Curse

Zui · Oct 11, 2007, 11:24 PM // 23:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

I like it and won't accept it it is just similar to bonetti's defence but not adrenal and dosn't give you energy in return.

No, it's not--even if it were it wouldn't matter because no one runs Bonetti's Defense in Team Areans for a reason (Ok, so you can see it occationally, and I'll admit to running it myself in certain metas, but it's not common because it's usually not good).

Let's look at the differences:

Bonetti's defense costs adrenaline. Frenzied Defense costs energy.

Bonetti's Defense gives you a 75% chance to Block stuff, and Energy when you Block. Frenzied Defense gives you a 75% chance to Block stuff, and you take double damage.

Bonetti's Defense can be used on its own. To even consider using Frenzied Defense you need Protective Spirit.

Bonetti's Defense doesn't make you die when the other team isn't retarded and is running good skill bars. Frenzied Defense does.

You have differences in downtimes too, but those are hard to compare because Bonetti's Defense is Adrenal.

Comparing the two skills is an absolute joke. There's really no point in it, either. Frenzied Defense is a terrible skill, and as such you should never run it.

Please use your brain. Read some of my past posts on why Frenzied Defense is bad. It's not complicated stuff, because most everyone has figured out at the very least that Frenzied Defense is bad, and I'll wager most people know it's bad because of the whole you don't need a stance to reduce pressure on you as a Monk because if you're getting trained you should be kiting, and the stance doesn't actually reduce pressure on you anyway because people go hit other things, then they shatter your prot spirit wild blow/throw your fenzied defense and spike you dead. Oh, and you're not forced to bring sub-par protective spirit if you don't have this very bad skill called frenzied defense on your bar... Yeah... But you go on running it. Have fun dying against everyone who's not an idiot. It'd be very cool if you just used your brain to think, but I can't expect it; you've been around on these forums for as long as I can remember, and you apparently think frenzied defense is good. I've seen players that after playing only a few weeks can understand that frenzied defense is terrible, and exactly why it is terrible (sure, it's been explained to them, but it's been explained on these forums countless times, and it's also a very simple deduction to make if you're not bad and play with frenzied defense on your bar against good teams).

/end hurried rant

Legendary Shiz · Oct 11, 2007, 11:39 PM // 23:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

I like it and won't accept it it is just similar to bonetti's defence but not adrenal and dosn't give you energy in return.

That's a terribad comparison.

Zui already explained why though.

elektra_lucia · Oct 12, 2007, 12:42 PM // 12:42

Well if you look at Age's comment, he said similar. He didn't say the same, and he already mentioned adrenaline/energy gain, so you just repeated what he said, to try prove him wrong. Nice, but ridiculous all the same.

Although, Age's comment is ridiculous too, there are still similarities in it which are:

They're a stance.
They're belonging to the warrior class.
They block 75%.
They're both bad skills too (lol). Although from the nature of his post he implied they were both good.

Also Zui, you say people should read your posts. Well, I don't consider myself an idiot. Probably a higher I.Q. Than you in fact so the only thing at the moment you have going for you, is that you're good at GW. Granted you make some valid points, but you litter it with trash. I know that gamers like to think skilled gamers are intelligent, but there are some unintelligent ones too.

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doesn't actually reduce pressure on you anyway because people go hit other things

You just defeated your own logic. again, I agree that FD is bad, but now you're just discussing it in such a stupid emotional manner and you keep talking about people being an idiot, yet you make statements like this? Well this is a sure sign of intelligence... Not. Please use your brain.

I mean, really, read it. If you're being trained, and you use something (whatever it may be) which makes them attack someone else, then you've reduced the pressure on yourself. Yes? Sure they may attack someone else in your team (which will probably have a higher armour level than you), you've still reduced the pressure on yourself. You may have delayed it for later, but you have reduced the pressure on yourself.

The shatter thing, you could get around that but it's a waste of energy.

