Curse

Bankai · Oct 30, 2007, 07:50 AM // 07:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tegato

Making WoH "target ally" might just kill ZB.

Maybe, maybe it won't. Don't forget that with high prot, you can also have awesome spirit bonds and shit. Also, GolE is pretty awesome with ZB.

But GolE is discussed in another thread.

Surena · Oct 30, 2007, 09:23 AM // 09:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom Bangalter

how come heal sig gets a mention but troll gets nothing? troll is absolute garbage.

Troll should last longer, not applied faster imo. It's unstrippable and the R/Mo template is still quite a good survival character.

Thomas.knbk · Oct 30, 2007, 02:18 PM // 14:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vaga

Since energy is clearly the thing limiting eprod runners comeback?

No, but the cast time on heal party is a pretty big deal. The thing really limiting them from coming back though is that blind won't protect your NPC's anymore.

Lord Natural · Oct 30, 2007, 05:03 PM // 17:03

The problem with buffing those monk elites in the OP, is there's still no reason to bring them over LoD. The only thing that would happen is people would bring a WoH or whatever in addition to LoD and it would become even more important to shut down monk elites. It's kind of a weird situation, in that even if non-elite skills are buffed, an LoD monk still has to slot in prot in order to remain effective in a split, so the actual number of these uber buffed skills he can bring will still be limited. I guess running LoD on what's currently an RC, and switching the old LoD to a newly buffed healing oriented elite would be an option.

Zuranthium · Nov 01, 2007, 10:23 PM // 22:23

I agree the Ritualist changes from the OP. Agree with Heal Party, although I think all party-wide heals except for Light of Deliverance should be half-radar range (amid the various other ways of party-wide healing that need to become viable, LoD’s unique trait that keeps it in the mix should be how it can hit full map range). Heal Sig needs the activation time buff but the recharge should go to 6 seconds, unless the heal amount is dropped a bit more (which wouldn’t be good; a larger immediate is more important). I also agree with the suggestions of 2 second activation for Troll Unguent. Here are my other ideas (I branched out into some defensive Smiting stuff and Rez spells too since it’s related):

ELITES:

Amity - Increase the AOE to Nearby, decrease the recharge to 20 seconds, and decrease duration to 5 + (Attribute Rank/2).

Currently it’s really weak. But, if it were a good Elite, would it actually be bad in terms of the game because of the way it adds to hex stacks?

Aura of Faith - Decrease the energy cost and recharge to 5.

Could possibly be used on a Monk runner, although it’s not terribly interesting.

Blessed Light - 5 energy, 1/4 cast, 10 recharge, increase healing amount by 10 points.

Suggestion by the OP is a popular one but Healing Light can (and needs to) serve the role envisioned there, because the current effect (even if buffed) is too vanilla for it to serve a real purpose. So, instead, I see Blessed Light as being a fast and efficient do-everything spell. Would compete for a spot on the bar of a split Monk.

Boon Signet - Increase the healing amount to the same level as Signet of Devotion and gain 3 energy if the target was enchanted.

Currently has a really cumbersome mechanic that doesn’t create any particularly great builds.

Divert Hexes - Decrease cast time to 3/4, take out the condi removal part of the skill, remove 1.....2 (at attribute rank 12) hexes from the target (healing for each one removed; keep the current healing amount), and gain 5 energy if only 1 hex was removed. This skill is immune to the effects of any hexes.

Becomes much more well-rounded; not as much pure removal against heavy hex teams but much more efficient as spot removal and more resilient to Mes effects.

Empathic Removal - Change the effect to “You and target ally lose 1 condition and 1 hex”.

For a split character. Allows them to double remove themselves or split the removal to an ally.

Glimmer of Light - Should always recharge instantly (ie. - goes right through Diversion in addition to actually having a recharge of 0) and be immune to effects that would cause it to fail, be interrupted, or become disabled....and you should be able to cast it while knocked down.

The ultimate fall-back heal. Might need to knock the healing amount a bit, considering how you can get around every form of shutdown and disruption in the game...the inefficiency of the skill is what would keep it in check. That infallible quality is what the skill needs to make it a unique Elite you'd actually want to consider using when compared to all the other options available (and there would be quite a lot of them, should all of the Monk Elites be balanced into viability).

Healer’s Boon - Remove the “next X spells” functionality, cause the spell to fail with Divine Favor 7 or less, cause it to end if a non-Divine Favor enchantment is cast, cause Healer’s Boon to effect all Healing Prayer’s skills (ie. Signet of Rejuv), and cause it to decrease the cost of Healing Prayers skills with a base cost of 10 or more by 0....2 (at attribute rank 12) points.

I don’t like the OP’s idea of a 10e and 15 recharge Boon; that Monk would get owned too easily by enchantment removal. Just leave it as a maintained enchantment but allow more synergy with Heal Party.

