Curse

yum · Oct 11, 2007, 04:04 AM // 04:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Symbol

If you're forcing them to put up SoD every time you combo (which is every 5 or so seconds), isn't that a good thing already?

He said that it was asuming that you had disabled all other block sources, which is very unlikely.

@Moriz.
Really? It's weird coz I always feel that the + damage is effect by the type of damage of your weapon. Oh well, let me check again.

Symbol · Oct 11, 2007, 04:13 AM // 04:13

Quote:

He said that it was asuming that you had disabled all other block sources, which is very unlikely.

As I said, other block sources are not reliable, even against a blockable SA. Any single 50% block prot will almost certainly get pulled off. Maybe if they're camping in a ward under aegis or something...

I dunno, a consistent big damage dual that removes 2 enchants on a 4s recharge seems like a pretty solid skill to me, esp when you have an unblockable lead and offhand to go with it.

Seamus Finn · Oct 11, 2007, 05:00 AM // 05:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wasteland Squidget

A dual attack that removes enchantments while being blockable is terrible with the current skill balances. It doesn't really matter how many theoretical Spirit Bonds or SoAs you might pull, because SoD is going to be up on the target long before your dual goes off. That's assuming you disable the rest of the blocking skills the enemy team is using.

If you really want to hit the SA combo, you need to hit the recharge or energy cost. That character is crap if he can't do his combo regularly.

Well I would be taking it more of a split utility skill. But I don't think Shattering Assault should be part of an unblockable combo. I think a nine tails on 4 sec recharge should be fine for the purpose that people claim to be running the sins. Can someone rationalize why sins SHOULD be unblockable grenths?

twicky_kid · Oct 11, 2007, 05:18 AM // 05:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seamus Finn

Well I would be taking it more of a split utility skill. But I don't think Shattering Assault should be part of an unblockable combo. I think a nine tails on 4 sec recharge should be fine for the purpose that people claim to be running the sins. Can someone rationalize why sins SHOULD be unblockable grenths?

Because 9 tails is not an elite and SA is.

Bankai · Oct 11, 2007, 05:51 AM // 05:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seamus Finn

Then run nine tails(with a buffd recharge). That is exactly what I want to happen.

But the others don't want that to happen, because it's quite a retarded idea.

The problem with giving an attack super-strength while being counterable, is that people will always, always find a way to use it. I can see it working with a gale-lock and rigor mortis for example.

Seamus Finn · Oct 11, 2007, 06:02 AM // 06:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bankai

But the others don't want that to happen, because it's quite a retarded idea.

The problem with giving an attack super-strength while being counterable, is that people will always, always find a way to use it. I can see it working with a gale-lock and rigor mortis for example.

If people want to take skills as weak as rigor mortis to make sure a big attack gets off I would take that over what we currently have.

And why would nine tails being on a 4 recharge be retarded and SA as it stands now fine?

To the other guy... you would use your elite for something else? People aren't currently slotting SA just to have an elite.

Bankai · Oct 11, 2007, 02:22 PM // 14:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seamus Finn

If people want to take skills as weak as rigor mortis to make sure a big attack gets off I would take that over what we currently have.

And why would nine tails being on a 4 recharge be retarded and SA as it stands now fine?

To the other guy... you would use your elite for something else? People aren't currently slotting SA just to have an elite.

The 'retardation' was in reference to making SA do +150 damage.

Greedy Gus · Oct 11, 2007, 02:37 PM // 14:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seamus Finn

Well I would be taking it more of a split utility skill. But I don't think Shattering Assault should be part of an unblockable combo. I think a nine tails on 4 sec recharge should be fine for the purpose that people claim to be running the sins. Can someone rationalize why sins SHOULD be unblockable grenths?

