Curse

Bankai · Oct 23, 2007, 01:44 PM // 13:44

I like that list of fixes. Especially the monk fixes.

yum · Oct 23, 2007, 02:26 PM // 14:26

I like your LS buff but 1/4 c is too much,imo. 1/2 would be ok.
Divert hexes and BL are good. WOH needs to be self-targeting.The others are pretty random: mending, and healing hands buff???

Shmanka · Oct 23, 2007, 03:16 PM // 15:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by yum

I like your LS buff but 1/4 c is too much,imo. 1/2 would be ok.
Divert hexes and BL are good. WOH needs to be self-targeting.The others are pretty random: mending, and healing hands buff???

I think healing hands should be buffed, the mechanic is fine it's just HA abuse to take down Ghostly Heroes may ever prevent it from being GvG worthy.

moriz · Oct 23, 2007, 04:31 PM // 16:31

blessed light:
5e .75c 5r Heal target ally for 15...83...100 health and remove a condition and a hex. If a hex was removed this way, you lose 5 energy and heal target ally for an addition 15...51...60 health.

i've been pushing for this for ages now. the numbers can certainly be adjusted (as rust pointed out to me once, it will be rather overpowered if implemented in this form), but i would like it to keep the "lose 5 energy and heal additional X if hex is removed" mechanic, as well as the 5 energy and 5 second recharge.

however, the peace and harmony buff is a nono.

as black mentioned here: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/User_...ce_and_Harmony

an energy management elite for monks, especially one in divine favour, is generally a bad idea.

TheOneMephisto · Oct 23, 2007, 10:06 PM // 22:06

A critical needed buff for empathic is that it needs to have the ability to be self-casted. Otherwise, it's a bit too limiting.

Div · Oct 24, 2007, 02:01 AM // 02:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by yum

I like your LS buff but 1/4 c is too much,imo. 1/2 would be ok.
Divert hexes and BL are good. WOH needs to be self-targeting.The others are pretty random: mending, and healing hands buff???

There aren't any 1/2 second cast skills, which is why I have it at 1/4. With this change, WoH is mainly meant to be used at skirmishes and to provide good VoD healing, not necessarily be a perfect all around skill that completely replaces glimmer. Healing hands change may make it a decent prot in the heal line. Mending was meant to be random :P

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

blessed light:
5e .75c 5r Heal target ally for 15...83...100 health and remove a condition and a hex. If a hex was removed this way, you lose 5 energy and heal target ally for an addition 15...51...60 health.

i've been pushing for this for ages now. the numbers can certainly be adjusted (as rust pointed out to me once, it will be rather overpowered if implemented in this form), but i would like it to keep the "lose 5 energy and heal additional X if hex is removed" mechanic, as well as the 5 energy and 5 second recharge.

however, the peace and harmony buff is a nono.

as black mentioned here: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/User_...ce_and_Harmony

an energy management elite for monks, especially one in divine favour, is generally a bad idea.

Your blessed light change would make it way too powerful in terms of healing. PnH to be at 2 pips at something like 14 divine favor will limit that monk's ability to prot or heal effectively.

twicky_kid · Oct 24, 2007, 04:28 AM // 04:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by yum

WOH needs to be self-targeting.

Even if WoH was self targeting I'd still chose ZB. Its in a better attribute line and heals for more while only costing 3 energy when <50% hp. WoH is also outclassed by GoH for healing allies.

yum · Oct 24, 2007, 05:10 AM // 05:10

The thing with ZB is that it only works well if you are a lone monk, while with the new self-targeting WOH you can heal efficiently both in group and in ganking situations. Waiting till your teamate to drop below 50% to use a 3/4s cast life saver is kinda risky.

holymasamune's version makes it different from ZB imo

. It may see some uses though LOD is dominant now

moriz · Oct 24, 2007, 12:26 PM // 12:26

peace and harmony does not decrease the ability to prot. don't forget, prot works perfectly at 9 attributes. while there is a difference between 9 and 14 prot, the difference is often negligeable.

however, the ability to slap +2 energy regen on both monks is quite overpowered, especially from a divine favour spell.

