Curse

IMMORTAlMITCH · Nov 06, 2007, 05:07 PM // 17:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOneMephisto

It would probably be preferable to just use dual LoDs at the stand and use your ZB monk to run. If you use the ZB monk at the stand and let an LoD run, not only will the ZB at the stand be pretty useless and the LoD runner won't be able to deal with any splits, but both of them are also going to be less efficient because they have to have the tools to run and stand monk on already cramped monk bars.

Dual LoD at the stand is bad and LoD runners are bad for ladder play.

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

when i don't need dual LoD, or if i'm faced with heavy shutdown and want to keep one LoD away from the stand. ZB monk is the only one that kinda fits in a dual runner setup.

unless of course, someone come up with a RC monk runner...

Dual runners are pointless, you dont have to run with your flagger and you could double ran (this used to happen all the time and now hardly anyone does this anymore)

Maybe you and twicky_kid should sit down and invent a me/mo RC runner..

moriz · Nov 06, 2007, 05:15 PM // 17:15

illusion of haste
clumsiness
conjure nightmare
auspicious incantation
conjure phantasm
rc
mending touch
ether feast

your turn. invent me a ZB warrior runner.

Kyp Jade · Nov 06, 2007, 05:31 PM // 17:31

lol, i remember well over a year ago in We Hate Pve (before they rt spiked, i wasnt there in that era) we tried a mesmer runner, it was great for killing flaggers when the battle was elsewhere in the 1v1, but I cried all the time about how bad illusion of haste is

tyrant rex · Nov 06, 2007, 07:33 PM // 19:33

legion of losers had an rc mesmer , that is all

Thomas.knbk · Nov 06, 2007, 08:57 PM // 20:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

illusion of haste
clumsiness
conjure nightmare
auspicious incantation
conjure phantasm
rc
mending touch
ether feast

your turn. invent me a ZB warrior runner.

exept for the details that it has zero survivability, zero NPC healing power, is completely owned by rending touch, and its offense is pretty much outhealed by troll unguent, it's pretty decent.

TheOneMephisto · Nov 06, 2007, 09:01 PM // 21:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas.knbk

exept for the details that it has zero survivability, zero NPC healing power, is completely owned by rending touch, and its offense is pretty much outhealed by troll unguent, it's pretty decent.

Aka only run it on burning. Or against straight 8v8 builds.

Farin · Nov 06, 2007, 09:29 PM // 21:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

LoD runners are bad for ladder play

Unless it's dual champ pt weekend

moriz · Nov 09, 2007, 03:52 PM // 15:52

so um... LoD got ether renewal'd.

monk metagame is now gonna change dramatically. whether this change is good for the game or not remains to be seen... so far though, i'm not sure if it's all that positive.

with the buffs to glimmer and WoH, there are new options open. while neither are gonna completely substitute for the loss of LoD, it might be possible to make do for a little bit with these:

12+2 heal, 9+1 div, 8+1 prot, 5 ins, 1 dom
divine spirit
channeling/power drain
glimmer of light {e}
infuse health
dismiss condition
protective spirit
deny hexes
hex breaker

11+2 heal, 10+1 prot, 10+1 div
word of healing {e}
reversal of fortune
dismiss condition
holy veil
guardian/shielding hands/shield of absorption
spirit bond
return
dark escape

what i'm trying to do here is to have divine spirit and channeling/power drain fuel the improved glimmer of light, thereby somewhat substituting for the loss of LoD. with it's bigger heal, 1 sec recharge, and divine spirit and channeling/power drain fueling it, it might just be enough to hold a team together.

so, let the theorycrafting begin.

Brian the Gladiator · Nov 09, 2007, 07:53 PM // 19:53

The monk meta will definitely change since the November 8th skill (for lack of a better word) balance.

Monk back-lines will no longer use [skill=text]Light of Deliverance[/skill] in GvG because of the two second cast.

Some people believe that the new meta will involve one monk that is primary healer using either [skill=text]Glimmer of Light[/skill] or [skill=text]Word of Healing[/skill] and a primary protection monk using either [skill=text]Shield of Deflection[/skill] or [skill=text]Restore Condition[/skill]. Neither of these monks will be using a party-wide heal spell. To compensate for this, many guilds will begin using an elementalist flag runner with [skill=text]Ether Prodigy[/skill] and [skill=text]Heal Party[/skill].