Gotta agree here. ~2 weeks ago, HAnD was running assassin frontliners (in the top 15) that looked like this:

gfs/wild/nine-tails/assault enchantments{E}/flurry/fear me/watch yourself/res

gfs/wild/nine-tails/blades of steel/impale/soldier's stance{E}/fear me/watch yourself

which to me is a more interesting way to go in. When it hit big with american teams about a week ago, it's only been all about pumping out buffed shatterings over and over. Active prot to mitigate damage and melee players swapping targets to avoid that prot are two of the strongest aspects of player skill left in the game, and I don't see it as healthy for the game to go in the old grenths era "lol keep training this guy" direction.

I think there's more room for stuff like rending touch & assault enchantments where you make damage/time sacrifices if you really want to keep pushing damage on a target through prot instead of swapping targets, which again rewards player skill.

pah01 · Oct 11, 2007, 04:30 PM // 16:30

well we are gonna have a retard meta again thanks to the genious skill designers and skill balancers at arenanet

Lorekeeper · Oct 11, 2007, 05:08 PM // 17:08

This is my final revised list, wishlist if you may so im expecting other people to disagree with many if not all the things on it =)

Assassin

Augury of Death

5e 1s cast 12s recharge ---> 5e 1s cast 20s recharge

Crippling Dagger

5e 1s cast 5s recharge

Spell. Send out a Crippling Dagger at target foe. Crippling Dagger strikes for 15...51...60 earth damage if it hits, and Cripples moving foes for 3...13...15 seconds. This spell has half the normal range.

---> attack skill, cannot be blocked.

Dancing Daggers

Spell. Send out three Dancing Daggers at target foe, each striking for 5...29...35 earth damage if they hit. Dancing Daggers has half the normal range. This skill counts as a lead attack.

---> attack skill

Impale

Skill. Must follow a dual attack. Target foe is struck for 25...85...100 earth damage and suffers from a Deep Wound for 5...17...20 seconds.

---> attack skill

Mark of Death

10e 1/4s cast 20s recharge

Hex Spell. For 4...9...10 seconds, target foe gains 33% less benefit from healing.

---> 5e 1/2s cast 10s recharge

Hex Spell. For 2...5...7 seconds, target foe gains 33% less benefit from healing.

Signet of Toxic Shock

1s cast 15s recharge

---> 2s cast 20s recharge

Siphon Strength

10e 1s cast 10s recharge

Elite Hex Spell. For 5...17...20 seconds, target foe deals 5...41...50 less damage with attacks and all of your attacks against that foe have an additional 33% chance of being a critical hit.

---> 5e 1s cast 15s recharge

Elite Hex Spell. For 5...17...20 seconds, target foe deals 5...41...50 less damage with attacks.

Dervish

Scythes

Scythes have the inherent ability to strike up to three targets in adjacent frontal range, so all bonuses (i.e. a vampiric mod) and penalties (i.e. Empathy) applied on the player when they hit will be triggered accordingly each swing.

---> scythes have the inherent ability to strike up to two targets in adjacent frontal range.

Wearying Strike

Scythe Attack. If this attack hits, you deal +1...25...31 damage and inflict a Deep Wound for 3...9...10 seconds. You suffer from Weakness for 10 seconds.

---> Scythe Attack. If this attack hits, you deal +1...20..26 damage and inflict a Deep Wound for 3...9...10 seconds. You suffer from Weakness for 10 seconds.

Elementalist

Blinding Surge

10e 3/4s cast 4s recharge

Elite Spell. Target foe is struck for 5...41...50 lightning damage and Blinded for 2...7...8 seconds. If that foe is under the effects of an Enchantment, all adjacent foes are also Blinded for 2...7...8 seconds. This Spell has 25% armor penetration.

---> 10e 1/2s cast 4s recharge

Elite Spell. Target foe is struck for 5...41...50 lightning damage and Blinded for 2...7...8 seconds. If that foe is under the effects of an Enchantment or attacking, all adjacent foes are also Blinded for 2...7...8 seconds. This Spell has 25% armor penetration.

