Curse

allience · Oct 02, 2007, 01:19 PM // 13:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kryth

Leeching, leaving etc will be punished, what don't u understand about it?

RA leavers being punished for GWG? It is going to happen, it should happen, for the other 3 who're left behind and the opposing 4 who get a free point, someone has to pay.

u will understand my point if u do something else besides RA. as for the leaver, well u still woulda lost because that person left coz either he was a bad player or he saw that the team is bad and doesn't have a chance to win.

u might have to consider err7 or computer crashes or sum1's mom unplugging the comp or dorbell ringing. on top of it u don't get dishonor only by leaving. if u get reported u also get dishonored. and there's a lot of abusive reporting going on.

for example /report alliance coz he didn't bring rez or he called me a noob. by the time support sorts through real/abusive reports it takes 24/48 HOURS. how would that help if u already have the hex on u? by the time support responds, it will be already off even if u were wrongfully punished. this system fails any way u look at it.

Avarre · Oct 02, 2007, 01:20 PM // 13:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kryth

Leeching, leaving etc will be punished, what don't u understand about it?

RA leavers being punished for GWG? It is going to happen, it should happen, for the other 3 who're left behind and the opposing 4 who get a free point, someone has to pay.

Pay for what? Trouble in RA is quite possibly the most insignificant thing in the game. Not being allowed to GvG, for the 7 people irritated by that, is, on a scale of inconvenience, far higher.

The idea is fine, it could have been implemented better.

Relnor · Oct 02, 2007, 01:21 PM // 13:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by allience

@lucifer, i'm not responsable for somebody else's actions.

So why are you whining about the fact that he was dishonored? Ever think about getting another body? The hex doesn't stop you from GvG'ing unless it's on you. You could have decided to go without him. You are in no way being punished, and that's all there is to it.

allience · Oct 02, 2007, 01:29 PM // 13:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Relnor

So why are you whining about the fact that he was dishonored? Ever think about getting another body? The hex doesn't stop you from GvG'ing unless it's on you. You could have decided to go without him. You are in no way being punished, and that's all there is to it.

it's obvious you don't gvg a lot. in GvG or any other form of pvp except RA, u DEPEND on the team. u can't go without a player uness u find a guest. good luck finding a guest monk for ATS when everybody else is also playing. and no, u can't just take a random pug because gvg is NOT RA and and any decent guild will have a lot of trouble if a core member can't play.

i'm quite sick of the lack of common sense ppl have. u just don't care for stuff that didn't happened to u. but it will happen to u at some point and then u'll be the 1 crying and getting no understanding.

i'm not saying to remove the dishonor, i'm just asking to NOT extend it's effects beyond the area of offense.

Lonesamurai · Oct 02, 2007, 01:32 PM // 13:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by allience

it's obvious you don't gvg a lot. in GvG or any other form of pvp except RA, u DEPEND on the team. u can't go without a player uness u find a guest. good luck finding a guest monk for ATS when everybody else is also playing. and no, u can't just take a random pug because gvg is NOT RA and and any decent guild will have a lot of trouble if a core member can't play.

i'm quite sick of the lack of common sense ppl have. u just don't care for stuff that didn't happened to u. but it will happen to u at some point and then u'll be the 1 crying and getting no understanding.

i'm not saying to remove the dishonor, i'm just asking to NOT extend it's effects beyond the area of offense.

And any good team will have back up players

Hell, my guilds gvg team doesn't play unless we have 10 people turn upto the hall for the match

lucifer_uk · Oct 02, 2007, 02:07 PM // 14:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lonesamurai

And any good team will have back up players

Hell, my guilds gvg team doesn't play unless we have 10 people turn upto the hall for the match

QFT
In fact most good teams have a cycle of people ready with different strengths for different opponents, all fighting for a place in the team.

And about the above comments about banning the person in the 1 area of offence and no where else, that's not how it works IRL.
If your an ass hat at a football match you will be banned from all football matches at home and abroad.
If your an ass hat in one of the arenas or venues I work at you will be banned from them all, nationally.

I think the punishment fits the crime in this case.

Lonesamurai · Oct 02, 2007, 02:10 PM // 14:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by lucifer_uk

QFT

In fact most good teams have a cycle of people ready with different strengths for different opponents, all fighting for a place in the team.