Memento Mori · Oct 12, 2007, 08:09 PM // 20:09

More then one way to pressure a monk. It is costing you 15 energy alone to take this pressure off you alone, and then from there the second FD is out you are back to being pressured while you have to heal the new target that was being attacked as well as yourself in the near future all with 15 less energy. How logical is it to use 15 energy just so you can expend energy on someone else.

Just cause you think you have a higher I.Q. than someone doesn't mean you do either. You just did exactly what you were making fun of Zui for. You litter your post with trash on how intelligent you are as you criticize someone for doing the same. If hypocrisy is a "sure sign of intelligence" then you win my friend.

You also defeat your own logic. You say discussing a post in a stupid emotional manner is bad, yet you proceed to bash and your remarks stick to one extreme and consider yourself so much superior to everyone. And, at the same time I have no idea who the hell you are but apparently you are much better then Zui. And yes, I am another no-namer but I'm not preaching my intelligence and amazing skill at the game.

Anyway, step off your high pedestal and accept FD is a bad skill and every attempt at defending it fails. Also, those similarites between FD and Bonetti's are some of the most broad things I have ever seen.
Here's another one
Warrior and Monk
Both can wield swords
They both are in guild wars
They are both core

I understand that you aren't defending the comparison, but the way you defended it is just as ridiculous as the OP.

elektra_lucia · Oct 12, 2007, 10:13 PM // 22:13

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More then one way to pressure a monk. It is costing you 15 energy alone to take this pressure off you alone, and then from there the second FD is out you are back to being pressured while you have to heal the new target that was being attacked as well as yourself in the near future all with 15 less energy. How logical is it to use 15 energy just so you can expend energy on someone else.

A lot of writing, all very nice and all but if you look at what I wrote it is perfectly correct. The monk itself is not being pressured, sure it's ENERGY might be, being drained but if you get an attacking foe off of you, you are not being pressured. Note where I mentioned the higher armour levels.

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1. the exertion of force upon a surface by an object, fluid, etc., in contact with it: the pressure of earth against a wall.

So when one talks about being pressured, they mean to be hit, by an axe, a skill, whatever it may be. Nothing further needs to be added to that.

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Just cause you think you have a higher I.Q. than someone doesn't mean you do either.

Hmm, my I.Q has to be within the top 2% of the population just to be a member of Mensa, and my I.Q is probably closer to top 1% of population. So it's fair for me to think that but not only that, I can clearly see where his intelligence is lacking =). I'm not calling him an idiot by saying this and I am not being overly emotional by saying it.

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You just did exactly what you were making fun of Zui for.

Wasn't making fun of him. My post also wouldn't be how I would normally write to a rational person. I don't consider him rational, that's why. People should be treated with reasonable force, I was being reasonable.

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You litter your post with trash on how intelligent you are as you criticize someone for doing the same. If hypocrisy is a "sure sign of intelligence" then you win my friend.

You misunderstood my post, nice of you to defend him though. Zui says that anyone who loses to Age is an idiot. Zui also implies that it takes intelligence to be good at this game; therefore, it is insulting Age's intelligence too. Sure I said Zui lacked intelligence, but I never stooped so low as to say his intelligence was around the 25 I.Q mark.

I did not say I was skilled at the game, I never implied I was skilled at the game. I purely said I was intelligent for one reason he calls people idiots. Now he should learn to accept that some people that are good at computer games aren't as intelligent as they claim to be and vice versa. From an intelligent point of view, I can see Zui isn't that intelligent.

I want him to understand that if or when he replies to me, he should not feel the need to call me an idiot because the chances are I'm brighter than him.

It doesn't make someone an idiot just because they may lose to a certain person, character, group, whatever.

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You also defeat your own logic. You say discussing a post in a stupid emotional manner is bad, yet you proceed to bash and your remarks stick to one extreme and consider yourself so much superior to everyone.

