Curse

nighthawk329 · Oct 05, 2007, 03:04 AM // 03:04

It's been a very long time since I last played PvP, and I remember boon prot being everywhere when I last played.

Now it's replaced with ZB, etc. What happened to it? I was looking at the skills that would be present in a boon prot build, and I don't see any massive nerfs...unless I'm mistaken.

twicky_kid · Oct 05, 2007, 03:06 AM // 03:06

Power creep with more efficient monk skills.

Riotgear · Oct 05, 2007, 03:16 AM // 03:16

http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Game_up...September#Monk

Divine Boon: increased recharge time to 10 seconds, decreased amount healed to 15..60.

http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Game_up...day_October_27

Drain Enchantment: increased recharge time to 30 seconds, decreased Energy gained to 5..20.
Energy Drain: decreased Energy stolen to 2..9.
Inspired Hex/Revealed Hex: decreased Energy gained to 4..10.
Mantra of Recall: decreased Energy gained to 10..25.

That happened.

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

Power creep with more efficient monk skills.

The meta had largely shifted to b-light hybrids by the time the inspiration nerfs hit.

wuzzman · Oct 05, 2007, 03:29 AM // 03:29

yeah...the days when teams survived by putting dark escape and return on their monks, and sig of devotion was energy management (shivers).

nighthawk329 · Oct 05, 2007, 03:38 AM // 03:38

oh, and I was talking about the prevalence of boon prots in RA and TA, if you weren't sure. (b-light hybrids in RA/TA?)

divine boon: 10 second recharge isn't bad at all. If you keep it at least moderately covered, you wont ever need to reapply it within the 10 seconds. And 51 health at 12 DF isn't bad at all. If I remember correctly, the heal wasn't much higher anyway before the nerf. maybe around 60 at 12 DF?

I never used drain ench or energy drain in my boon prots before, so thats irrelevant to me.

Sure inspired hex had its energy gain reduced by 2. but I always used preveiling + CoP for those nasty hexes + conditions anyway.

and MoR reduced by 5 (this is going off the top of my head). But you can use channeling in combo with MoR and get very good e-management (at least in arenas, wars/sins love to go after you).

You can still use Offering of Blood too. But 20% sac sounds a bit much.

Plus I'm seeing that Mo/R boon prot + melandru's resilience build floating around the forums. I dont see how MoR+channeling or OoB wouldn't work if MR works.

Avarre · Oct 05, 2007, 04:33 AM // 04:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by nighthawk329

Plus I'm seeing that Mo/R boon prot + melandru's resilience build floating around the forums. I dont see how MoR+channeling or OoB wouldn't work if MR works.

That's because MR is not very good.

The superior skirmish capability of ZB is that it's a powerful heal that counts as it's own energy management. With all forms of BP management taking hits, as well as the direct power of it, it became less popular overall compared to other monk elites.

Div · Oct 05, 2007, 05:04 AM // 05:04

MR is like RA on easy mode. Pretty easy monking, and decent energy with great regen if you face hexes/conditions (much stronger than channeling or OoB)

Zabe · Oct 05, 2007, 05:10 AM // 05:10

Another thing than the hits it take, good players knew month or two before that it is getting hitted by nerf bat. Some maybe knew how it would be hitted, but by that time Last Pride [EviL] started to use their BL monks.

Thom Bangalter · Oct 05, 2007, 05:42 AM // 05:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zabe

Another thing than the hits it take, good players knew month or two before that it is getting hitted by nerf bat. Some maybe knew how it would be hitted, but by that time Last Pride [EviL] started to use their BL monks.

this is incredibly wrong. BL monks were found to be a more interesting template as they were a bit more versatile, and boon was no longer needed since gift of health was so efficient and powerful. The good teams stopped using Boon because BL is better, not because they had some sort of 'insider information' that it was no longer going to be viable. Even if they had this information, wouldn't they still run boon if it was superior up to the point of the nerf?

Zabe · Oct 05, 2007, 07:32 AM // 07:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom Bangalter

this is incredibly wrong. BL monks were found to be a more interesting template as they were a bit more versatile, and boon was no longer needed since gift of health was so efficient and powerful. The good teams stopped using Boon because BL is better, not because they had some sort of 'insider information' that it was no longer going to be viable. Even if they had this information, wouldn't they still run boon if it was superior up to the point of the nerf?

I had to leave for school and had exam in my mind, forgot to point that out. Yes, BL showed incredible superiority against BP monks. And yes, they had inside information.

