Curse

Shmanka · Sep 22, 2007, 08:06 AM // 08:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by axe

So if you nerf certain Hero AI for PvP purposes then it leaves the OPTION of bringing them but you will see hardly anybody using them.

Once they become "nerfed" and easily beaten the majority of players will stop running them, and leave only the truly skilled players (at that build) to run it effectively.

How is spending needless hours at an attempt to "fix the problem" and in the usual case could have the effect of creating more problems, more effective then removing the problem?

Your logic makes no sense, it's like releasing criminals or murderers that have commited crimes just to throw them in the slammer again.

Mirage Isnt Emo · Sep 22, 2007, 08:35 AM // 08:35

Man if anet would just remove problems in this game it would be so much better. Imagine if there was no defensiveway builds, or, the 2 bsurge build GANK used. Shame this will never happen

Servant of Kali · Sep 22, 2007, 09:06 AM // 09:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mirage isn't Emo

What guild do you even play for, kali?

What, you realized you're lacking in arguments, so you have to resort to argumentum ad hominem?

Shmanka · Sep 22, 2007, 03:21 PM // 15:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mirage Isnt Emo

Man if anet would just remove problems in this game it would be so much better. Imagine if there was no defensiveway builds, or, the 2 bsurge build GANK used. Shame this will never happen

Your right, we got the gold cape rawr didn't, congrats! Yay us we have a perfect record and was never defeated by half decent tactics.

If you lost to us or we lost to you we said gg. If your angry learn how to beat a vod build.

Mirage Isnt Emo · Sep 22, 2007, 03:40 PM // 15:40

Well Rawr goes under the category as, defensive-way, as most would know this.
Kali, what guild you are in actually does matter because you seem to talk about that you always play against heroway or whatever, which tbh even when I smurf I do not see. Either you are bullshitting me, or you are somewhere on the ladder that is pretty hard to get to. The guild you are in also has something to do with your attitude towards heroes. You may say "i just dont like playing against AI" but it really feels like you just feel inferior to them, but are afraid to say it.

Snow Bunny · Sep 22, 2007, 03:42 PM // 15:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mirage Isnt Emo

Man if anet would just remove problems in this game it would be so much better. Imagine if there was no defensiveway builds, or, the 2 bsurge build GANK used. Shame this will never happen

Yeah...your arguments are on par with Kenshin's. GG on failure.

Quote:

Yue, Kali's counter response will be "It doesnt matter how easy they are to beat, they are AI characters and I do not want to play against AI, if I did I would be playing pve" because that seems like the type of thing he would say. The people who say these kind of things are on the side of the pvp community that honestly doesnt matter. Because overall, heroes do not effect the game in any such way more then just overall bad players.

Uh huh? Lol what?

Make me a good argument, I haven't seen one yet. I don't care so much about mechanics. If I wanted to play a RPG where I fought AI, I'd go dig out my PS2 and play RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing FF7.

C'mon mate, provide a good rationale for heroes besides this bullshit about "bad players" (insulting GANK when you're r192 lololololol) or defensive builds.

rong626 · Sep 22, 2007, 03:54 PM // 15:54

remove Heroes/hencmen from game

Solved.

That might keep you people from whining

Mirage Isnt Emo · Sep 22, 2007, 04:11 PM // 16:11

Pretty sure this was my guild from last July to this may. We finished top 16 in 2 tournaments, but of course you wouldnt know that...

It's funny how you guys claim that our arguments lack anything, but then again yours have come to what, mocking our arguments? To be honest, go ahead and ban heroes, reason why, I hate low end pvp because crappy ranked guilds fail. Let's just kill the game for lower ranked guilds, I mean come on why wait any longer maybe if they kill the game now they have more time to work on GW2.

Zahr Dalsk · Sep 22, 2007, 04:38 PM // 16:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by rong626

remove Heroes/hencmen from game

Solved.

That might keep you people from whining

There would be an uprising, and a massive number of PvE players would be howling for ArenaNet's blood. And yours, for suggesting it.

GW2 sales would plummet.

Not going to happen.

Shmanka · Sep 22, 2007, 11:27 PM // 23:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk

There would be an uprising, and a massive number of PvE players would be howling for ArenaNet's blood. And yours, for suggesting it.

GW2 sales would plummet.

Not going to happen.

PvE players would uproar? We are NOT BANNING HEROES FROM PVE.

60% of this thread is already howling over ANet's blood how is this any different?

Nightwind Of Dwayna · Sep 25, 2007, 03:06 AM // 03:06

If this sentiment has been expressed already, my apologies. This thread has passed my arbitrary 8 page threshhold for reading every post.

GvG Perspective only: Our problem is that we're a low ranked guild (just off the ladder) with 8 real people. When we play opponents of ranks 500-1000 we give a good game, sometimes we win, sometimes we lose. We always have fun. When we play rank 2000 Heroway teams we usually get rolled (mostly due to our build's relative inability to counter Heroway effectively, other than Lordswap). I would prefer to be able to run a build that has a good chance of beating a human team, it gives me a sense of accomplishment. As has been noted elsewhere, beating heroway makes noone feel good. We see a lot of Heroway due to our rank/rating. We also see a lot of human teams.

