Curse

moko · Sep 20, 2007, 11:36 AM // 11:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Natural

I prefer Mo/E myself, so here's what I usually do. Keep prot spirit and guardian on yourself, then kite like crazy. A shield with +10 vs blunt works wonders as well. I'm sure I'm in the minority on this, but for arenas I prefer using ar +10 vs physical armor over survivor's. Ele damage is pretty much a joke in arenas, considering PS or SB, so other than conjure, almost all melee will be coming at you with physical. Being spiked faster than you can catch should not be an issue in arenas, so the main point of survivor's is lost. So if you punch the numbers together, that's 88 ar vs your typical hammer warrior, and 78 vs pierce/slash.

Not a fan of natural stride on a monk. Useless if they have a hexer, and versatility should be key. I prefer glyph Mo/E for the energy reserve to keep PS up 100% of the time, but most people are into Mo/W. It's just a matter of personal preference. If your team is bad enough that they have no ability to hinder melee, then you will lose eventually no matter what your build is.

Running PS in RA/TA is really bad.

i run Divine Spirit and 5e spells only, makes a better e management than Glyph for arenas.

Divineshadows · Sep 20, 2007, 01:18 PM // 13:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mokone

Running PS in RA/TA is really bad.

Agreed. If you take a 10 energy spell into 4 player arenas as a monk, then it better be spirit bond. It's superior to prot spirit in every way.

Lord Natural · Sep 20, 2007, 06:48 PM // 18:48

To each their own - I find it goes well with Glyph. It also serves a purpose as a cover enchantment for holy veil. If you can't cover your veil, it's an easy shatter and then you're basically helpless to mesmer shutdown. I've tried SB in arenas, and though I much prefer it over PS in anything but 4v4, it's not a skill that's easy to toss around in arenas. PS lasts over twice as long, defends against the spike, and covers veil.

Divine Slaya · Sep 20, 2007, 09:09 PM // 21:09

When I'm in RA/TA, I normally put a PS on my bar. As Lord Natural said, PS is great as a cover enchantment and lasts much longer than SB. I do agree that in many matches, PS doesn't negate enough damage to make the skill useful, but theres always those matches where it comes in handy.

Shuuda · Sep 20, 2007, 10:12 PM // 22:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifesRestorer

i bring shield bash and disciplined speccing 9 in tactics. that extra 8 armour ontop of the +18 you should be getting from the shield anyway really goes a long way.

against thumpers, try and count their hits. remember that hammer bash is a cost of 6 adren, so try to count around 4-6 hits before activating shield bash.
if you are unable to correctly predict the amount of hits taken by a thumper, press disciplined stance the moment he presses hammer bash to reduce the chance of being dazed.

Warriors have 7 adrenaline to charge for Dev and 10 for backbreaker. -3 adrenaline from enraging you should be able to predict them alot easier.
Warriors are slightly easier to predict because their stances are not up permanently. watch for frenzy, and watch for flail.

If you are still having problems, i have a detailed guide to the way i play monk in RA/TA and how to deal with certain things. It can be found Here at post 258.

Hope i was of some help, good luck monking

I've tried them two skills recently, and I just don't think their good, Shield bash is decent, but little help when I get piled on by everything. And I also find ZB inferior to other elites I've tried, SoD and SoR for example. Personally I think Dark escape and return are much better, since DE works on more than just melee.

LifesRestorer · Sep 20, 2007, 11:32 PM // 23:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shuuda

I've tried them two skills recently, and I just don't think their good, Shield bash is decent, but little help when I get piled on by everything. And I also find ZB inferior to other elites I've tried, SoD and SoR for example. Personally I think Dark escape and return are much better, since DE works on more than just melee.

its the fact you get the +16 always, +10 vs a chosen damage type that goes a long way.
the reason i run ZB is so i don't have to put energy management in my bar, it's just a matter of bar compression, which gives me room for both disciplined and shield bash.

people take armour forgranted in this game. while DA can cut damage in half for 5-10 seconds or so, the requirements to meet shield armour reduce damage alot more permanently. disciplined stance then further increases that armour by a massive +24. yes, that is used not just for melee but for all damage types.

the reason i dont like return, and really never had is because it is still a spell and doesnt help me when getting hammer bashed/devestated because i'm already on the floor and they sometimes interrupt it with the followup (heavy blow/hammer bash) which really ticks me off. shield bash/disciplined can be used freely, whether you're in midcast, on your ass or wanding stuff.

