Curse

Maiyn · Oct 06, 2007, 02:00 AM // 02:00

LOD is fine don't be silly.

EASY pleak or dshot. Heal monks get owned by shutdown.. that's a nerf enough in itself. If we go by the logic that we've regenerated the energy cost by the time it recharges than like 50% of monk skills should be nerfed too.

i agree with everything else, builds are just way too defensive.. and personally I find playing for a super offensive build way more fun than healing a bunch of noobs who have been camping in a ward for 18 minutes.. :/

tricolorsp · Oct 07, 2007, 08:11 AM // 08:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maiyn

LOD is fine don't be silly.
EASY pleak or dshot. /

since that pleak or dshot works with pretty much all skills, ur saying that the only problem is shields up...right?

RhanoctJocosa · Oct 07, 2007, 09:06 AM // 09:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maiyn

LOD is fine don't be silly.

EASY pleak or dshot. Heal monks get owned by shutdown.. that's a nerf enough in itself. If we go by the logic that we've regenerated the energy cost by the time it recharges than like 50% of monk skills should be nerfed too.

i agree with everything else, builds are just way too defensive.. and personally I find playing for a super offensive build way more fun than healing a bunch of noobs who have been camping in a ward for 18 minutes.. :/

LoD isn't fine. Go read Ensign's posts, he's explained why so many times.

Vanquisher · Oct 07, 2007, 03:15 PM // 15:15

People who think splitting was extremely revolutionary when EvIL did it are wrong.

That is all.

Yichi · Oct 08, 2007, 06:33 PM // 18:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vanquisher

People who think splitting was extremely revolutionary when EvIL did it are wrong.

That is all.

People think this because before observer mode, no one credited splitting outside of the players that actually knew how to split. When people saw a guild running on observer mode actually running a dedicated split, the ones that knew virtually nothing about splitting, even though we all seen it and ran it before aka read the non PvP carebears, saw it as a revolution in the meta game as a new play style.

Greedy Gus · Oct 08, 2007, 06:45 PM // 18:45

I only brought up EvIL's splitting tactics with their balanced build because it was under the context of talking about how often teams do that. I believe that people are more comfortable splitting with builds that aren't specifically focused split builds these days, compared to before when there was a huge dropoff in quality after about the top 30 & their smurfs (top 100). Those guilds like 100-300 got wrecked by split strategies, and that isn't really the case now.

Of course I don't think revolutionary comes into it, I believe my guild was the first american guild in the top 50 to run dedicated 4/4 split in the world championship season in dec. '05 when most people had never heard of EvIL and obs mode was just introduced.

Yichi · Oct 08, 2007, 06:55 PM // 18:55

Many teams in the current meta will offensively split. You're seeing this more and more since the introduction of the NPC's giving a damage advantage at VoD, especially with the VoD timing only being 18 minutes. The problem comes in that most of the splits and most of the split defense are pure shit. The assassin class is to thank for most of that. Most of the knowledgeable splits and split defense in this game went out the window with the introduction of shadow stepping and a few select skills. Back in the old days, it actually required skill to split and skill to defend a split, which is why guilds like EvIL had so much success at it. Now, anyone can roll up an assassin and pick off one or 2 NPC's.

twicky_kid · Oct 09, 2007, 01:11 AM // 01:11

This comes from more options in the game compared to EvIL's balnace splits.

Power creep has taken away many strategies in the game.

DutchSmurf · Oct 09, 2007, 10:33 AM // 10:33

That we still have the same build actually says enough about competitive playing in GW. We have had our current boring build for some time already and just now people are slowly beginning to counter it. No idea how long it took, but 3 months sounds accurate. Part of the problem of course is that 99% of the people stopped thinking for themselves when observer mode was released. Which can also be seen at this forum. When someone asks for help with a build, you get tons of people saying "just watch observer mode and copy one".
As an effect of this we have Izzy who is having some problems. Part of balancing is also making sure different strategies are possible. So nerfing should be done with caution. Just look at Ether Renewal and you will see how it shouldn't be done. So he looks at the game, sees a certain powerful build and I guess writes down what he could fix about it if needed. However, he needs to give the game time to progress on its own first. In GW, that happens to take 3 months. In any other game I played it only took a couple of weeks max. Main difference is that in most other games you are playing on your own, so you can easily adjust. In GW you need to get 7 people to join you in your experiment. Now you would think the topguild (rawr, vD, etc, etc) would use the normal ladder for experimenting. Somehow that doesn't happen tho. Or not as much as you would expect.

twicky_kid · Oct 09, 2007, 03:08 PM // 15:08

They don't want to use their main guild for experimenting. Try it in a smurf first.

