*
channeling is the way to go for HA unless there are overpowered skills suck as energising finale (oldschool) maybe then <(MAYBE!) there can be an acception.. period.
sorry for rant on
edit:

Quote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nadia Roark
as a monk, you should be watching their bars, not the other teams'.

If you monk by watching red bars and making them go up, your a bad monk. You should pretty much spend as much time watching the enemy as you spend watching your team or your team's bars. Of course, most of that time will be focused on warriors/other melee, but you still shouldn't be spending your time watching your own red bars by any means.

i think he means you shouldnt be watching enemy BARS AND SPELLS to interupt, you should be watching positioning and bars

Nadia Roark · Sep 19, 2007, 03:33 AM // 03:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOneMephisto

If you monk by watching red bars and making them go up, your a bad monk. You should pretty much spend as much time watching the enemy as you spend watching your team or your team's bars. Of course, most of that time will be focused on warriors/other melee, but you still shouldn't be spending your time watching your own red bars by any means.

I didn't mean to imply by the word "watch" that I meant to say "obsess over your team's bars." There's nothing in the phrase "you should be watching [your] bars" that suggests that you ignore everything else; it's simply a matter of priority.

I understand why you would advise to watch the playing field, but you should also keep an eye on the party screen.

elektra_lucia · Oct 05, 2007, 03:27 AM // 03:27

channeling > all

gole is just laziness, easier to monk in the same energy set. It's not much different to a crock of shit.

Lettuce do you still play? XD.

BiP is a waste of elite and health.

You can use channelling, run in, channel, run out? You don't have to always be 55'ing it up. In HoH unlike GVG (and this is often over-looked by many of the people wanting shield bash or something like that? :S) there is often places you have to be at, at certain times. Even with GoLE you'd still have to be in those places in my opinion.