Curse

twicky_kid · Nov 04, 2007, 05:43 PM // 17:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorekeeper

wasnt a small or tiny part of the reason why people switched to Blight due to the sudden growth of shadow shroud spikes around that time? I think the shadow shroud builds were built against the dual boon prot dominance. Cant remember if they were widespread or not, it was quite some time ago.

Yes, shadow shroud absolutely dominated BP monks. It wasn't the only reason it fell out of favor.

Increased number of enchant removal added to the game with boon's 10 recharge. Sins forcing monks to pop CoP to survive.

Boon's main advantage was it was an excellent scrimmage build for its time. It allowed your team to split 4/4 with no problems. That is until Sin's came along and overloaded them forcing a CoP and wasted energy.

Then inspire nerfs came. BL was more effiencent removal with return and dark escape preventing more dmg than trying to heal through it all like boon.

Byron · Nov 05, 2007, 03:46 PM // 15:46

Gift of health
OoB nerf
Boon nerf
Inspiration Nerf

Knowledge · Nov 05, 2007, 04:31 PM // 16:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom Bangalter

this is incredibly wrong. BL monks were found to be a more interesting template as they were a bit more versatile, and boon was no longer needed since gift of health was so efficient and powerful. The good teams stopped using Boon because BL is better, not because they had some sort of 'insider information' that it was no longer going to be viable. Even if they had this information, wouldn't they still run boon if it was superior up to the point of the nerf?

Mr. Bangalter is correct. The rest of you however, are sadly ignorant.

When Blessed Light came out, Boon Prots were already outclassed. Blessed Light monks could split 4/4 just as easily as Boon Prots, but the Blessed Light bar provided bar compression, 4 pips of energy regen, and self-survival skills. The only thing Blessed Light Monks couldn't do was power through damage with a "buffed up" Reversal of Fortune due to the Divine Boon + Divine Favor heals (this is why I liked to refer to Boon Prots as Easy Mode Monking). Blessed Light Monks, as today's backline, relied on damage mitigation through small prot, passive defense (ward), active defense (blinds), and kiting.

The Shadow Shroud meta didn't make or break the Boon Prot, because good players brought Gift of Health on the Boon Prot, and gained a 200+ Heal through Shadow Shroud.

As far as Boon Prots and Assassins go, the Assassin bars of the Blessed Light "era," were primarily AoD/Golden Pheonix Bars or Shock/Falling Spider Bars. Nobody really ran Temple Strike, bars that included Hexes, or Assassins with IAS'. Contemplation of Purity was not needed, and I think that skill fell out of the meta long before Factions.

IMMORTAlMITCH · Nov 05, 2007, 05:40 PM // 17:40

CoP was only really used to counter shame and as self condi removal when mend ailment got nerfed, oh and to better manage MoR of course.

Captain Robo · Nov 05, 2007, 05:56 PM // 17:56

Quote:

As far as Boon Prots and Assassins go, the Assassin bars of the Blessed Light "era," were primarily AoD/Golden Pheonix Bars or Shock/Falling Spider Bars. Nobody really ran Temple Strike, bars that included Hexes, or Assassins with IAS'. Contemplation of Purity was not needed, and I think that skill fell out of the meta long before Factions.

In other words, when assassins actually required skill to play.

IMMORTAlMITCH · Nov 05, 2007, 06:24 PM // 18:24

Assassins never took skill.

Captain Robo · Nov 05, 2007, 07:21 PM // 19:21

Sure they did. Back then, if you made a mistake as a sin, you were so fragile that it usually meant your ass.

Sins used to be the noob class.

Now they're the noob tube.

Wasteland Squidget · Nov 05, 2007, 11:18 PM // 23:18

SP sins without Recall (which a lot of teams run) are considerably more fragile than AoD sins ever were. You don't have an easy radar-range teleport to get you out of danger.

SP sins with Recall aren't particularly more or less fragile than AoD sins, though they obviously hit a lot harder.

Sins aren't any easier to keep alive now than they were a year ago. The main difference is that people have realized this, and started supporting their sins with monks.

pah01 · Nov 06, 2007, 12:58 AM // 00:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

Assassins never took skill.

This is quoted to slam this fact into all those players that think different.

Joe

lacasner · Nov 06, 2007, 01:05 AM // 01:05

I don't think "skill requirement" arguments have any end or can reach any conclusion, so why even talk about it.

pah01 · Nov 06, 2007, 01:11 AM // 01:11

Personally I think that every assasin/ritualist/paragon and dervish should only be allowed 100 attribute points to spend in pvp. Also those people who play those classes regularly in pvp should be punished by sending deathsquads to their houses just because.

After this I think the developers who designed the skills and effects particularly shadowstepping/avatars/chants/echos and weapon spells should be tortured into insanity.

Joe

IMMORTAlMITCH · Nov 06, 2007, 01:46 AM // 01:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Robo

Sure they did. Back then, if you made a mistake as a sin, you were so fragile that it usually meant your ass.

Except you would cancel your AoD and teleport out of harms way.

AoD sins 'took more skill' than SP instagib sins because they could do more things by themselves and benefitted more from not being a complete idiot.

In essence they were still 'get in, 1234(5), get out' though, except their chain and the fact that they didnt rely on a hex (but on an enchantment) made them somewhat more versatile.

In conclusion: AoD sins required you to actually think about what you wanted to do, however doing it was still easy.

Teh [prefession]-zorz · Nov 06, 2007, 04:21 AM // 04:21

OoB nerf > boonerrssss

dies like fish · Nov 06, 2007, 04:25 AM // 04:25

I tried running it today on a pug guild. Rending Touch raped me hardcore.

IMMORTAlMITCH · Nov 06, 2007, 10:41 AM // 10:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teh [prefession]-zorz

OoB nerf > boonerrssss

No, they were still viable with EDrain/MoR in fact they were more versatile that way since you could also bring IHex or PDrain this way.

TheOneMephisto · Nov 06, 2007, 01:33 PM // 13:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wasteland Squidget

SP sins without Recall (which a lot of teams run) are considerably more fragile than AoD sins ever were. You don't have an easy radar-range teleport to get you out of danger.

SP sins with Recall aren't particularly more or less fragile than AoD sins, though they obviously hit a lot harder.

Sins aren't any easier to keep alive now than they were a year ago. The main difference is that people have realized this, and started supporting their sins with monks.

Except, as you said, no one ran monks on the split with AoD sins, so it's more like 2 SP sins + monk is a lot less fragile than an AoD sin with shadow refuge as your only defensive skill.

AoD sins didn't take a really high level of skill, but it was still easy to get caught if the other team payed attention to you and had enchant removal.