Opinionated and overly emotional aren't the same. I wasn't even too opinionated, I was saying I was intelligent to defend myself from ludicrous claims later on. I was not littering my post with trash. Calling someone an idiot is offensive and it shows you have anger to someone. You see, Age wrote a small comment. According to Zui he is an idiot. So Zui repeated himself, wrote a lot of writing to someone that he didn't think would understand anyway. There has to be some emotion in there for him to do that, or why bother? I would understand if Age lacked intelligence, but an idiot is something completely different.

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1. an utterly foolish or senseless person.
2. Psychology. a person of the lowest order in a former classification of mental retardation, having a mental age of less than three years old and an intelligence quotient under 25.

Repeat, I never said I was good at guild wars, I never stated how I was better than anyone.

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And, at the same time I have no idea who the hell you are but apparently you are much better then Zui. And yes, I am another no-namer but I'm not preaching my intelligence and amazing skill at the game.

Don't you dare put me in the same category as you simply because you don't know who I am. I got a salary for pro-gaming, you didn't. I also have a Mensa membership to back any claims up I have about my intelligence.

Quote:

Anyway, step off your high pedestal and accept FD is a bad skill and every attempt at defending it fails. Also, those similarites between FD and Bonetti's are some of the most broad things I have ever seen.
Here's another one
Warrior and Monk
Both can wield swords
They both are in guild wars
They are both core

Ridiculous exaggeration's. Bonettis defence and Frenzied Defence.

One could block 50%, one could block 75%.
One could be a stance, one could be an enchant.
One could be interupted.
One could take long to cast.
One could need enchant removal, to remove it. One could need stance removal, to remove it.
One could belong to rt class, one could belong to warrior class.

There is similarities. The simulates are obvious to us, but for some they might need stating.

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I understand that you aren't defending the comparison, but the way you defended it is just as ridiculous as the OP.

Nice contradiction.

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so much superior to everyone.

If you take intelligence to mean superior. Then again, a truly intelligent person would be able to work out that intelligence isn't everything with that in mind, I never claimed myself superior.

In fact I never implied I was a better player than Zui, quite the reverse.

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Anyway, step off your high pedestal and accept FD is a bad skill a

Re-read what I wrote. You're being silly now

. I repeatedly said I agree that FD is a bad skill. I repeated it on purpose so the next person to argue with me wouldn't have an excuse that he didn't read me saying it was bad, but apparently you really did not read it was bad. Or you're so full with anger that you don't absorb anything I say.

If you're going to assume, make it based on accurate statistics. Otherwise it just makes an ass of u and me.

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You have differences in downtimes too, but those are hard to compare because Bonetti's Defense is Adrenal.

Comparing the two skills is an absolute joke. There's really no point in it, either.

Comedian! xD.

Age · Oct 12, 2007, 11:03 PM // 23:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zui

No, it's not--even if it were it wouldn't matter because no one runs Bonetti's Defense in Team Areans for a reason (Ok, so you can see it occationally, and I'll admit to running it myself in certain metas, but it's not common because it's usually not good).

Let's look at the differences:

Bonetti's defense costs adrenaline. Frenzied Defense costs energy.

Bonetti's Defense gives you a 75% chance to Block stuff, and Energy when you Block. Frenzied Defense gives you a 75% chance to Block stuff, and you take double damage.

Bonetti's Defense can be used on its own. To even consider using Frenzied Defense you need Protective Spirit.

Bonetti's Defense doesn't make you die when the other team isn't retarded and is running good skill bars. Frenzied Defense does.

You have differences in downtimes too, but those are hard to compare because Bonetti's Defense is Adrenal.

Comparing the two skills is an absolute joke. There's really no point in it, either. Frenzied Defense is a terrible skill, and as such you should never run it.