Here's the main arguement. There's a poll up there ^^^. It indicates that there are more people that want Heros banned from GvG and HA than there are people who hold any one alternate opinion. GG. We can sit here and bat around differing opinions on why they should/shouldn't be allowed, but the Pro Hero crowd is going to have to realize that they are in the VAST MINORITY. Espouse your opinion as emphatically as you want, the realistic truth of the matter is that the majority doesn't care.

I've seen people say that "Heros don't belong in PvP" isn't a valid reason why they shouldn't belong. I would contend that the massive number of people who hold that opinion give it credence just by their sheer volume. The more paying customers that say "Heros don't belong in PvP", the further it gets away from being an opinion and the closer it becomes to becoming a fact. This is actually where the idiom "de facto" comes from. Srsly. Look it up. Better yet, I'll do it for you:

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=de%20facto

Oh, and last thing: micromanaging heros is not a facet of the game that deserves respect. It is a facet of Neverwinter Nights 2, and GW PvE.

Whether it deserves respect or not is irrelevant IMO.

Sneaky Mcsneaksneak · Nov 06, 2007, 06:51 AM // 06:51

Alright, I am sorry to bring an old thread back to life, but this is STILL a problem. HA has (to an extent) been fixed for this but GvG has not.
Heroes are a great concept, they really are, but when they are brought into higher level pvp game play, it severely detracts from the playing experience. Let's look at the problem here. The team that brings a few heroes, lets say 3, is starting out with a heavy advantage. These npc characters may not be able to spike with the team as human players do, but their reaction times and field of view is much larger than any human player could muster without pure luck. If the three heroes that the team brings in are a mesmer, a monk, and an elementalist: then they have an interrupter who can look at the entire field of play and interrupt any player it wants at any time within some reason (some skills simply cannot be caught without pure luck), a healer that can react to spikes with split second accuracy, and a spiker that can be controlled to never miss a spike (or just general pressure).
Either the hero itself needs a nerf, which would detract from pve play as well, or they need to be massively cut back from play. The name given to the style is Player versus Player after all, not Player versus Player (with backing from NPCs)

Div · Nov 06, 2007, 07:55 AM // 07:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sneaky Mcsneaksneak

If the three heroes that the team brings in are a mesmer, a monk, and an elementalist: then they have an interrupter who can look at the entire field of play and interrupt any player it wants at any time within some reason (some skills simply cannot be caught without pure luck), a healer that can react to spikes with split second accuracy, and a spiker that can be controlled to never miss a spike (or just general pressure).

Are you implying dunkoro is a better monk than I am?

The only problems with heroes that I can understand are spiritways for lower level guilds. The necros are amazingly good at taints and spreading hexes, but that build has giant flaws in that there is next to no prot.

A mesmer hero will have godly reflexes, but who cares? They'll waste interrupts on useless skills, and when something important is cast (diversion), it can't interrupt anymore. As for monks, if you really thing a monk that spams prot spirit to bring red bars up is good, then by all means bring a hero. Elementalist heroes are pretty bad. I'd rather have a smart ele that knows ward positioning, blind usage, etc. Plus, it's pretty hard to tell a hero over vent to take the thief and split.

iriyabran · Nov 06, 2007, 11:01 AM // 11:01

those mongrels have HvH
kick them out of gvg and ha ffs

wilson · Nov 06, 2007, 11:11 AM // 11:11

Removing them from high end PvP is the thing to do.

Razz L Dazzle · Nov 06, 2007, 05:07 PM // 17:07

I'd still like to see some top teams try the heroway on ladder and observer mode. I think the build is very overpowered, if it gets any momentum even kills on its own team for minions then it can be over quick. Not sure balances can split verse it well. Ranger is needed for interrupts. Necro heroes are better mircomanagers than humans, and this only further the problems of soul reaping that have never been fixed.

Kyp Jade · Nov 06, 2007, 05:29 PM // 17:29

It is very difficult to split against this build when you are playing on burning isle.

Akaraxle · Nov 06, 2007, 06:26 PM // 18:26

Limit to two is fine. Newbs on the lower ranks of the ladder can still fill missing spots with heroes, and scrubs will have a much harder time winning without two of the best players in the team.

Reverend Dr · Nov 06, 2007, 07:08 PM // 19:08

Is this now bitching about heros or bitching about spiritway?

Spiritway is a strong build that doesn't require a terrible amount of skill to play, but its beatable and still inferior to the balanced builds seen in HA.

Heros are terrible at the game. The only thing a hero can do better than a human is interrupt 1/4sec casts, this is the only thing; and has already been pointed out, the hero's target selection makes this worthless.

Really, the only time heros were worth bitching about was back during 6v6 when you had Player-Zhed-Sousuke-Tahlkora-Healer Hench-Mage Hench, but that's over with.

Elrodien · Nov 07, 2007, 01:31 PM // 13:31

I'm glad this issue is raised again, it doesn't deserve to be brushed under the carpet.

I think at the VERY LEAST they should limit heroes in gvg to 2. I would be happy to see them out of gvg altogether but with 2 its a happy-ish compromise.

pls listen A-net.