Div · Oct 05, 2007, 07:37 AM // 07:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zabe

I had to leave for school and had exam in my mind, forgot to point that out. Yes, BL showed incredible superiority against BP monks. And yes, they had inside information.

Even though eE knew their ritspike was going to get the nerfbat, they still played it to the death. So the insider information had nothing to do with what they played.

Zabe · Oct 05, 2007, 07:53 AM // 07:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

Even though eE knew their ritspike was going to get the nerfbat, they still played it to the death. So the insider information had nothing to do with what they played.

Nerf will always put you think about new builds. But I don't want argue about it =p I stated before that bigger reason which I forgot to mention at the first post I did, was the superiority comparing BL and BP monks.

Thom Bangalter · Oct 05, 2007, 09:54 AM // 09:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom Bangalter

The good teams stopped using Boon because BL is better, not because they had some sort of 'insider information' that it was no longer going to be viable.

*ahem*

are we really going to have to do this or will you just retract your statement now?

deya · Oct 05, 2007, 10:21 AM // 10:21

The reason why good guilds quit playing boonprotters was ofcourse the reason it got nerfed way too much.

Blessed Light isn't anywhere as good as oldschool OoB BP used to be but still better option than the nerfed one.

Dzan · Oct 05, 2007, 10:38 AM // 10:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by nighthawk329

oh, and I was talking about the prevalence of boon prots in RA and TA, if you weren't sure. (b-light hybrids in RA/TA?)

divine boon: 10 second recharge isn't bad at all. If you keep it at least moderately covered, you wont ever need to reapply it within the 10 seconds. And 51 health at 12 DF isn't bad at all. If I remember correctly, the heal wasn't much higher anyway before the nerf. maybe around 60 at 12 DF?

I never used drain ench or energy drain in my boon prots before, so thats irrelevant to me.

Sure inspired hex had its energy gain reduced by 2. but I always used preveiling + CoP for those nasty hexes + conditions anyway.

and MoR reduced by 5 (this is going off the top of my head). But you can use channeling in combo with MoR and get very good e-management (at least in arenas, wars/sins love to go after you).

You can still use Offering of Blood too. But 20% sac sounds a bit much.

Plus I'm seeing that Mo/R boon prot + melandru's resilience build floating around the forums. I dont see how MoR+channeling or OoB wouldn't work if MR works.

It doesn't work, in TA a team with a boon prot will get rolled by a real team. In RA... who cares.

Zabe · Oct 05, 2007, 10:53 AM // 10:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom Bangalter

*ahem*

are we really going to have to do this or will you just retract your statement now?

If you did read the post, I already retracted that.

tunabreath · Oct 05, 2007, 11:39 AM // 11:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

MR is like RA on easy mode. Pretty easy monking, and decent energy with great regen if you face hexes/conditions (much stronger than channeling or OoB)

and absoltely useless when you meet wild blow (common on D/W) or any other stance removal.

Lorekeeper · Oct 05, 2007, 02:27 PM // 14:27

wasnt a small or tiny part of the reason why people switched to Blight due to the sudden growth of shadow shroud spikes around that time? I think the shadow shroud builds were built against the dual boon prot dominance. Cant remember if they were widespread or not, it was quite some time ago.

The boon prots could do nothing against it. I remember feeling helpless against shadow shroud.

but meh... maybe the shadow shroud spike was merely a passing gimmick that wasnt worth changing the monk bar for. My memory is hazy.

Zabe · Oct 05, 2007, 06:21 PM // 18:21

Don't know about shadow shroud spikes, but boon prots were still widely used in GWFC (In leipzig, like 50% of monks were Boon and others were BL, except for atleast once used healing light.). And as you said the "inside information", that I received came from now retired GW player, who participated in GWFC and GWWC and were in Team Everfrost winning the Celestial Tournament.

So yes, just again to clarify:
Blessed lights were noticed to be better than boonprots, but final blow to them were nerf to their energy management + healing through DB.

ShreeK · Nov 04, 2007, 04:08 PM // 16:08

I seem to recall a fair ammount of BP bars running CoP because it was (and still is) a fantastic cure-all. Obviously BL has the versatility of affecting allies, and energy management has gone the way of efficiency and passives/stances versus the active management that was once OOB/MoR/GoR (with obvious modern exception like bonder signets).
I personally feel that the nerfs to BP were relatively minor, but that newer abilities created more powerful, synergistic bars, and skills with automatic energy management were just better; skills like ZB gave the monk the ability to be superbly effective at proactive damage mitigation via traditional prot skills, and have reactive counters and energy management.