Healer’s Covenant - Should cost 1....5 less energy to cast Healer’s Covenant itself.

The effect itself doesn't need to be changed -- would be viable with other skill changes. Imagine this bar (after reading the other skill changes below): Orison of Healing, Patient Spirit, Infuse Health, Spotless Soul, Spotless Mind, Release Enchantments, Healer's Convenant, Distortion (spec of 14 Heal, 13 Divine, 3 Illusion...Distortion can be changed to another preference).

Healing Burst - Remove the “you lose 5 energy” clause and increase the amount healed to 60 + (Attribute Rank * 10).

Not exactly sure if I like this skill but it needs something.

Healing Hands - Decrease the duration to 8 seconds and decrease the recharge to 15 seconds.

An Elite Shielding Hands. Good for certain split characters, maybe?

Healing Light - 3/4 cast and 3 second recharge, remove a condition from the target, increase the amount healed to 40 + (Attribute Rank * 5), decrease energy gain by 1 point.

Another Elite that should have dual purposes...all-purpose heal and condi removal.

Life Sheath - Decrease the cast time to 3/4, reduce the recharge to 5 seconds, reduce the duration to 10 seconds, and fix the way it stacks with other Prot effects (ie. damage reduction from Protective Spirit, Shielding Hands, Reversal of Fortune, etc. should always be applied first before the damage is deducted from Life Sheath’s pool).

Incredibly annoying how this negates the effects of other Protective effects; the other changes on top of that push this into being a strong Elite.

Mark of Protection - Decrease casting time 1/4, recharge to 15 seconds, duration to 5 seconds, and it shouldn’t disable your Protection Spells for 5 seconds.

In comparison to Shield of Deflection this would take longer to recharge, wouldn’t prevent physical interrupts and adren building on the target, and would last for a shorter amount of time (although that’s not quite as important). On the flip side, Mark actually heals the target. Often for huge amount. Fair trade?

Peace and Harmony - Change it to a maintained enchantment that causes the target to gain 1 energy every 2 seconds. 100% failure to cast with Divine Favor 7 or less

Useful for a Smite Bonder. I’m wary about how exciting this character would be, though. You’d basically just sit back and use Blessed Signet and some party heals and then push up to use some Smite skills when needed.

Scribe’s Insight - Decrease the duration to 0 + (Attribute Rank * 1.5), decrease the recharge to 10 seconds, and change the effect to “you gain 0....2 (at Attribute Rank 12) energy every three seconds while under the effects of a signet; Scribe’s Insight refreshes every time you use a signet”.

To be used with Signet of Mystic Speed or Signet of Stamina (LMAO!).

Shield of Judgement - Decrease the duration to 3 + (Attribute Rank/2), recharge to 10 seconds, and energy cost to 10.

Sort of like Shield of Deflection for Smiting Prayers, but slower.

Spell Breaker - Drop the energy cost to 5, cast time to 1/4, duration to 3 + (Attribute Rank/2), and recharge to 20.

Clearly needs to be improved but we have to be careful. How does everyone feel about this one?

Unyielding Aura - Reduce cast time to 1, recharge to 10 seconds, unbug the skill so that you’re actually always getting full energy when rezzed, and let the corpse caused by the player’s death be exploitable for anything other than minions.

Would be great fun to see this become playable. OR WOULD IT? Is the ceiling very high for the skillfulness that zerg builds can require?

Word of Healing - Decrease recharge time to 2 seconds, cast twice as fast if the ally was under 50%, increase the healing amounts to 25 + (Attribute Rank * 6).

Making this skill self-targetable is not interesting when ZB is already in the game. It should be acting as both an Infuse Health substitute and a standard heal.

Withdraw Hexes - Make this a non-Elite, move it to the Protection line, set the recharge at 15 seconds, and cause it to remove 1 hex from all party members within earshot with a healing amount of 15 + (Attribute Rank * 3) if a hex is removed.

We need a couple wide-spread hex removal abilities in the game and there is already Divert Hexes around if an Elite hex removal is wanted.

Zealous Benediction - Move to Healing Prayers and gain 1 + (Attribute Rank/2) energy when the condition is met.

Really makes no sense in the Protection line

NON-ELITES:

Bane Signet - Decrease the activation time to 3/4 of a second.

Should activate a bit faster to hinder opponents that are spiking.

Cure Hex - Decrease recharge to 10.

I've used this a lot on my LoD and it's just not as good as Veil overall. Small buff wouldn't hurt anything.

Deny Hexes - Change the effect to “For each Divine Favor skill you have that is recharging or being maintained, target ally loses 1 hex (maximum of 3 hexes).”

Would mesh better with certain skills this way while also keeping the total amount of hex removal balanced.

Divine Healing / Heaven’s Delight - Decrease the overall amount healed to 30 + (Attribute Rank * 8) and heal all party members (half of radar range).

