Curse

bungusmaximus · Oct 12, 2007, 01:18 PM // 13:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mokone

name others that can interrupt properly please.

There's a lot of characters that can disrupt, one not as accurate as the other, agreed, but they can.

Mesmers have spell interrupts, and to some extent skill nterrupts. mesmers are very accurate too.
Sins have interrupt attacks, KD and daze, with daze you don't need to be accurate.
Warriors have interrupt attacks and KD.
Thumpers have interrupt attacks, KD and daze (doesn't count, technically speaking thumpers are rangers too).
Ritualists have warmongers/wailing weapon.

but I assume you already know this, so I don't quite get where you are going tbh.

moko · Oct 12, 2007, 01:25 PM // 13:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by bungusmaximus

There's a lot of characters that can disrupt, one not as accurate as the other, agreed, but they can.

Mesmers have spell interrupts, and to some extent skill nterrupts. mesmers are very accurate too.
Sins have interrupt attacks, KD and daze, with daze you don't need to be accurate.
Warriors have interrupt attacks and KD.
Thumpers have interrupt attacks, KD and daze (doesn't count, technically speaking thumpers are rangers too).
Ritualists have warmongers/wailing weapon.

but I assume you already know this, so I don't quite get where you are going tbh.

mesmers are very limited to attacks and absolutely fail when it comes to rez sigs. PD is the ultimate exception but PD still can't be compared.

sins cannot targetswap fast to plan your interrupt on a key skill (again: rez sigs), it's just a luck interrupt on the monks rof when you do 1234.

again, warriors cannot really targetswap fast enough to interrupt key spells like a ranger could. also warmongers can be evaded quite easily by just casting between attacks, making all of them interrupts LUCK.

rits give them on a melee-> see problem above. also, 2 classes to do one job.

neither of these can spread conditions.

relying on dazed which can be removed is fairly weak.

please note the word "properly". i'm not going to win any games if i try to use any of yours above to interrupt properly.

basically, my point is, rangers are just this important, and this good at interrupts, that "lesser" interrupters cannot fill in their spot, and are therefore more or less useless. the timing is important afterall.

bungusmaximus · Oct 12, 2007, 01:37 PM // 13:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mokone

basically, my point is, rangers are just this important, and this good at interrupts, that "lesser" interrupters cannot fill in their spot, and are therefore more or less useless. the timing is important afterall.

I knew I wasn't following you, the above is indeed true, except for 'lesser' interrupts to be useless. Especially if I'm on a melee theres enough to interrupt because I should be bashing stuff after all, spiking a monk and bashing their guardian is a pretty good example of that, it also has very little to do with luck.

But what you say still makes sense, the ability rangers have to interrupt skills AND spells at range makes them very powerful and to some extent 'better' then the alternatives.

and d-shot indeed wins games, disabled res siggie ftl

.

DreamRunner · Oct 12, 2007, 01:44 PM // 13:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mokone

if there's a meta when there's heavy damage, either defense or good offense is important, while shutdown will be pretty useless.

Signet of humility? Blackout? Seem's both skills are useful in both area's.

moko · Oct 12, 2007, 02:14 PM // 14:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamRunner

Signet of humility? Blackout? Seem's both skills are useful in both area's.

but in a really damage heavy meta? sure they're useful, blow up the monk, but you'd probably die before you kill them.

they're both really good shutdowns though -- blackout is so underrated.

DreamRunner · Oct 12, 2007, 02:45 PM // 14:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mokone

but in a really damage heavy meta? sure they're useful, blow up the monk, but you'd probably die before you kill them.

they're both really good shutdowns though -- blackout is so underrated.

Haha, blowing up the monk. But I guess it depends on the builds you are facing against.

Blackout a warrior and he looses all of his adrenalin.
Signet of humility can help stop eviscerate, SP sin spike.

I'm just saying that it can help defensively, and it can hold a place even in a heavily offensive meta. Probably in something like a balance build.

moko · Oct 12, 2007, 04:01 PM // 16:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamRunner

Haha, blowing up the monk. But I guess it depends on the builds you are facing against.