Conjure Flame/Lightning/Frost

durations 60 seconds recharge 45 seconds

---> duration 45 seconds, recharge 60 seconds

Ward against Melee

10e 1s cast 20s recharge - Ward Spell. You create a Ward Against Melee at your current location. For 8...18...20 seconds, non-Spirit allies in this area have a 50% chance to block melee attacks.

---> 15e 1s cast 20s recharge - Ward Spell. You create a Ward Against Melee at your current location. For 8...18...20 seconds, non-Spirit allies in this area have a 50% chance to block melee attacks.

Glyph of Lesser Energy

Glyph. For the next 15 seconds, your next 2 Spells cost 10...16...18 less Energy to cast.

---> Glyph. For the next 15 seconds, your next 2 Spells cost 8...18...20 less Energy to cast.

Mesmer

Ethereal Burden/Kitah's Burden

15e 1s cast 45s recharge

---> 10e 1s cast 30s recharge

Ineptitude

10e 1s cast 20s recharge

Elite Hex Spell. For 4...9...10 seconds, the next time target foe attacks, that foe takes 30...114...135 damage and becomes Blinded for 10 seconds.

---> 15e 1s cast 15s recharge

Elite Hex Spell. For 3...5...7 seconds, target foe and all up to two adjacent foes are hexed with ineptitude, the next time each foe attacks that foe is interrupted and takes 30...75...105 damage and becomes Blinded for 10 seconds.

Clumsiness

10e 1s cast 4s recharge

Hex Spell. For 4...7...8 seconds, the next time target foe attempts to attack, the attack is interrupted and target foe suffers 10...76...92 damage.

---> 5e 1s cast 7s recharge

Hex Spell. For 2...5...7 seconds, the next time target foe attempts to attack, the attack is interrupted and target foe suffers 10...56...72 damage.

Feedback

10e 2s cast 30s recharge

---> 10e 2s cast 20s recharge

Monk

Mending Touch

Spell. Touched ally loses two Conditions and is healed for 15...51...60 Health for each Condition removed in this way.

---> Spell. Touched ally loses 1...2...3 Conditions and is healed for 15...61...70 Health for each Condition removed in this way.

Shielding Hands

5e 1/4 cast 15s recharge --->

Enchantment Spell. For 8 seconds, damage received by target ally is reduced by 3...15...18.

---> 5e 1/2s cast 10s recharge

Enchantment Spell. For 5 seconds, damage received by target ally is reduced by 3...15...18.

Shield Guardian

10e 1/4s cast 1s recharge

Enchantment Spell. For 10 seconds, target ally has a 75% chance to block incoming attacks. The next time target ally blocks an attack, that ally and all nearby allies are healed for 16...67...80 and Shield Guardian ends.

---> 10e 1s cast 5s recharge

Enchantment Spell. For 3 seconds, target ally has a 75% chance to block incoming attacks. Each time target ally takes damage, that ally and all nearby allies are healed for 16...57...70.

Heal Area

Spell. Heal yourself and all adjacent creatures for 30...150...180 points.

---> Spell. Heal all party members in the area for 30...120...150 points.

Healing Ribbon

10e 1s cast 5s recharge

Spell. Target other ally is healed for 20...92...110 Health. Up to 2 additional allies near target ally are healed for 10...82...100 Health.

---> 5e 1s cast 10s recharge

Spell. Target other ally is healed for 20...92...110 Health. Up to 2 additional allies near target ally are healed for 10...82...100 Health.

Necro

Withering Aura

Enchantment Spell. For 5...17...20 seconds, target ally's melee attacks cause Weakness for 5...17...20 seconds.

---> Enchantment Spell. For 5...17...20 seconds, whenever target ally strikes a foe with a melee weapon or is struck by a foe with a melee weapon, that foe suffers from Weakness for 5...17...20 seconds.

Paragon

Aggressive Refrain

Echo. For 5...21...25 seconds, you attack 25% faster. This Echo is reapplied every time a Chant or Shout ends on you.

---> You lose 20 armour while attacking and 10 armour whilst not attacking.