Kyp Jade · Oct 24, 2007, 12:36 PM // 12:36

the difference between a 9 prot spirit bond and a 14 prot spirit bond is noticable to me

moriz · Oct 24, 2007, 12:53 PM // 12:53

i would gladly trade a 14 prot spirit bond for a +2 energy regen on both monks. like i said, the difference between 9 and 14 prot is quite small most of the time.

twicky_kid · Oct 24, 2007, 01:03 PM // 13:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by yum

The thing with ZB is that it only works well if you are a lone monk, while with the new self-targeting WOH you can heal efficiently both in group and in ganking situations. Waiting till your teamate to drop below 50% to use a 3/4s cast life saver is kinda risky.

holymasamune's version makes it different from ZB imo

. It may see some uses though LOD is dominant now

That still doesn't give me a good reason to run it. GoH and ZB are vastly more efficient than a self targeting WoH and a bar with no GoH. WoH you need the target to be at less than 50% for it to even give a decent heal. With ZB I can heal more and pay the 10e when ever I need it. The energy gain is the only conditional not the power of the spell which is where WoH fails. So, ZB performs better below 50% and above 50% hp. Lets not even begin comparing WoH to the other monk elites like SoD and RC because there is simply no competition.

Then on top of that you have to pump huge amounts into healing for WoH to be effective while your prot (which is the real power of a monk) or divine favor suffers (divine being about 1/3 of your healing power).

Div · Oct 24, 2007, 05:02 PM // 17:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

i would gladly trade a 14 prot spirit bond for a +2 energy regen on both monks. like i said, the difference between 9 and 14 prot is quite small most of the time.

The biggest problem is that it uses up a valuable elite slot for a monk. What are you going to sacrifice? Your LoD or RC? The common sense choice would be to lose RC and go with dual dismiss/mend, but that also means you'll be losing a lot more than just some prot prayers on that prot monk (which is now a PnH guy). At a fairly long recharge, PnH becomes quite exposed to enchant removal, which destroys the monks' energy regen, leaving you with a team with only one effective elite and half gimped prot monk (that can heal a lot with divine favor!).

Whatever, I don't have to convince the world about my changes, since they're not even going to be implemented. If you think it's imbal then sure.

moriz · Oct 24, 2007, 05:10 PM // 17:10

i think it's pretty common knowledge that the second monk's elite is mostly expendable, simply because there aren't too many choices.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/User_...ce_and_Harmony

i think plenty of people think PnH at +2 is overpowered, not just me. having 9 (or 11 in most cases) prot does not limit protting effectiveness.

having PnH removed certainly won't gimp that bar. it's currently quite possible to run that second monk WITHOUT an elite, and just use dismiss condition on the RC slot. the hybrid monk template is flexible and powerful enough that you can get away with it.

Kyp Jade · Oct 24, 2007, 05:15 PM // 17:15

Certainly no one is stopping you from running PnH, I suggest you run some extra defense off monk to support the PnH though

twicky_kid · Oct 24, 2007, 06:34 PM // 18:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyp Jade

Certainly no one is stopping you from running PnH, I suggest you run some extra defense off monk to support the PnH though

So we need to pack more defense (like there isn't enough) to support an energy regen elite?

Not worth it imo.

Kyp Jade · Oct 24, 2007, 10:02 PM // 22:02

well if hes not going to run a strong active prot monk, he needs loads of defense

Div · Oct 24, 2007, 10:16 PM // 22:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

i think it's pretty common knowledge that the second monk's elite is mostly expendable, simply because there aren't too many choices.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/User_...ce_and_Harmony

i think plenty of people think PnH at +2 is overpowered, not just me. having 9 (or 11 in most cases) prot does not limit protting effectiveness.

having PnH removed certainly won't gimp that bar. it's currently quite possible to run that second monk WITHOUT an elite, and just use dismiss condition on the RC slot. the hybrid monk template is flexible and powerful enough that you can get away with it.

Most people are seeing PnH on the current 10 second recharge cycle with +2 regen as overpowered. With a 30 second recharge (or could be even longer, maybe even 2 second cast), removal becomes that much more effective in dealing with it, and while it wouldn't gimp a monk bar, shutting down PnH (which is much easier with normal means than shutting down an SoD/RC) would leave you with a monk that's not nearly as effective as a typical prot monk. You talk about removing PnH as not gimping the bar, which is true, but then that bar becomes suboptimal. There's a reason prot monks take an elite and have 14 prot prayers.