The actual mechanic needs to be changed. If you make the skill any better with an “In the Area” range, it just screams Ward camping. Which is dumb.

Divine Intervention - Change the trigger to “the next time target ally’s health would drop below 33%".

Currently not good because (1.) It doesn’t save someone from degen, (2.) It’s not good as pre-prot because you don’t want to let someone’s health drop to 0, (3.) When used to save spikes it sometimes won’t heal at all because your other Monk will catch the spike anyway.

Divine Spirit - Cut the energy cost and recharge in half, decrease overall duration to 3 + (Attribute Rank/3).

Synergizes better with Healer’s Boon that way.

Ethereal Light - Decrease recharge to 4 seconds and gain 0....2 (at attribute 12) energy when cast.

Possibly too much e-management for a Healer’s Boon Monk building up here but it seems necessary considering the limited nature of the character and the negative pip of energy regen they are working against.

Healing Breeze - 3/4 cast and slight increase to regen amount: 3 + (Attribute Rank/2).

Can't agree with the OP changing this to 5e and 5 recharge. Should remain spammable so the Elem (this is not really a Monk spell...change Mending if you want an efficient heal-over-time ability) can quickly get it up on multiple targets.

Healing Touch - Take the Divine Favor bonus out of the picture. It should have a set healing amount of 50 + (Attribute Rank * 5).

Probably not worthwhile enough for a Monk (although it would be better than it currently is); it’s more of a replacement for Troll Unguent on a Ranger bar that doesn’t need Wilderness Survival and can spec 14 exp/12 marks/6 heal.

Holy Haste - Decrease casting time to 1/4, energy cost to 5, duration to 1 + (Attribute Rank * 2), and affect all Healing Prayers skills (ie. Signet of Rejuv).

OP’s version of this skill is baffling. I can’t see any build running it in that form.

Holy Wrath - Reduce the energy cost to 5 and the cast time to 3/4.

Let’s you re-cast it more often, which could be interesting (ie. Put it on someone and then switch to low energy set until you want to stop maintaining it).

Judge’s Intervention - Change the conditionality so that it ends whenever damage would drop the target’s health below 50% and change the damage effect to the same as Smite Condition.

Smiter's Boon Monks are good to have around, let's give them some more choices. This thing is so crappy right now.

Kirin’s Wrath / Symbol of Wrath - Should be able to target any ally; reduce cast time to 1.

Too limited right now.

Light of Dwayna - Decrease the energy cost to 15 and return the dead party members with 50% health and 5% energy.

Much too costly and ineffective to ever be worth taking.

Live Vicariously - Increase the healing amount to 8 + Attribute Rank and heal whenever the ally attacks, not just when they hit.

Not enough of an effect to ever be worth taking right now.

Mend Ailment, Mend Condition, Mending Touch - Move to Healing Prayers.

No reason why that line shouldn't have condi removals. Especially if you want an alternate to Shield of Regen for E/Mo runners, since they will have to spec into the line for Healing Breeze. I really doubt Prot Monks will miss these skills - they have Dismiss Condition, Purge Conditions, and Purifying Veil to play with.

Orison of Healing - Decrease the cast time to 1/4, change it to an enchantment with an 8 second duration, and heal the target for 15 + (Attribute Rank * 4) if they take damage.

RoF for Healing Prayers. Way overdue.

Pacifism - Decrease the cast time to 1 second, the recharge to 20 seconds, and the duration to 5 + (Attribute Rank/2).

Giving it the Blurred Vision treatment.

Patient Spirit - 2 second recharge and increase healing amount by 10 points.

For Healer's Covenant Monks.

Pensive Guardian - Increase the duration to 5 + Attribute Rank and change the functionality to provide a universal 25% block chance against melee attacks.

Current effect of the skill is gross - way too R/P/S. This change is possibly not amazing either because it gets passive-defense-ish, but since it’s only a single target I don’t think that’s too much of a problem. I can’t think of any other function this skill should be serving when Guardian is already doing such a good job at what it does.

Protective Bond - Decrease the energy cost to 5 and cast time to 1.

Makes it more worthwhile as something you can continually re-cast and maintain for just a little bit.

Purge Conditions - Move this to Protection Prayers and cause it to heal for 15 + (Attribute Rank * 3) points for each Condition that is removed.

Just doesn’t serve a useful enough purpose without having the heal as well.

Purifying Veil - Remove 1.....2 (at attribute rank 12) conditions when this ends.

Makes it more useful for a wider range of Prot Monks. No, it won’t be overpowered for Monk runners...no more Zealous Benediction in this attribute.

Remove Hex - Decrease recharge to 7 seconds.

Just a slight buff...still feeling a bit weak in comparison to Veil. I suppose you could argue that this and Cure Hex are meant for NR/Tranq teams but I don’t see these tweaks making those builds overpowered.