Spears

attack rate 1.5s ---> 1.75s

Ranger

Barbed Arrows

Preparation. For 18 seconds, your arrows cause Bleeding for 3...13...15 seconds. This Skill is easily interrupted.

---> Preparation. For 18 seconds, your arrows cause Bleeding for 3...13...15 seconds. (no longer easily interrupted).

Distracting Shot

5e 1/2s activation 10s recharge

---> 5e 1/2s activation 15s recharge

Ritualist

Warrior

Fear Me

---> At 9 tactics lose 3 energy. at 14 lose 4.

* i wanted to make deadly arts semi-attractive outside the deadly paradox spike builds. Crippling daggers gives the deadly arts like much needed utility, mark of death and siphon strength might be useful in hex builds.

* Melandru Dervish really tear things up at VoD, especially when you cannot always rely on the NPCs to spread out very well. Reducing the number of adjacent frontal foes hit by a scythe might help reduce their dominance at this highly volatile moment in the match. Slight hit to wearying strike hopefully helps achieve this balancing too.

*With the hit to passive defense in this update, more active forms of defense are being buffed. Blinding surge eles were once a staple of builds in GvG, hopefully with these buffs we might see these highly versatile midliners come back into play. Ward against melee was promoted very static and boring gameplays, but the biggest problem with the ward was when it was used by a Mantra of Recovery mesmer, with this updates changes, it is now harder to use on mesmers but retains its effectiveness when used on an elementalist. Glyph of lesser energy needed a slight hit and a slight buff for two reasons, to give elementalists better access to higher energy cost skills and to stop it from fuelling other classes builds too easily.

Buffs to the illusion skills is meant to encourage more use of the illusion line as active defense against physical classes.

* The buffs to active prots like shielding hands will hopefully fill the void left by the hit to passive defenses. The over-reliance on Light of deliverance is the reason why other healing skills that heal multiple allies have been buffed, hopefully opening up more variety in healing bars.

* Paragons have settled into quite a comfortable role in GW PvP, these changes will hopefully tone down the high DPS of these characters, which was quite a problem when they were used in large numbers. The armour reducing effects of aggressive refrain will hopefully encourage paragons to think a bit more about their ability to soak up any punishment dealt to them.

Turbobusa · Oct 11, 2007, 05:16 PM // 17:16

heal area change is stupid: you have healing ring for that. I hope "in the area" is adjacent
Dervish nerf: lol
Withering aura is fine as it is. Blinding surge also.
And I dont see the point of removing syphon strength's critical bonus.

Thomas.knbk · Oct 11, 2007, 05:40 PM // 17:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by lorekeeper

Blinding Surge

10e 3/4s cast 4s recharge

Elite Spell. Target foe is struck for 5...41...50 lightning damage and Blinded for 2...7...8 seconds. If that foe is under the effects of an Enchantment, all adjacent foes are also Blinded for 2...7...8 seconds. This Spell has 25% armor penetration.

---> 10e 1/2s cast 4s recharge

Elite Spell. Target foe is struck for 5...41...50 lightning damage and Blinded for 2...7...8 seconds. If that foe is under the effects of an Enchantment or attacking, all adjacent foes are also Blinded for 2...7...8 seconds. This Spell has 25% armor penetration.

you actually want to buff Blinding Surge?

Captain Robo · Oct 11, 2007, 06:47 PM // 18:47

What the hell is going on?

Three pages into this post people are crying about blockway being overpowered.

Now that blockway has an effective counter in Shattering Assault (newsflash: its been around since nightfall was released and seen little-to-no large scale use) people are whining about why Shattering Assault is overpowered.

The Shattering Assault sin is a literal marvel of utility that I'm really surprised hasn't been tapped into until now. Unblockable attack chain, condition self cleaning, enchantment removal.

God forbid you actually have a ranger who can interrupt worth his salt
or someone with at least one enchantment removal for assassin's remedy (hooray, blinds work!)
or some sort of split tactics
or (here's a new idea) kill the sin?