And about the above comments about banning the person in the 1 area of offence and no where else, that's not how it works IRL.

If your an ass hat at a football match you will be banned from all football matches at home and abroad.

If your an ass hat in one of the arena I work at you will be banned from them all, nationally.

I think the punishment fits the crime in this case.

In fact, the goal of my team is to be 16 strong, that way we can scrimm ourselves

RTSFirebat · Oct 02, 2007, 02:11 PM // 14:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by allience

it's obvious you don't gvg a lot. in GvG or any other form of pvp except RA, u DEPEND on the team. u can't go without a player uness u find a guest. good luck finding a guest monk for ATS when everybody else is also playing. and no, u can't just take a random pug because gvg is NOT RA and and any decent guild will have a lot of trouble if a core member can't play.

I do GvG a lot with my Guild and alliance members, so don't think for a 2nd I don't understand where you coming from. But at the end of the day there is always heroes and hench that can take the place of missing people. Sure they not perfect, but they better then nothing.

We have a select "core" players and happily accept people for GvG within the alliance to play, of course it bottles down to if you willing to accept a possible loss or not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by allience

u might have to consider err7 or computer crashes or sum1's mom unplugging the comp or dorbell ringing. on top of it u don't get dishonor only by leaving.

Note from Guildwiki:

Players who leave a PvP match prematurely will receive 5 dishonor points.
Any account that has accumulated 10 or more dishonor points is given the Dishonorable status, which is displayed as a buff icon on screen. While affected by this status, no characters present on that account may enter any PvP missions.
The Dishonorable status remains in effect for 1 minute for each accumulated dishonor point.

I understand getting 5 points from a odd err=007 or other disconnect. But that is only 5 points. Your guildies must have left a lot of matches to earn more then 5 points.

Since the points go away about 1 min per point, you telling me and the rest of us you couldn't wait to GvG when it went away?

Just how many how Dishonour did your guildies have? Becuase it seems to me, if its anything more then 10 points, they doing something wrong.

yesitsrob · Oct 02, 2007, 02:13 PM // 14:13

Quote:

And any good team will have back up players

Hell, my guilds gvg team doesn't play unless we have 10 people turn upto the hall for the match

Most good GVG teams have core players playing in the same roles frequently with the same players as they synergize well.

My gut feeling is your guild is bad at gvg. Brianc84 seemed to think that too.

Quote:

I do GvG a lot with my Guild and alliance members, so don't think for a 2nd I don't understand where you coming from. But at the end of the day there is always heroes and hench that can take the place of missing people. Sure they not perfect, but they better then nothing.

We have a select "core" players and happily accept people for GvG within the alliance to play, of course it bottles down to if you willing to accept a possible loss or not.

SoF GvG is triple digit rating GVG at the end of the day - an actual serious gvg won't accept a loss and will very unlikely go with heroes.

The dishonour system is far from perfect now as Guild Wars players in particular cannot police themselves. It is not difficult to get dishonoured without actually doing anything wrong, and as a result I don't think it should have been implemented to anything outside of RA and maybe AB

Marth Reynolds · Oct 02, 2007, 02:16 PM // 14:16

Must have been theire own damn fault.

i know there are jack asses around that might report for nothing, but you only get 5 points for leaving and when you amass 10 you will have to wait for the amout of points.

so basically or he was falsely reported or he earned it himself with 2 leaves from a arena.

and about how many points are we speaking here alliance?

Sha Noran · Oct 02, 2007, 02:22 PM // 14:22

You're all forgetting that ANet doesn't care about GvG anymore. They are far more concerned with what the majority of players play and are interested in, i.e. PvE, AB, etc.

That said, this system is sloppily designed and poorly thought out. It's so open to abuse that it's honestly embarrassing. I can't wait to read about the next monthly AT and how some teams had players wrongly reported so that they would be flagged and unable to play. It sounds, to me at least, like it's become possible to electronically meet a GvG starter in a dark alley somewhere and break his kneecaps with a baseball bat just before the championship. Nice job ANet, I'm sure all the bad players will love your work as usual.

RTSFirebat · Oct 02, 2007, 02:32 PM // 14:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by yesitsrob

SoF GvG is triple digit rating GVG at the end of the day - an actual serious gvg won't accept a loss and will very unlikely go with heroes.