Shuuda · Sep 21, 2007, 07:58 AM // 07:58

Well, powdered smoke defence could work nicely since, it can blind all foe around you and can be used at any point. Return isn't my fav ether, but I do find it decent, and dark escape is helpful in a pinch (Halving all damage and helps kiting)

Shield Bash I found good, and did shutdown assassins with it, but I just don't like disaplined stance.

urania · Sep 21, 2007, 01:16 PM // 13:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifesRestorer

the reason i dont like return, and really never had is because it is still a spell and doesnt help me when getting hammer bashed/devestated because i'm already on the floor and they sometimes interrupt it with the followup (heavy blow/hammer bash) which really ticks me off. shield bash/disciplined can be used freely, whether you're in midcast, on your ass or wanding stuff.

thats why one has to use it before they manage to pull of their spike ie. as soon as u see a warr or whoever running towards u u just return as far away as possible.

Symbol · Sep 21, 2007, 05:53 PM // 17:53

Quote:

To each their own - I find it goes well with Glyph. It also serves a purpose as a cover enchantment for holy veil. If you can't cover your veil, it's an easy shatter and then you're basically helpless to mesmer shutdown. I've tried SB in arenas, and though I much prefer it over PS in anything but 4v4, it's not a skill that's easy to toss around in arenas. PS lasts over twice as long, defends against the spike, and covers veil.

But spirit bond actually does something useful while it's up. It's about a bajillion times better at mitigating damage from 60-140 damage hits. If people are regularly training protted targets for more than 10 seconds at a time and hitting for 140+, then by all means take prot spirit.

TheOneMephisto · Sep 21, 2007, 09:15 PM // 21:15

PS is worthless in TA. If you ever find a situation where it reduces more damage than SB, or even guardian/shielding hands/SoA, please tell me. SB only needs 2-3 procs to make it worth the 10 energy while it's almost impossible to make prot spirit worth it.

LifesRestorer · Sep 21, 2007, 11:21 PM // 23:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Symbol

If people are regularly training protted targets for more than 10 seconds at a time and hitting for 140+, then by all means take prot spirit.

Spirit bond is still better than PS at this point becuase PS reduces damage to ~60 from 60-140 or whatever while SB will go from 60-92 dmg completely reversing it, and 92-140 reducing it by ~50

in conclusion, reduce 60dmg constantly or be healed for up to 30, or reduce by around 50

Lord Natural · Sep 22, 2007, 01:51 AM // 01:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Symbol

But spirit bond actually does something useful while it's up. It's about a bajillion times better at mitigating damage from 60-140 damage hits. If people are regularly training protted targets for more than 10 seconds at a time and hitting for 140+, then by all means take prot spirit.

Yes, but the issue for me isn't solely the most damage mitigation. PS is both long lasting and an excellent cover enchantment. As the lone monk you can't afford to be easily shutdown, and I find it a problem keeping veil covered 100% of the time with a bar of short enchantments.

It's not like I'm saying SB sucks, in fact I prefer it over PS in anything but arenas. I just find PS works better with no other monk support. A 26 second cover enchantment that also makes many spikes non-lethal, isn't a bad skill, sorry.

TheOneMephisto · Sep 22, 2007, 03:35 AM // 03:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Natural

Yes, but the issue for me isn't solely the most damage mitigation. PS is both long lasting and an excellent cover enchantment. As the lone monk you can't afford to be easily shutdown, and I find it a problem keeping veil covered 100% of the time with a bar of short enchantments.

It's not like I'm saying SB sucks, in fact I prefer it over PS in anything but arenas. I just find PS works better with no other monk support. A 26 second cover enchantment that also makes many spikes non-lethal, isn't a bad skill, sorry.

So you're using that crapload of energy+ a skill for a cover enchant for veil? Why don't you just... recast veil? And either way, PS is pretty bad against RA "spikes," I'd honestly prefer to use shielding hands in RA most of the time even if PS was 5 energy.

LifesRestorer · Sep 22, 2007, 11:26 AM // 11:26

guardian pliz

Master Ketsu · Sep 22, 2007, 05:51 PM // 17:51

Superior and major runes = take prot spirit.

No health reduction items = Take SB

moko · Sep 22, 2007, 05:53 PM // 17:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Ketsu

Superior and major runes = take prot spirit.

No health reduction items = Take SB

using the first = you are bad.

Lord Natural, using cheaper prots with a better effect and a shorter duration are perfectly fine to cover with also. most teams are actually pretty bad and you can cover with rof -- guardian does a nice job versus corrupt, too.

Legendary Shiz · Sep 23, 2007, 07:01 AM // 07:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divine Slaya

I have to agree that running frenzied defense isn't a good idea especially with the amount of those deadly art assasins running around. As far as running shield bash, I feel it doesn't offer enough defense if run on a bar with no other defensive skills. I would consider running guardian on your bar.