Please use your brain. Read some of my past posts on why Frenzied Defense is bad. It's not complicated stuff, because most everyone has figured out at the very least that Frenzied Defense is bad, and I'll wager most people know it's bad because of the whole you don't need a stance to reduce pressure on you as a Monk because if you're getting trained you should be kiting, and the stance doesn't actually reduce pressure on you anyway because people go hit other things, then they shatter your prot spirit wild blow/throw your fenzied defense and spike you dead. Oh, and you're not forced to bring sub-par protective spirit if you don't have this very bad skill called frenzied defense on your bar... Yeah... But you go on running it. Have fun dying against everyone who's not an idiot. It'd be very cool if you just used your brain to think, but I can't expect it; you've been around on these forums for as long as I can remember, and you apparently think frenzied defense is good. I've seen players that after playing only a few weeks can understand that frenzied defense is terrible, and exactly why it is terrible (sure, it's been explained to them, but it's been explained on these forums countless times, and it's also a very simple deduction to make if you're not bad and play with frenzied defense on your bar against good teams).

/end hurried rant

I am fully aware of what those skills are although i haven't had much of a problem in yes pve with FD and BD I am aware of it to probably been using longer than you and know exactly what it does.I have probably been playing Monk longer than you as I have been playing Mo/W since beta and back then I played it in The Halls of Heros that is right pvped only.I haven't tried it in RA but all my time as a Mo/W might help.How many Warriors in pvp carry wild blow anyways or the sin version not many I don't think?

elektra_lucia · Oct 12, 2007, 11:13 PM // 23:13

Never mind, forget it. Zui, I apologise. You are probably right to call people idiots, heh...

I guess I try to look for the best in people and I think to begin with it's best not to flame someone, unless it's in defence; however, the stuff this guy has written is just nonsense.

I wasn't really defending you as such, but indirectly perhaps I was. I thought (at the time) it was unkind for Zui to say what he did. So I spoke up on it. I wrote a lot, and then you go and write this load of... Interesting substance with a brownish colour?

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I am fully aware of what those skills are although i haven't had much of a problem in yes pve with FD and BD I am aware of it to probably been using longer than you and know exactly what it does.I have probably been playing Monk longer than you as I have been playing Mo/W since beta and back then I played it in The Halls of Heros that is right pvped only.I haven't tried it in RA but all my time as a Mo/W might help.How many Warriors in pvp carry wild blow anyways or the sin version not many I don't think?

Even if they don't, supposing someone removes prot spirit from you and then casts a nasty spell on you. You realise that frenzied defence only protects you from attacks right?

Also, using anything other than channelling in Hall of Heroes is bad. I would not say use channelling for GVG, TA, obviously but for HoH you can.

You repeat yourself, with the 'that's right pvped only' well you are special. ren0's a PVE only guild.

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I haven't tried it in RA

:/ *smacks head*

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I am fully aware of what those skills are although i haven't had much of a problem in yes pve with FD and BD

? Why would a monk be, being attacked anyway (in PVE that is)? Only thing you'll get attacked by is casters (and FD is great for that <sarcasm>) . Melee in PVE shouldn't get to you... unless you are doing something wrong =/.

Age · Oct 13, 2007, 03:22 AM // 03:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by elektra_lucia

Never mind, forget it. Zui, I apologise. You are probably right to call people idiots, heh...

I guess I try to look for the best in people and I think to begin with it's best not to flame someone, unless it's in defence; however, the stuff this guy has written is just nonsense.

I wasn't really defending you as such, but indirectly perhaps I was. I thought (at the time) it was unkind for Zui to say what he did. So I spoke up on it. I wrote a lot, and then you go and write this load of... Interesting substance with a brownish colour?

Even if they don't, supposing someone removes prot spirit from you and then casts a nasty spell on you. You realise that frenzied defence only protects you from attacks right?

Also, using anything other than channelling in Hall of Heroes is bad. I would not say use channelling for GVG, TA, obviously but for HoH you can.

You repeat yourself, with the 'that's right pvped only' well you are special. ren0's a PVE only guild.