Renew Life - Should be half-cast range, not touch range. Also increase the energy return to the same amount as Resurrection Chant.

Way too restrictive at touch-range as a 6 second cast.

Resurrect - Decrease cast time to 4 and bring the dead party member back with 50% Health and 5% energy.

Never worth taking in comparison to other options.

Resurrection Chant - Decrease cast time to 5.

Seems a bit weak compared to Flesh of my Flesh for a Mes. Don't think this would hurt anything.

Restore Life - Decrease energy cost to 5, casting time to 3 seconds, and increase the amount of health the dead player comes back with to be the same % as the amount of energy they come back with.

Totally worthless in comparison to other options.

Retribution - Cut the energy cost and casting time in half.

Lets you continually re-cast it better to keep active off and on.

Reverse Hex - Increase the damage reduction amount to the same level as Reversal of Fortune and have that damage reduction apply for the duration of the enchantment (like Life Sheath).

Becomes more worthwhile for characters who spec high into Protection.

Signet of Devotion - Decrease the activation time to 1 second and increase the recharge to 8 seconds.

Becomes less effective in terms of simply pumping out healing, but a bit more effective as a skill overall because of how it would work better with Deny Hexes, take less of the Monk’s time, and be less prone to getting interrupted.

Spell Shield - Remove the “your skills are disabled for X seconds when this ends” clause and decrease the cast time to 1.

A trash skill at the moment. Still not sure if it would be worth the 10 energy.

Spotless Soul / Spotless Mind - Make them self-targetable.

I see no need for these to be limited.

Supportive Spirit - Move this to Protection Prayers, increase the recharge to 10 seconds, and change the healing to damage reduction of 5 + Attribute Rank that is active 100% of the time.

Just horrible right now. Would make more sense as a high-powered Protection spell.

Vengeance - Decrease the casting time to 3 seconds, move it to Smiting Prayers, and set the duration as 15 + (Attribute Rank * 2).

Makes sense as a Smiting Prayers ability because of the damage bonus.

Vigorous Spirit - Remove the recharge time, increase the duration to 30 + (Attribute Rank * 2), and gain 2 energy when cast.

Perhaps useful as a party-wide enchantment on a support character or for a Healer’s Covenant Monk.

Vital Blessing - Decrease the energy cost to 5.

Becomes more interesting as something that you just maintain for a short while to keep someone up.

Watchful Spirit - Decrease energy cost to 10.

Interesting pre-prot and can double as a straight-up heal.

Words of Comfort - Increase the base amount of health that is healed (1 point per Attribute Rank) and change the conditionality for the extra healing to when the target is under 50% health.

Considering all the condi-related abilities that the Healing line SHOULD have, this skill is really unnecessary with the current conditionality.

NERFS:

Aegis - 15 energy.

Mitigates too well for 10 energy. This needs to go away or require more of an investment to use.

OTHER POSSIBILITIES:

Turn Watchful Healing and Mending into efficient heal-over-time abilities that heal players for a certain amount of health per second. I'm getting too tired of writing to think about the exact details of how that should be balanced, though.

If a Minion Master were to become a viable template in GvG, improve Dwayna's Sorrow a bit so that the character could provide party-wide healing.

~Z

Captain Robo · Nov 02, 2007, 12:15 AM // 00:15

I like a lot of those changes, but some skills seem a bit too powerful in their ability to get around diversion. :/

I'm more of a fan of Blessed Light operating like this:

Heal target ally for (10..115) Health and remove one Condition or one Hex.
Cost 10 Energy, Activation time 3/4, Execute time 0.75, Recharge 3

Change cost to 5 energy and functionality to ".. if a hex and condition are removed you lose 5 energy", increase recharge to 4s.

Zuranthium · Nov 02, 2007, 01:10 AM // 01:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Robo

I like a lot of those changes, but some skills seem a bit too powerful in their ability to get around diversion. :/

Maybe, and I noted that (for Glimmer anyway). It's hard to just talk about all of this. Need to actually get a feel for it in game, which is impossible unless a system is set up where interesting changes are constantly made and then fine-tuned based upon what the actual players have demonstrated.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Robo

I'm more of a fan of Blessed Light operating like this:

Heal target ally for (10..115) Health and remove one Condition or one Hex.
Cost 10 Energy, Activation time 3/4, Execute time 0.75, Recharge 3

Change cost to 5 energy and functionality to ".. if a hex and condition are removed you lose 5 energy", increase recharge to 4s.

People basically want an Elite Dismiss Condition. I gave that job to Healing Light, as it's an entirely bland Elite and a perfect candidate for the job. Which, in turn, frees up Blessed Light to other possibilities (ie. being a quick, efficient all-purpose spell).

~Z

twicky_kid · Nov 02, 2007, 01:52 AM // 01:52