Get over it, the metagame adapts to counter dominant builds; not everything is invincible forever. SA Sins aren't degenerate, and they can be beaten: just not with the tools that everyone is so used to running right now!

It's a counter build, and it will be around for only as long as people care to run blockway.

No wonder the devs have such a hard time balancing this game; they're damned if they do, damned if they don't!

Lorekeeper · Oct 11, 2007, 06:48 PM // 18:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas.knbk

you actually want to buff Blinding Surge?

yep a little, id much rather see active defense that takes some brains to use actually get used rather than the brainless 'use and forget' stuff we see today. We dont see bsurge eles anymore simply because they are not needed in the para + mes/ele + r/mo midlines.

if wards become less reliable, which i hope they will become (since they are much easier too disrupt on eles than mesmers), either offense needs to be hit to make up for that lack of defense, or other forms of defense need to be buffed. My choice would be to buff more active forms of defense like bsurge or prots... and to be honest its not that much of a buff. If you and your support warrior spend the whole match training targets you need to spend more time apart... and if bsurge eles are giving your offense trouble at least they are vulnerable to being shutdown by a mesmer by removing attunes and diverting on spikes or pleaking orbs.

yum · Oct 11, 2007, 07:26 PM // 19:26

Lol, I didn't see that you really wanted to buff clumsiness that much.
MoR, arcane echo, clumsiness + energy management. Hooray!!!

Seriously, why on earth you want to buff an already strong defensive system. GW is becoming boring as hell.

streets101 · Oct 11, 2007, 07:27 PM // 19:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorekeeper

Distracting Shot

5e 1/2s activation 10s recharge

---> 5e 1/2s activation 15s recharge

useless change imo. Dshot isnt imba or anything. The only way this skill is exceptionally good is when it is used the correct way. Thus meaning no need to nerf anything that requires some sort of skill to complete.

Bankai · Oct 11, 2007, 07:33 PM // 19:33

Lorekeeper.

I started doubting your post when I saw that you wanted to nerf Melandru's dervishes by making Wearying strike deal a whopping 5 less damage.

Then I saw that you wanted to nerf Heal area.

I laughed. Hard.

Seamus Finn · Oct 11, 2007, 07:46 PM // 19:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bankai

Then I saw that you wanted to nerf Heal area.

I laughed. Hard.

His proposal for heal area is a substantial buff. AOE increased to in the area and now only heals party members.

I sighed. Quietly.

Lorekeeper · Oct 11, 2007, 07:46 PM // 19:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bankai

Lorekeeper.

I started doubting your post when I saw that you wanted to nerf Melandru's dervishes by making Wearying strike deal a whopping 5 less damage.

Then I saw that you wanted to nerf Heal area.

I laughed. Hard.

thats the thing...
i dont want to ''nerf'' melandrus dervishes as such. They are at the bottom of the pile of things i think need dealing with.

i want to see NPCs blow up less versus them, which could be done with the change i suggest to scythes.

the 5 point damage reduction for wearying strike is really just a way of saying... im gonna change it for the sake of changing it and maybe it will make people shut up. i dont think it would be good to reduce the dmg even more, or to drastically change the melandru dervish avatar... cos if that happens we might not see dervishes in play at all. And when i look at balancing i desire more options, not less.

i want to see these minor changes done to dervishes, in combination with the other changes... then if more needs to be done... so be it...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seamus Finn

His proposal for heal area is a substantial buff. AOE increased to in the area and now only heals party members.

I sighed. Quietly.

lol i never said all the changes were necessary. Most of the suggestions i made for the monk skills i would say are the least necessary and perhaps quite silly. But monk skills have always been difficult to tweak havent they.