:/ *smacks head*

? Why would a monk be, being attacked anyway (in PVE that is)? Only thing you'll get attacked by is casters (and FD is great for that <sarcasm>) . Melee in PVE shouldn't get to you... unless you are doing something wrong =/.

I said I played in the Halls during beta as a Mo/W treid it a few times as Mo/E when gave up Iway came in I gave up anyway I know channeling is good in HA but other secondaries work better in TA and GvG.I don't see any Mo/Mes anymore since the old booners day.I don't get in way of melee even in PvE but it is handy to have just in case in TA instead of using shield bash I would probably use sprint or retreat.

elektra_lucia · Oct 13, 2007, 09:32 AM // 09:32

So you don't get in the way of melee in PVE, cool. So you just feel like making yourself take double damage for the hell of it, I mean why bother with energy management instead.

So in TA, what happens when a melee class hits you? You put up frenzied defence? They switch target. An ele casts spells on you and you take double damage. What is your solution to this? If it is prot spirit (15 energy gone already). Then I say shatter enchant.

Channelling isn't a profession and don't try to argue it is.

Power drain better than FD.

Age · Oct 13, 2007, 09:11 PM // 21:11

I know channeling is not a profession did I say that in my post No and this thread is about self survival not about power drain.Power Drain won't do you a world of good when a Sin in glued to you even kiting away may not help TA is no Different than RA and I know how that works some offensive melee class will stick to you like glue untill you are DPed enough.The only survival skills are in /A and /W possibly /R

It doesn't take long to get 15 e back and the jop of the Ele is to harrass the melee class not the Monk or other castors that is if they know how to play the game.What happens when your Warrior is headed for that Ele?I don't find FD that bad as I was practicing with it vs the Master of Axes all you would need is Guardian or SoA.

elektra_lucia · Oct 13, 2007, 10:46 PM // 22:46

Quote:

I know channeling is not a profession did I say that in my post No and this thread is about self survival not about power drain.

Well this thread is about self survival not about frenzied defense.

Yes you did imply it was a profession, you've edited your post too though but here :

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I know channeling is good in HA but other secondaries work better in TA

I would live longer with power-drain on my bar than frenzied defense. I'm not saying power-drain is good for TA, or RA, I'm merely saying it's better than frenzied defense. It doesn't make you take double damage. So theoretically it fits this threads title more, no?

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The only survival skills are in /A and /W possibly /R

Oh? So protection doesn't help you survive? I'd rather have gaurdian than frenzied defense.

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It doesn't take long to get 15 e back

It does when you're giving out energy.

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and the jop of the Ele is to harrass the melee class not the Monk or other castors that is if they know how to play the game.

Well you don't know of migraine, psychic distraction, and lots of other spells from 'casters' then do you? Also, the ele would be a fool not to spike a monk if he was to take double damage. Sure generally the ele may go for a warrior but there will be examples that it is not the case.

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What happens when your Warrior is headed for that Ele?I don't find FD that bad as I was practicing with it vs the Master of Axes all you would need is Guardian or SoA.

So if I'm to take this as you've written it. Warrior goes towards your ele, you put up frenzied defense and gaurdian.

Then you get shatter enchanted, and spiked. Even though no melee was attacking you.

Sweet!

Please don't reply to that with

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did I say that in my post No

Because, actually, you did. Heh.

Age · Oct 13, 2007, 11:53 PM // 23:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by elektra_lucia

Well this thread is about self survival not about frenzied defense.

Yes you did imply it was a profession, you've edited your post too though but here :

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Not the way you look at it as I said secondaries not primaries

I would live longer with power-drain on my bar than frenzied defense. I'm not saying power-drain is good for TA, or RA, I'm merely saying it's better than frenzied defense. It doesn't make you take double damage. So theoretically it fits this threads title more, no?

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I would love to see how you would defend your self against a Sin with Power Drain.

Oh? So protection doesn't help you survive? I'd rather have gaurdian than frenzied defense.

