Curse

Seraphim of Chaos · Nov 04, 2007, 12:20 AM // 00:20

I've been using Siphon Strength on my Assa bar as of late; I'm loving it. However, it seriously needs to get nerfed as it is. :> Just speccing into 8+1 Deadly Arts make Scythes and Hammers feel like wand damage and Swords and Axes are even less. >.<

It needs a nerf, but I hope it doesn't get one. =p

Discuss?

intarwebs · Nov 04, 2007, 12:31 AM // 00:31

I'm not sure, it seems like a pretty important hex, and sins don't have a lot of parasitic bond-ish hexes to cover it up.

Seraphim of Chaos · Nov 04, 2007, 12:32 AM // 00:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by intarwebs

I'm not sure, it seems like a pretty important hex, and sins don't have a lot of parasitic bond-ish hexes to cover it up.

They have Siphon Speed, which I run, too and is imba. =p

Riotgear · Nov 04, 2007, 04:29 AM // 04:29

I could never really find a place for Siphon Strength because it seems primarily useful for gimping warriors, yet it's on a class that's better for ganking squishies.

Seraphim of Chaos · Nov 04, 2007, 06:12 AM // 06:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

I could never really find a place for Siphon Strength because it seems primarily useful for gimping warriors, yet it's on a class that's better for ganking squishies.

Well, it's primarily good for gimping just about any damage class above wand, be it Para, Warrior, Assassin, Dervish, or Ranger.

Riotgear · Nov 04, 2007, 08:06 AM // 08:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seraphim of Chaos

Well, it's primarily good for gimping just about any damage class above wand, be it Para, Warrior, Assassin, Dervish, or Ranger.

The point is that it's hard to make a synergistic bar when your elite runs counter to what the entire rest of your class is designed to do.

D Fault · Nov 04, 2007, 08:57 AM // 08:57

Ran something similar to this once as part of a hex build.
Basically linebacks a melee, assists on spikes, and can help on a split.

[skill]siphon strength[/skill][skill]siphon speed[/skill][skill]black spider strike[/skill][skill]twisting fangs[/skill][skill]shadow walk[/skill][skill]dash[/skill][skill]feigned neutrality[/skill][skill]resurrection signet[/skill]

Patccmoi · Nov 04, 2007, 05:03 PM // 17:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

The point is that it's hard to make a synergistic bar when your elite runs counter to what the entire rest of your class is designed to do.

Siphon Strength
Siphon Speed
BLS
BSS
DB
Impale / extra survival (feigned, mend touch, etc.)
Dash / Tiger Stance
Shadow Walk

We ran that a while ago and it was actually a very strong build. Totally owned other sins/warriors in split (Siphon Strength one and he's done) while at stand you could seriously annoy their frontline with double Siphon on them. Shadow Walk when you wanted to spike assist someone in their backline, otherwise stay near their frontline/midline at worse.

Worked seriously well and i think it's a solid build. Had a lot of utility and was good all around. For the rest of the team iirc we had 1 Mes, 1 Necro, 1 War/Derv (depending), 1 Ranger, 2 Monks and runner.

Siphon Strength really wins splits. Enemy split sins can't do jack when it's on since their full combo does around 100 damage. And while you can't go through block, you can combo often enough and your bar isn't entirely useless when your combo fails since you're hexing a lot. With the buffed Rigor Mortis, that could be useful to fit on Necro too for helping you combo mid battle.

Seraphim of Chaos · Nov 04, 2007, 10:59 PM // 22:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

The point is that it's hard to make a synergistic bar when your elite runs counter to what the entire rest of your class is designed to do.

It is a very synergistic skill. It allows you to gimp warriors in ways that necros can't. Necro curses can reduce attack speed and accuracy. However, the damage reduction from Siphon Strength is constant; at 10 second recharge, it is very very handy.

I ran a Siphon Strength bar in TA awhile back. We ran dual sins with SS and a unblockable Assa. SS bar had the old BoA off/dual/off/dual combo with Siphon Speed and Siphon Strength. We also had a ritualist and monk. Siphon Speed and Siphon Strength rendered almost ALL damage classes just about useless.

TheOneMephisto · Nov 05, 2007, 02:30 AM // 02:30

It's a good skill, but it's gimped in that it almost has to be run in a hex build, and in most hex builds it would just be better to either run either another melee or another hexer rather than a half-both.

Otherwise the fact that it has to be in a hex build, it absolutely rocks. Everywhere I've played that build outside of GvG, I've just felt incredibly powerful, especially in skirmishes. If the hex sticks it's pretty impressive.

Seraphim of Chaos · Nov 06, 2007, 02:06 AM // 02:06

So it needs a nerf, amirite?

qwe4rty · Nov 07, 2007, 12:01 AM // 00:01

No.

It is a skill that does its job, that sees hardly any use at all. There is enough hex removal to keep this off a character in gvg unless there is a huge dedicated hex build, which just isn't happening nowadays.