Razz L Dazzle · Oct 11, 2007, 08:48 PM // 20:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorekeeper

This is my final revised list, wishlist if you may so im expecting other people to disagree with many if not all the things on it =)
Elementalist
Blinding Surge

---> 10e 1/2s cast 4s recharge

Elite Spell. Target foe is struck for 5...41...50 lightning damage and Blinded for 2...7...8 seconds. If that foe is under the effects of an Enchantment or attacking, all adjacent foes are also Blinded for 2...7...8 seconds. This Spell has 25% armor penetration.

The attacking clause seems like a good way to discourage mindless trains. These trains may include SA sins and Melandru dervishes, making the blind issue inconsequential. B-surge should continue to have a 3/4 cast because it is vulnerable to P-Leak and D-shot, both good active disruptions verse midline Eles.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorekeeper

Ward against Melee
---> 15e 1s cast 20s recharge - Ward Spell. You create a Ward Against Melee at your current location. For 8...18...20 seconds, non-Spirit allies in this area have a 50% chance to block melee attacks.

Agree on 15 energy. I would like to see it have a slightly lower duration or 25 recharge, but i could live with just the 15 energy nerf.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorekeeper

Glyph of Lesser Energy

Glyph. For the next 15 seconds, your next 2 Spells cost 10...16...18 less Energy to cast.

---> Glyph. For the next 15 seconds, your next 2 Spells cost 8...18...20 less Energy to cast.

8 Energy seems better, but if passive defense is weakened i'd like this skill to stay at 10 (low point) until we can measure the potential of physical pressure.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorekeeper

Mesmer
Feedback

10e 2s cast 30s recharge
---> 10e 2s cast 20s recharge

MoR needs nerf first. Feedback needs a buff but this falls short of making it a good choice. 5 energy possibly. Drain Enchantment needs to be reworked as its going to be bad if MoR does gets hit. Several inspiration and domination skill will need minor buffs once MoR is dead, which i'm sure it will be in the next week or so. (not sure how soon, as this skill update is very tardy)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorekeeper

Monk
Shielding Hands
---> 5e 1/2s cast 10s recharge
Enchantment Spell. For 5 seconds, damage received by target ally is reduced by 3...15...18.

I think buffing active prots is a good way to go. This skill would be a good candidate as well as Shield guardian. A buff to Life Sheath could be interesting.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorekeeper

Heal Area

Spell. Heal yourself and all adjacent creatures for 30...150...180 points.

---> Spell. Heal all party members in the area for 30...120...150 points.

This will destroy balance as we know it in pre-searing.

Healing prayers needs better single target heals, as Dwayna is about the only playable one. Healing ribbon could be a good buff candidate, the new gw:en skills are in need of improvement as well. Healing elites have received no love since the game's creation. As of DF, 5 energy Bless Light pls.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorekeeper

Paragon

Aggressive Refrain

Echo. For 5...21...25 seconds, you attack 25% faster. This Echo is reapplied every time a Chant or Shout ends on you.
---> You lose 20 armour while attacking and 10 armour whilst not attacking.

Spears
attack rate 1.5s ---> 1.75s

I'd prefer aggressive to be unusable after this update. I'd rather see paragons being forced to take Frenzy and Soldier stance as a cancel, if they want to put up high DPS. I've heard some changes about how paragons are going to be reworked and i've been somewhat disappointed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorekeeper

Ranger

Barbed Arrows
---> Preparation. For 18 seconds, your arrows cause Bleeding for 3...13...15 seconds. (no longer easily interrupted).

It still won't see play. Would have to make the bleeding length much more significant. I'd still take Apply because it is just much better. This skill would also need Poison Arrow to get a worthwhile buff. Something like 5 nrg, 1 second activation. 24 second prep duration for Melandru Arrows, while were at it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorekeeper

Distracting Shot

5e 1/2s activation 10s recharge

---> 5e 1/2s activation 15s recharge

Overall i don't like this change though the arguments the have been made for changing this are valid. I'd prefer savage shot to have a recharge of 8, then look at D-shot later.

Hope changes are coming before myself and the few remaining players in my guild quit GW.