The dishonour system is far from perfect now as Guild Wars players in particular cannot police themselves. It is not difficult to get dishonoured without actually doing anything wrong, and as a result I don't think it should have been implemented to anything outside of RA and maybe AB

Agreed rob, sadly heroes are not a answer in some cases. But sometimes you have to take things with a pinch of salt so to speak

But I do agree the current system needs tweaking slightly, maybe its a little bit TOO harsh in its current form. And on another note yes its rare that someone who does pure GvG would get the hex on them.

Again I can understand why the OP is annoyed by the situation, but maybe his guide should consider having backups available if need be.

Yichi · Oct 02, 2007, 02:37 PM // 14:37

It's designed and implimented poorly because of the fact that it puts too much power in the hands of the wrong people. While its great that we finally have a way to be able to report leavers and leechers and just all around general asshats, there had to have been a better idea than this.....

rohara · Oct 02, 2007, 02:39 PM // 14:39

i think its great that if you are a douche in RA/AB/whatever, you are also barred from GvG. the system has its flaws, surely, but i hope they don't change that aspect of the hex. its all pvp - play fair or suffer the consequences.

Trevor · Oct 02, 2007, 02:40 PM // 14:40

The Dishonorable system was put into place for RA. Why should it have bearing in GvG? I mean, yes, it still is PvP - but it's a totally different system of PvP. Leaving is -not- a problem in GvG, so why should it be affected by the system?

I'm not one to cry about people being carebears, but there's no way that you can argue that. It's like saying someone who lost their driver's license shouldn't be able to ride a bike, because it still is a mode transportation.

YunSooJin · Oct 02, 2007, 02:40 PM // 14:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lonesamurai

That used to be the case, yes...

But now there is no incentive to be a small tight knit group like that, no worl championships that only 8 people will be able to go to...

Now I run my guilds gvG team like a football team and have a B teams of subs

No, its not "used to be the case" - it still is.

People who seriously gvg want to gvg all the time. If you have SIXTEEN people on at the same times then not everyone will be able to gvg. Not to mention constantly swapping people in and out and not maintaining an overall coherence in terms of having the same people in the same positions will break your harmony as a team.

Yichi · Oct 02, 2007, 02:43 PM // 14:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by YunSooJin

No, its not "used to be the case" - it still is.

People who seriously gvg want to gvg all the time. If you have SIXTEEN people on at the same times then not everyone will be able to gvg. Not to mention constantly swapping people in and out and not maintaining an overall coherence in terms of having the same people in the same positions will break your harmony as a team.

This is mostly correct. There will always be 1-3 backups just in case, but as a whole, a tight knit gvg guild isnt above 12 in most cases unless its 2nd or inactive accounts or pve friends.

having 16 people available for gvg at any time = PuG guild.

Lonesamurai · Oct 02, 2007, 02:43 PM // 14:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by MistressYichi

This is mostly correct. There will always be 1-3 backups just in case, but as a whole, a tight knit gvg guild isnt above 12 in most cases unless its 2nd or inactive accounts or pve friends.

having 16 people available for gvg at any time = PuG guild.

How can it be PuG when we all wear the same cape???

Sli Ander · Oct 02, 2007, 02:45 PM // 14:45

I'd have to concur with most of what has been posted here in retort to the OP. It just doesn't make sense that someone could accumulate enough points to keep him out of a GvG match by simply doing nothing. Even assuming he left a match and err7'ed another, it's only ten minutes. In the long term it shouldn't really affect gameplay for the guild(as others suggested, take a henchie/hero or reschedule a couple minutes[if possible])

As for the actual implementation, I think it's right that GvG is included in the ban. That way they can't go to RA, TA, etc and make an ass of themselves before retreating to their guild for fun. How many threads would we have complaining about GvG not being included if people started racking up points, only to go play GvG until they disappeared?
And the only way I can think of to keep them from doing the same to pve(running to hide there) is to institute the hex as a type of death penalty(i.e. non-removable imitation of a certain amount of death penalty).

I'm sure later versions of the system will tweak it to a pleasant middle ground.

But that's just my two cents

BlackSephir · Oct 02, 2007, 02:47 PM // 14:47

If your guild is mad at something why is it dishonour? Why not tell them that the guy with dishonour screwed up by getting dishonour?