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I would use them both

It does when you're giving out energy.

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That is what foci swapping is for

Well you don't know of migraine, psychic distraction, and lots of other spells from 'casters' then do you? Also, the ele would be a fool not to spike a monk if he was to take double damage. Sure generally the ele may go for a warrior but there will be examples that it is not the case.

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That is if a mesmer is in a team and if Ele know their jop right they go after the melees types or have them on themselves

So if I'm to take this as you've written it. Warrior goes towards your ele, you put up frenzied defense and gaurdian.

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Maybe

Then you get shatter enchanted, and spiked. Even though no melee was attacking you.

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It doesn't take to long to reapply and what would P-Drain do?

Sweet!

Please don't reply to that with

Because, actually, you did. Heh.

Yeah I did it is just hard to put a scenario together on board.

TheOneMephisto · Oct 14, 2007, 12:13 AM // 00:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

Power Drain won't do you a world of good when a Sin in glued to you even kiting away may not help TA is no Different than RA and I know how that works some offensive melee class will stick to you like glue untill you are DPed enough.The only survival skills are in /A and /W possibly /R

Power drain will help you more than frenzied defense will against melee against any sort of decent team. Basically, I'm saying that using frenzied defense against anyone who knows what they're doing is WORSE than doing nothing.

And no. There's no point in training a monk the entire game, because they can just kite and mitigate a huge amount of damage for free. Generally, you train the monk for a little bit to see if they're any good or not, and if they are, then you go to training midline to disrupt them while you try to turn and spike the monk or see that the monk is under pressure.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

It doesn't take long to get 15 e back

It does if you're facing a team that knows what they're doing and how to pressure. Every single point of energy is vital against a good team. If you can afford to waste 15 energy, you've already won either way.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

the jop of the Ele is to harrass the melee class not the Monk or other castors that is if they know how to play the game.

The job of the ele is to help win the game. Getting 250 damage lightning orbs on the monk does a lot to help win the game.

Wyat Hawke · Oct 14, 2007, 12:19 AM // 00:19

Can we keep this on topic? This thread was about selfhealers, not Frenzied Defense and other peoples IQ...

Legendary Shiz · Oct 14, 2007, 02:39 AM // 02:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

It doesn't take long to get 15 e back

LoL.

I wonder if you've ever actually played/beaten a good team in TA. I'd have to assume not when you make comments like that. 15e is almost a third of your energy pool for minimal-to-pathetic melee protection.

Especially now with all the mass amounts of enchant removal, a shatter does what...240 damage?

Basically I've come to the conclusion that you're bad, so I'm done with you.

the_deSKtructor · Oct 14, 2007, 07:16 AM // 07:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wyat Hawke

Can we keep this on topic? This thread was about selfhealers, not Frenzied Defense and other peoples IQ...

this topic is about self survival and fdef was suggested as a good/bad self survival skill

Zui · Oct 14, 2007, 06:50 PM // 18:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_deSKtructor

this topic is about self survival and fdef was suggested as a terrible self survival skill

Fixed.

12chars

the_deSKtructor · Oct 14, 2007, 07:17 PM // 19:17

I know it's a bad skill

Cammy · Oct 15, 2007, 03:53 AM // 03:53

We interrupt this drama to bring you breaking news: Disciplined stance, return, and guardian have all been known to prevent monk deaths. So has good communication and common sense.

We now return you to reporters Zui, Shiz, and Electra as they continue their in-depth, undercover report on human idiocy.

elektra_lucia · Oct 15, 2007, 02:38 PM // 14:38

Hmm, I just recently started hero battles. I'm bad, I think. Something came to mind. I wouldn't mind Zui's view on this, maybe could work in RA/TA.

Grasping earth...

It needs low points in earth. Being ele as secondary you could run glyph of lesser (maybe not needed for RA/TA).

5 energy / slows up foe 50%. 12 recharge.

Nice, no?