TheOneMephisto · Nov 07, 2007, 12:04 AM // 00:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by qwe4rty

No.

It is a skill that does its job, that sees hardly any use at all. There is enough hex removal to keep this off a character in gvg unless there is a huge dedicated hex build, which just isn't happening nowadays.

And the fact that any dedicated hex build probably has enough anti-melee hexes in it already that it would be better just to run another melee.

ensoriki · Nov 07, 2007, 12:15 AM // 00:15

Have you seen the energy cost?
Heres the 2 problems with Siphon strength

Energy, Activation time.

If it activated in 3/4's or 1/4, it might never leave my bar, good in many situations. relieves pressure off your monk, improves YOUR DPS (increases critical rate)

You can just cast it on someone attacking the Guild Lord, and then deal with someone else.

If the energy or Activation changed >.>

Also Siphon Strength provides a REASOn

To use Deadly arts 12/13 and Dagger mastery instead of Critical strikes 12/13 and Dagger mastery .

It helps to create more variants in Sin's, changing them from just spikers/ daze and interrupters (exhausting assault and the daze moves) To Anti Melee, and can support their monk better.

Your monk isn't going to complain much when you stop that 600 damage spike on them or someone else on your own!

In Conclusion
Its Great the way it is, just because somethings strong doesnt mean its overpowered. It just means its Great. Great and Broken are different.
If the energy cost was 5/10 was changed to a skill and had 5 recharge it be hell broken >.>
Actually just reducing the energy would make it far more useful.

It's not an appealing skill because

ENERGY IS HUGE!!!!!!!!!!!! >.> A monk could use it to stop spikes in a Mo/A build but look at the energy cost!!!

TheOneMephisto · Nov 07, 2007, 12:22 AM // 00:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by ensoriki

It's not an appealing skill because

ENERGY IS HUGE!!!!!!!!!!!! >.> A monk could use it to stop spikes in a Mo/A build but look at the energy cost!!!

Energy cost isn't really that big of a problem because it's fairly easy for the sin to just lineback the warrior that he just hexed and get massive energy returns from crit strikes (even running 8 crit). The main problem is just that it's a hex, and at the stand it'll all just get removed.

Of course, at lower energy I'd be seriously scared of deadly paradox siphon strength/siphon speed/(cover hex like parasitic maybe?) spammers.

ensoriki · Nov 07, 2007, 01:50 AM // 01:50

like I said, the energy cost makes it unappealing
if your a DA sin that hefty 15 energy is a real pain in the ass, and theres no elite energy management
If your a dagger sin you basically have to use Golden Lotus or Black Lotus Right after or your combo suffers from waiting for energy to come back.

Having to make it so that, you either get a lucky critical hit in and get some energy back...or bring the (what is it 3) energy skills a sin has demoralizes the idea of variety.

Case in Point, if it was 5 energy, you'd see it everywhere, on everyone and its mother >.>7 days a week 24/7 >.>
Why?
Sin: Ha I can Shutdown almost all classes (except wands and magic cast) and support my monk, AND I get 33% critical boost...for 5 energy? Holy shit.

DA sin:...Hmm Shutdown, im a caster so they'll probably go after me, with Deadly paradox the casting time is shorter...can cast it multiple times.... shuts down melee....for 5 energy? Holy shit.

Mesmer: 5 energy....holy shit

Monk:...hey mesmer wassup
Mesmer: I have this skill that owns for 5 energy
Monk: Holy shit >.>

Anyways...you say sin's have the energy management, but thats really 1 of the reason's they won't take this skill... the energy Sure Temple strike has 15 energy too, but its a lead attack with this you still have to cast lead/offhand Dual or off hand dual offhand dual >.> Unless your using Lotus skills the energy does affect.

The skills balanced because the fact its energy is so high >.> but if you of course prepared for such high energy costs.... it's a great skill to take. (and if you have the attributes to pump in!)

Overly long post ftw.

Riotgear · Nov 07, 2007, 06:52 AM // 06:52

If Siphon Strength was 5e I'd be putting it on a mesmer ASAP.

TheOneMephisto · Nov 07, 2007, 01:18 PM // 13:18

If Siphon Strength were 5e I'm pretty sure that it would be the new 5e Bsurge... As in anyone with a free elite would use it and I could have fun in RA again with a siphon strength monk.

ensoriki · Nov 07, 2007, 09:32 PM // 21:32

Anyways we're in agreement? Siphon Speed is Balanced??

At 10 energy it would would probably create the scenario where hex removal has to double. For it would shutdown all your melee just as well as blind will, but is also a hex and many skills have Hex Functions and boost critical >.>

Seraphim of Chaos · Nov 08, 2007, 01:24 AM // 01:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by ensoriki

Anyways we're in agreement? Siphon Speed is Balanced??

At 10 energy it would would probably create the scenario where hex removal has to double. For it would shutdown all your melee just as well as blind will, but is also a hex and many skills have Hex Functions and boost critical >.>

Do you mean Siphon Strength? If not, Siphon Speed is very very broken.