Blackout a warrior and he looses all of his adrenalin.
Signet of humility can help stop eviscerate, SP sin spike.

I'm just saying that it can help defensively, and it can hold a place even in a heavily offensive meta. Probably in something like a balance build.

of course it would find a place, but in such a situation i'd much rather have another defensive tool.

and yes, blowing up the monk. :P i was thinking off certain builds (smiteway, a certain build we ran ages ago also, etc) where using humility on something else but the monk would be..pretty useless.

though you kinda hit the keyword to this, and the whole topic at that, already anyways.

Quote:

depends on the builds

TheOneMephisto · Oct 12, 2007, 08:37 PM // 20:37

Nothing can shut down res sigs like a ranger, which basically makes them invaluable after you get the first kill, opening up a lot of room to take advantage of them.

But I stand by my first post regarding all professions and roles as pretty much equally pivotal. Everyone can make their pivotal plays, and all of those plays depend on the plays of other characters.

Dzan · Oct 12, 2007, 10:29 PM // 22:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by elektra_lucia

I'm sure it does. Not...

It does, we are right. Ranger's d-shotting the sig after the first kill and then tabbing to Savage the next guy's sig is usually GG to any but the best teams.

elektra_lucia · Oct 12, 2007, 10:36 PM // 22:36

It is a nice interrupt for when you kill one of the opposing team first.

moko · Oct 12, 2007, 10:59 PM // 22:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by elektra_lucia

It is a nice interrupt for when you kill one of the opposing team first.

that's beside the point. your point was that a dshot cannot win a game -- while it does. don't try to argue through "scoring a kill" first, cause afterall, it wins the game.

elektra_lucia · Oct 12, 2007, 11:14 PM // 23:14

Alright, I'll tell all my team to leave and I'll just bring d-shot. It wins the game.

There is no other interrupts after all. There is no other profession which is better!

pah01 · Oct 13, 2007, 01:19 AM // 01:19

One Distracting Shot can win a game in 8v8 too you know.

zling · Oct 13, 2007, 01:51 AM // 01:51

a good monk can make or break a team, however the monk alone isnt enough.
once a team starts rolling a good ranger can finish the match, however the ranger cant do the killing alone
a good mesmer can shut down the enemy monk, but without good damage from your team the other team will do just fine
a good warrior or other melee class for that matter can kill the enemy but without adequate support his team will fall first

overall the monk is likely the most important role, other than that its pretty versatile. however each person infact makes or breaks the team by doing his job well or bad

Dzan · Oct 13, 2007, 02:57 PM // 14:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by elektra_lucia

Alright, I'll tell all my team to leave and I'll just bring d-shot. It wins the game.

There is no other interrupts after all. There is no other profession which is better!

Hyperbole doesn't suit you.

The bottom line is, if my balanced team brings a ranger with a d-shot on his bar to TA, and your balanced team does not, my team will have a much better chance of beating yours assuming play skill is equal.

elektra_lucia · Oct 13, 2007, 06:19 PM // 18:19

Quote:

if my balanced team brings a ranger with a d-shot on his bar to TA, and your balanced team does not, my team will have a much better chance of beating yours assuming play skill is equal.

One: Play skill will never be equal.
Two: You aren't sure of your team having a higher chance to beat mine. I might use or make a nice build without the need for a ranger

.

Sun Fired Blank · Oct 13, 2007, 07:18 PM // 19:18

In a balanced template, you take a ranger. In a 4 v 4 environment, a great ranger with any elite can quickly force you on the defense. The ranger strives for the crucial d-shots that invariably shift momentum, and if the ranger is any decent, such crucial d-shots are only inevitable. D-Shot is fundamental; on a great ranger, you can trade it for anything that activates in .75 seconds or longer.

The midline and backline is highly undervalued in the modern TA. My sense is that in TA, violence often forces even a top-notch monk to inevitably die. In order to compensate, a lot of people run abusive junk and completely phase out a midline. The reason is that if your midline isn't very competent and properly constructed, you get crushed by the overpowered, offensive builds in the meta.

And so my opinion is that while it's very important for you to have a competent setup, and no single profession is ultimately more pivotal than another, if you have a midline, it is the breaking point for your team.