I think he mentioned already that he had Guardian on his bar, but if it's not on there it should be.

And I agree with somebody mentioning d stance. If you're having trouble getting trained, spec it up to 8 tactics I believe, which should give you a 4 second stance. That should not only mitigate the spike/train, but also give you plenty of time to prot yourself and get ready for any damage about to come.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Natural

Yes, but the issue for me isn't solely the most damage mitigation. PS is both long lasting and an excellent cover enchantment. As the lone monk you can't afford to be easily shutdown, and I find it a problem keeping veil covered 100% of the time with a bar of short enchantments.

It's not like I'm saying SB sucks, in fact I prefer it over PS in anything but arenas. I just find PS works better with no other monk support. A 26 second cover enchantment that also makes many spikes non-lethal, isn't a bad skill, sorry.

Sorry but if you're using PS a lot as a cover you're failing.

Lord Natural · Sep 23, 2007, 03:37 PM // 15:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mokone

Lord Natural, using cheaper prots with a better effect and a shorter duration are perfectly fine to cover with also. most teams are actually pretty bad and you can cover with rof -- guardian does a nice job versus corrupt, too.

Not so. The issue for me isn't beating bad teams. If I'm facing a bad team, my monk bar won't be taxed anyway. It's playing that intelligent mesmer on my 29th win who's waiting for his chance to shatter my veil, interrupt the recast, and have his way with me. I know this happens (in arenas), because I do it all the time myself. Like I've said, I can live with PS's relative deficiencies even if it only helps me win that 1 match out of 30. I can also live with the 3 whole energy needed to suppliment PS on a spiked target.

Quote:

Sorry but if you're using PS a lot as a cover you're failing.

What is failing GW exactly? Not winning? I do just fine with my builds, and if you have equal success running yours, props to you too. Troll less.

Memento Mori · Sep 23, 2007, 06:56 PM // 18:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Natural

I prefer Mo/E myself, so here's what I usually do. Keep prot spirit and guardian on yourself, then kite like crazy. A shield with +10 vs blunt works wonders as well. I'm sure I'm in the minority on this, but for arenas I prefer using ar +10 vs physical armor over survivor's. Ele damage is pretty much a joke in arenas, considering PS or SB, so other than conjure, almost all melee will be coming at you with physical. Being spiked faster than you can catch should not be an issue in arenas, so the main point of survivor's is lost. So if you punch the numbers together, that's 88 ar vs your typical hammer warrior, and 78 vs pierce/slash.

Not a fan of natural stride on a monk. Useless if they have a hexer, and versatility should be key. I prefer glyph Mo/E for the energy reserve to keep PS up 100% of the time, but most people are into Mo/W. It's just a matter of personal preference. If your team is bad enough that they have no ability to hinder melee, then you will lose eventually no matter what your build is.

I have nothing to say about SB/PS discussions, other then I prefer SB

The point I wanted to make is regarding the armor inscriptions you were running. The additional vs physical would work in a large majority of the matches you play, but most competent frontliners can make a weapon switch from physical to elemental. Thats a very conditional way to set up your armor while survivor insignias are all purpose. If you want to put your faith in fighting poor players then I don't think getting in depth on your armor is unnecessary.

lacasner · Sep 23, 2007, 07:07 PM // 19:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Natural

Not so. The issue for me isn't beating bad teams. If I'm facing a bad team, my monk bar won't be taxed anyway. It's playing that intelligent mesmer on my 29th win who's waiting for his chance to shatter my veil, interrupt the recast, and have his way with me. I know this happens (in arenas), because I do it all the time myself. Like I've said, I can live with PS's relative deficiencies even if it only helps me win that 1 match out of 30. I can also live with the 3 whole energy needed to suppliment PS on a spiked target.

So you are agreeing that PS is worse yet you are still trying to prove to us that it isn't? What position do you even have?

Quote:

And I agree with somebody mentioning d stance. If you're having trouble getting trained, spec it up to 8 tactics I believe, which should give you a 4 second stance. That should not only mitigate the spike/train, but also give you plenty of time to prot yourself and get ready for any damage about to come.

Might as well spec it to 9 to get that extra oomph from a shield.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Natural

t's not like I'm saying SB sucks, in fact I prefer it over PS in anything but arenas. I just find PS works better with no other monk support. A 26 second cover enchantment that also makes many spikes non-lethal, isn't a bad skill, sorry.

DIdn't you justt say PS was deficient?

Overall, imo you don't even need SB or PS in TA these days, like people have said 5 energy quick prots are suggested. Most people don't run heavy spikes and just outpressure you, or at least in the experience I have had monking.