I would love to see automatic matching with no rating matches. Being able to challenge a guild is about impossible. There is no "hang out" place for gvg teams to challenge one another. Gathering 16 players at a specific time of day so you can challenge them is a feat in itself.

Greedy Gus · Oct 09, 2007, 03:52 PM // 15:52

Give me a break, no good team cares about experimenting on the ladder when they're getting +0 & +1 with their standard builds.

IMMORTAlMITCH · Oct 10, 2007, 10:53 AM // 10:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

There is no "hang out" place for gvg teams to challenge one another.

It's called an alliance.

DutchSmurf · Oct 10, 2007, 12:38 PM // 12:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greedy Gus

Give me a break, no good team cares about experimenting on the ladder when they're getting +0 & +1 with their standard builds.

Good teams should care about winning monthly tournaments. The more builds you can play well, the more chance you have to win it. Sounds like a reason to experiment to me. And I really doubt any good guild cares about +0 & +1, so that shouldn't be a reason to play their standard build.

And about that "It's called an alliance." Sounds nice on paper, but finding guilds of about the same skill as yours, playing at the same times as yours and wanting to use that time for unrated matches is almost impossible. For the top guilds everyone knows each other, so they can easily make a alliance. For everyone under that it just doesn't work.

Greedy Gus · Oct 10, 2007, 02:42 PM // 14:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by DutchSmurf

Good teams should care about winning monthly tournaments. The more builds you can play well, the more chance you have to win it. Sounds like a reason to experiment to me. And I really doubt any good guild cares about +0 & +1, so that shouldn't be a reason to play their standard build.

Sorry if it was unclear, I meant they don't care about losing on open ladder, so that's not stopping people from experimenting.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DutchSmurf

For the top guilds everyone knows each other, so they can easily make a alliance. For everyone under that it just doesn't work.

I'm pretty sure the context was in fact about the top guilds, based on your own statement "Now you would think the topguild (rawr, vD, etc, etc) would use the normal ladder for experimenting. Somehow that doesn't happen tho."

IMMORTAlMITCH · Oct 10, 2007, 03:00 PM // 15:00

Why would you experiment with different builds when you can just run 1 build with hyperdefense and spike yourself to winning 2 monthly ATs?

IMMORTAlMITCH · Oct 10, 2007, 03:03 PM // 15:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by RhanoctJocosa

LoD isn't fine. Go read Ensign's posts, he's explained why so many times.

LoD IS fine, the problem with it he mentioned it was the dependency on it, because of lack of alternatives and lack of good single target heals.

It's easy to shut down and if you manage to shut it down for a longer period of time it will likely be very damaging to the opposing team.

DutchSmurf · Oct 10, 2007, 10:05 PM // 22:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

Why would you experiment with different builds when you can just run 1 build with hyperdefense and spike yourself to winning 2 monthly ATs?

Because rawr is the best guild doing that, so unless you are in rawr you better come up with something different?

Dodo The Extinct · Oct 10, 2007, 10:29 PM // 22:29

Quote:

LoD IS fine, the problem with it he mentioned it was the dependency on it, because of lack of alternatives and lack of good single target heals.

It's easy to shut down and if you manage to shut it down for a longer period of time it will likely be very damaging to the opposing team.

That is so completely true. I played Mesmer last night in my guild for gvg, and we faced a balanced. Whenever I Diversioned LoD, their entire team collapsed. It was kind of cool to have that much power :P

LoD isn't imbalanced, but there should be alternatives that allow for more stratagies.

erk · Oct 10, 2007, 11:47 PM // 23:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dodo The Extinct

That is so completely true. I played Mesmer last night in my guild for gvg, and we faced a balanced. Whenever I Diversioned LoD, their entire team collapsed. It was kind of cool to have that much power :P

LoD isn't imbalanced, but there should be alternatives that allow for more stratagies.

I have played against and in many teams with similar experiences. Keep the LoD shutdown to win. It's kind of silly if you think about it placing the general party health responsibility on one player and one skill!

People don't even bring a backup like HP on a midline char.

moriz · Oct 11, 2007, 12:41 AM // 00:41

there's no room for it. not to mention, with the profileration of rangers in the current metagame, a 2 second HP is just begging for a d shot.