The only problem with this is that it weakens the runner's defensive abilities. This is a huge problem to splitting and will force the team to send more back to defend against the split.

Some people, instead of weakening their runner, will switch to a [skill=text]Healer's Boon[/skill] monk and bring [skill=text]Heal Party[/skill] on it so that the runner can be a little more defensive. Again, there are down sides to this as well. Managing Energy will become rather difficult. Some monks will be a secondary mesmer and bring [skill=text]Auspicious Incantation[/skill] to use on [skill=text]Heal Party[/skill]. Others will simply use a [skill=text]Glyph of Lesser Energy[/skill]. The best choice would be the Glyph because that way, the monk wont have to devote attribute points to inspiration.

I think that, if [skill=text]Healer's Boon[/skill] monks do become meta, then this may change the mesmer class as well.

Instead of bringing [skill=text]Energy Surge[/skill] mesmers, you may begin to see more [skill=text]Power Drain[/skill] mesmers with [skill=text]Drain Enchantment[/skill] and [skill=text]Shatter Enchantment[/skill]. This way, the mesmer will be able to strip the monks enchantments and Power Block his Heal Party so that he loses all of his healing prayers skills, which is most of his bar.

As for me, I believe the best bars for monks are:

[skill]Glimmer of Light[/skill][skill]Guardian[/skill][skill]Protective Spirit[/skill][skill]Reversal of Fortune[/skill] Cure Hex [skill]Glyph of Lesser Energy[/skill][skill]Aegis[/skill][skill]Heal Party[/skill]

[skill]Restore Condition[/skill][skill]Guardian[/skill][skill]Reversal of Fortune[/skill][skill]Mending Touch[/skill][skill]Spirit Bond[/skill][skill]Holy Veil[/skill][skill]Aegis[/skill][skill]Return[/skill]

I just figure, I really want a good runner that can stop splits and I also want a monk that wont get completely shut down by mesmers and will have good energy management. Glimmer of Light now has a 1 second recharge, which means, if you have that skill, you no longer need an infuse health because you can just use Prot Spirit + Glimmer + RoF + Glimmer on a spike.

So, that is my 2 cents on this issue...

Note: Cure Hex doesn't work as a skill tag.

Byron · Nov 09, 2007, 08:15 PM // 20:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

so, let the theorycrafting begin.

RoF
dismiss
WoH
Pspirit/Sbond
Guardian
Veil
utility (Mo/A=return) (Mo/E=Aegis)
utility (Mo/A=dark escape) (Mo/E= Glyph lesser)

x2

ala the good old Blessed Light days. Herd a splittable monk wus gud.

Brian the Gladiator · Nov 09, 2007, 08:22 PM // 20:22

If your going to make up monk bars, make sure you thought of everything.

Byron and Moriz, infuse health is meta for a reason...

Note: Glimmer monks don't need it because glimmer is high power heal, 1/4 sec cast, and 1 sec recharge. Just spam it and RoF on spiked target and it is just as good as infuse.

TheOneMephisto · Nov 09, 2007, 10:06 PM // 22:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byron

RoF
dismiss
WoH
Pspirit/Sbond
Guardian
Veil
utility (Mo/A=return) (Mo/E=Aegis)
utility (Mo/A=dark escape) (Mo/E= Glyph lesser)

x2

ala the good old Blessed Light days. Herd a splittable monk wus gud.

And what is going to keep you from blowing up to mass conditions or hexes?

dies like fish · Nov 09, 2007, 10:08 PM // 22:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian the Gladiator

If your going to make up monk bars, make sure you thought of everything.

Byron and Moriz, infuse health is meta for a reason...

Note: Glimmer monks don't need it because glimmer is high power heal, 1/4 sec cast, and 1 sec recharge. Just spam it and RoF on spiked target and it is just as good as infuse.

No
Glimmer heals for 108 at 14 healing, which is like another RoF. 2 RoF's do not save a spike.

-Pluto- · Nov 09, 2007, 10:50 PM // 22:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by dies like fish

No
Glimmer heals for 108 at 14 healing, which is like another RoF. 2 RoF's do not save a spike.

QFT. The fact that Glimmer basically is both a rof and a gift is the only reason to run that skill. It lets you run more utility. Running RoF AND Glimmer defeats the purpose.

We tried a glimmer + woh backline, actually.

Shielding hands
Glimmer
dismiss
deny hexes
guardian
Spirit Bond
Divine Spirit
Aegis

WoH
RoF
Dismiss
Veil
Soa (or perhaps another guardian)
Prot Spirit
Infuse
Aegis

Think we might have had dwayna's on the WoH monk instead of SoA, which isn't needed when you have WoH imo, but then, I was the glimmer monk. We ran it with an e-prod runner, so the idea is that both of these monks is very easily splittable. Only ran that glimmer bar in a few matches, two of which were with a terrible flag-stand HB monk, but with the WoH monk, it seemed to work pretty well. Not sure if it's better than just running another WoH or an RC though, so I'll probably have to try some other options out.

moriz · Nov 09, 2007, 11:26 PM // 23:26

either way, it's pretty easy to see that WoH is now absolutely amazing on a hybrid monk. even at heal = 9 - 11, the healing is quite amazing.

i've been seeing HB+heal party monks being run, but i believe they are rather fragile and the build can explode in your face in a hurry.

i've also seen party healing unloaded onto the eprod runner again, except with water hexes and snares instead of blinding flash. this opens up the possibility of splittable monks as an option to counter condition overload, and the runner does not get pwned by mending touch gankers. however, sin splits can potentially pose a big problem.

Brian the Gladiator · Nov 09, 2007, 11:55 PM // 23:55

The fact of the matter is, with RoF, Glimmer, and Prot Spirit being 1/4 sec casts, you can cast them all very quickly on spikes. And yes, the combination of the three can definately stop a spike without infuse.

moriz · Nov 10, 2007, 12:30 AM // 00:30

you're assuming that the spike can be caught by prot essentially. if that's the case, prot spirit and spirit bond will do the trick.

glimmer and rof does not replace infuse.

Div · Nov 10, 2007, 01:10 AM // 01:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

glimmer and rof does not replace infuse.

But word of healing will! :O

Melody Cross · Nov 10, 2007, 05:41 AM // 05:41

^^Actually, I think HBoon and heal Other replace infuse at stand in many 8v8 designed teams. The buff it got is just...massive. Use HOther for the spike catch is pretty darn cheap once you've factored the cost to heal the infuser post spike, and it avoids catching the infuser at half health when he infuses a feint. If nothing else, HBoon is good for mistake prone monks. But the way its specced now, I can see more prot skills getting specced into the build in the future. Taking the party heal out the build would be gutsy, but would allow room for Prot Sprit and Aegis, with Dismiss and Cure Hex for utility clearing.

For most "spikes" Prot Spirit and SBond are what you need to catch them. HBooned Heal others could show a change in that. Catch the first spike, then prot the monks when the frontline moves from the feint to hit the backline or the real target.

Thats going to be a question of area awareness as much as anything else. Will the monks prot the feint and negate it early, or panic, and have to handle damage control as a result. Mostly, I'm thinking out loud here, but feel free to add to my personal brainstorm.

Glimmer...its not what people think. RA, TA, AB. These arenas, Glimmer will really shine. Its a HPrayers version of ZB.

The surprise will be in how meta answers this question: will we soon see a return of the splittable backline? 4v4 splitting with solo monks and some midline support hybrids might make a powerful weapon if the flagstand team can be hardened enough to survive 4v6 or 4v7. The power self-heal WoH now gives will be a deciding factor in answering this question, I think. Solid heal when you want it; ZB when you need it. The more I think about it, the more I like the WoH change for increased tactical builds.

GGs

wren e · Nov 10, 2007, 07:18 PM // 19:18

On the HB-HP monk your going to have divine spirit so take deny hexes so that you have the ability to clear 3 hexes for 5 energy every 12 secs instead of cure hex on that character.